Switching from semi-auto to revolvers

[Min]

I had been leaning toward semi-auto handguns as a personal preference, but I find loading the mags at the range to be a chore.

So, right now I am moving into revolvers (at least for awhile). Less ammo capacity, but much quicker and easier to load.

A trip to the gun show today yielded a Smith and Wesson 640 .38 Special J-frame, and a model 29-2 with 6" barrel that would make Dirty Harry proud.

I'm beginning to think a small revolver would be better for concealed carry if you ever have to reload several times (who knows - SHTF scenario here). Because once you run out of loaded mags in an extended gunfight, you're out of luck.

My new used J-frame looks like this, without the Rosewood grips, but it does have smooth wood round butt grips):

 

[Phantom Warrior]

My two cents...

Because once you run out of loaded mags in an extended gunfight, you're out of luck.

The same is true of revolvers. In the situation you mentioned, where you are out of reloads, are you assuming that you will have a box of ammo in your back pocket? Or loose rounds in a cargo pocket? I'm not trying to criticize, but I'm confused. That seems like it would be clumsy and easy to spill. Especially because fine motor skills tend to go out the window in a stress situation.

Furthermore, magazine (or speedloader) for magazine autos are usually a better deal. Most magazines hold 10 rounds or more. Some less, most notably 1911 magazines, but even those at 7 rounds will beat most revolver speedloaders. Your average revolver speedloader will hold 5 or 6 rounds. For say 20 rounds you are talking a magazine in the gun and one reload vs. a full cylinder and 2 or 3 speedloaders. So you get the same amount of ammunition for less "clutter." Would you rather stick one mag in your back pocket or have 3 speedloaders rattling around?

For an extended situation in your house or vehicle where you have extra ammunition available a revolver might not be a bad idea. But there is a practical limit on the amount of ammo you can carry on your person(unless you are into backpacking). In my opinion it easier to carry a given amount in magazines than speedloaders.

 

[Min]

I have a coin purse with a zipper that can hold a lot of .38's. It also fits in my pocket (jacket). This is in addition to the spare speedloaders.

My argument is you can load individual rounds in a revolver much more easily than a magazine when you're crouching behind a car (for example). Also, what if your magazines become inaccessible?

 

[Handy]

What if your bullet purse becomes inaccessible? Same problem.

To add to what PW said, why not just choose a pistol based on the cost of mags? A decent 9mm or .45 that has many surplus mags available for $5 to $10 each would make for a ton of "bullet storage" units.

On the pricer side, five 20 round Beretta mags is 2 full boxes of ammo in a more compact form than in the box. Mags are almost as space efficient as loose rounds.


Revolvers make sense in a number of regards for survival, but mainly in the range of loads and quality that they'll tolerate.

If you plan to have a supply of factory ammo, though, 9mm is going to be the most efficient round in a number of regards. If not, .22.

(But we realize you just want a revolver excuse. Have at it. They are often more accurate than typical recoil operated autos.)

 

[Min]

I just get tired of making my fingers sore at the range loading those magazines!

I don't use magazine loaders because well, I wanted to become proficient using my hands to load those mags.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Now you got me thinking....

First of all, I'm impressed by the promptness of your reply. Anyway, how many rounds is "a lot"? I agree with you that it's easier to load a revolver with individual rounds. However, going back to my earlier remarks about mags, your average auto w/ one reload is 20 rounds right there. Thirty if you carry two reloads. As I recall, .38s are pretty long rounds and it seems like stuffing that many into a coin purse would be difficult.

Secondly, what kind of situation are you refering to where mags would be inaccessible?

Before we get into a really long discussion over this I'd like to say I don't disagree with you theoretically. Revolvers are easier to load. It just seems to me that practically it seems like for the same round count it is less clumsy and more compact to go with an auto w/ preloaded mags over a revolver w/ loose rounds and/or speedloaders.

 

[Powderman]

Min,

It all comes down to what you prefer, and what you can shoot the best.

What are you better with? The revolver, or the auto?

Are you willing to spend the time to master either one? Or are you really good with one or the other--or both--right now?

On the plus side, you don't have magazines to lose or get dented with a revolver. Full moon clips are just as fast in the hands of a trained shooter as magazines.

Also on the plus side, you can get REAL creative with a revolver. Plus P's in a good .357 revolver can end a fight real quick. Also, if you feel the need, you can even get revolvers in .45 Colt (not ACP), downloaded to manageable levels that will put most defensive rounds in the dust. Even .44 Specials in a Magnum will pack a terrific punch.

On the downside, you are limited to (at the most) 8 rounds in .38 or .357. Revolvers are usually bulkier than automatics.

So, what do you want to do?

 

[Min]

Well, I don't know if I'm better with the semi-auto or revolver. But with my new guns, I'll find out.

I'm decent with my HK USP Compact 9mm at 10 yards. But all I got are 10 rounders (mags) with it, and frankly it's a pain to load them, as well as time consuming.

What I mean by having the mags inaccessible is: (Murphy's Law at work here) - say you only had one spare on you and the rest are in your car and you are separated from your car? Or, you leave your spent mags where they fall as you get a fresh one to load?

The scenario I'm thinking about here is more like if you're alone somewhere, say traveling cross country or camping, and you run into trouble (Mexican drug runners at the border come to mind).

All I'm saying is while revolvers use those round speedloaders, they're not dependent on them as semi's are on mags (to work, I mean).

 

[Handy]

But revolvers are dependant on bullets. If you can plan to have bullets WITH you, you can plan to have more than one mag with you. The mag body itself doesn't take up that much extra space.

For instance, 100 rounds of 9mm will fit in a 50 round box if the styrofoam is removed. But four 20 round mags takes up just a little more space than that, and a fifth is stored in the gun. Now look at how much space 100 rounds of larger .357 ammo takes up, even with 6 stored in the gun. You haven't gained anything, space wise, and given up reloading speed and pistol capacity.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

What Handy said...

Thanks Handy.

 

[Min]

Where are these 20 round mags you guys are referring to? What gun is this for?

I'm not talking about carying around 100 rounds of ammo on your person. I mean, my point is based on having the ammo on you the same time as you having the gun on you.

My little (tactical) coin purse can hold around 15 cartridges, and they slip real easily in my pants pockets. Loading 5 rounds into a J-frame will not take that much time, and I'll be more likely to have that coin pouch with me at all times than 3 or even 2 spare magazines (especially 20-rounders!)

 

[HadEmAll]

Would you be more comfortable running into "Mexican drug runners at the border" while equipped with a 10 (or more) shot semiauto and 1 spare magazine or a 5 shot double-action only 2" barreled revolver and a whole pocketful of loose rounds? I know which I'd prefer, except I'd have at least 2 spare magizines. Those 10 round mags are a lot easier to use and function better if you only put 9 in them by the way. I have a S&W Centennial and it's a delightful little revolver, but every semiauto I've got (11) will outshoot it both accuracy-wise and capacity-wise. They also reload faster, carry better and have more "oomph". Sometimes when I feel like living dangerously I do carry the Centennial or a SP101 with 3 speedloaders, but not very often, and never in the boonies where I might come across some dregs of society.

 

[Handy]

20 round Beretta mags are common. So are 19 round Glock mags. I was just citing a round number.

Now you're talking 15 rounds in a pouch and one 5 round revolver. How is that smaller than a Glock 26 with an extra 10 round mag?


All I'm saying is, for the space that any number of .38 ammo takes up, you could have had the same number of 9mm rounds AND the magazines to contain them. The only limiting factor is how many mags you want to buy.

But they take up the same carry space, and are harder to loose in the dirt.

 

[Min]

Anyway, thanks for all your comments. While I still love my semi-auto's, I'll give my revolvers a spin (pun intended) for a while.

 

[popbang]

Min, take a look at MTM Case Gaurd Wallets for additional carry of ammo they are flat and keep ammo organized. And I too am a revolver carrier. The semi-automaics have their strong points, but to me nothing beats a revolver.

 

[JohnK]

The scenario I'm thinking about here is more like if you're alone somewhere, say traveling cross country or camping, and you run into trouble (Mexican drug runners at the border come to mind).

All I'm saying is while revolvers use those round speedloaders, they're not dependent on them as semi's are on mags (to work, I mean).

Interesting scenario that makes good movie or message board material, but really very rarely happens in real life if you're not a police officer or border patrol agent. I'm sure you can point to an article where it did happen, but it's not something that happens with any frequency to Joe Public.

I'm a revolver fan, my most commonly carried gun is a 5 shot 38 Special, and when heading for the mountains I still carry a revolver just in a larger caliber. In the situation you describe I'd bring a 9mm with a couple spare magazines. And when I take a road trip to visit the in-laws I carry a 9mm, sometimes in addition to the revolver but the high capacity 9 always comes with.

You might want to keep a Rem 870 or Mini 14 behind the seat in the truck for those drug runners, any handgun is a very poor second to a rifle or shotgun.

 

[Min]

I live in Texas, and that scenario I described is actually not that unheard of if you're in Big Bend National Park, which lies at the US/Mexico border. There have been accounts of campers/hikers running into unsavory Mexicans there.

 

[JohnK]

"not unheard of" and "have been accounts" doesn't makesit sound like like a common occurance. Do you know how often things like that actually do happen? TV news reports can make the most rare occurance seem commonplace. Does the Border Patrol warn people against hiking or camping in that area?

But even so we'll assume it is likely to happen. In that case you're trying to decide which handgun to bring to a gun fight. You should be looking at what rifles/shotguns to bring with.

If you're thinking what gun you should have with while out hiking, and this scenario is likely I still think you're better off with a high capacity semi auto than with a revolver.

It would certainly be faster to reload a revolver from loose rounds than a semi auto, but as others have said it's very easy to have an extra 15 or 20 round magazine in your pocket. 35 or 40 rounds with one quick reload beats 35 or 40 rounds and 6 to 8 reloads.

Revolvers are great tools, they're just not the best one for the job if the job is some kind of extended gunfight with multiple opponents.

Practice well with whichever gun you choose.

 

[Onslaught]

I don't use magazine loaders because well, I wanted to become proficient using my hands to load those mags.

Pardon my ignorance, but... why?

Of all the things one should be proficient in the semi-auto world... loading the rounds into the mag is WAAY at the bottom of my list, right down there with changing the grips I use an HKS mag loader at least half the time, especially at the range. No point in wearing out the thumbs performing a task that I will NEVER have to duplicate if ever in a desperate situation. If you take the time to bring more ammo for the mag you have, why not just bring more ammo in another mag!

Unless you're a REAL pro, a semi-auto is FAR easier to reload than a revolver. And as for it being easier to reload a revolver under a "stressful situation", just ask the poor FBI agents in the infamous "Miami Shootout".

We watched the obligatory (and very interesting) reenactment in Criminal Justice back in college. After the reenactment, there were interviews with the surviving agents. One of them commented that after he'd expended his 6 rounds, he reached in his pocket for more ammo, and he dropped some of the ammo on the ground. He also recalled that, since it was so SLOW to reload, he was thinking as he was reloading "should I just reload 2 or 3 rounds? Should I take the time to put all 6 rounds in the chamber?

Give me a reliable semi-auto and 2 spares ANY DAY, especially against those "drug ruggers"

 

[Peter M. Eick]

JohnK,

As another Texan who has worked in the Big Bend country and along the Rio Grande border I can add this.

"Not Unheard of" means you can hear them talking in your campsite at night and taking your food and supplies right off your tent while you are in it.

"Not Unheard of" also means having them take the water and food off your pickup while you are 25 feet away fixing a fence.

"Have been accounts" means that you have personally filed reports with the Border Patrol, NPS, and Sheriff about illegals taking everything that was not nailed down on your crew for food, water and for general theft.

Having faced some of these "folks" one on 10 or so, I have never had a problem, but I also take resonable percautions and let others know where I will be and radio in often.


Frankly, it is a much bigger problem then most take it to be.

Finally comment. I do believe it is a felony to have a handgun in the national parks, but do not quote me on this.

 

[JohnK]

Thanks Peter. If it's a genuine threat then it's certainly something to prepare for, I haven't changed my suggestions for what I would do to prepare for it, though.

My questioning how likely it is stems from hearing a great many people in other parts of the country concerned about things like that, or the infamous "roving gangs of street punks" when they live in areas where the chances of being struck by lighting are greater than actually coming across such a situation.

To Min: If it is likely you'll be in this situation I suggest you practice shooting at multiple targets at different ranges with both your revolver and semi auto to see which works best for you. Try to do it under some pressure, a friend with a stopwatch if nothing else, to see how long those revolver reloads take under even that minimal stress.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Johnk,

Working out of Laredo on the ranches and back country between McCallen and Eagle River the question is not if you will be confronted, but how many times per day. You could guarantee that any food or water, or "useful" tools you left on your crew at night will be gone in the morning. During the day you will probably see between 5 and 15 illegals during the course of the day. Usually in packs of 3 to 5. As evening approaches and it cools off that is when the encounters happen.

What you have to watch for is being confronted when you are open gates, closing them or repairing fences. Your best bet is not a confrontation, and to have some water and food to give them. Also keep a radio at hand, and report in very often during the "trouble time".

Hope that helps.

 

[jc2]

Min has a valid point, and I have proved it several times. Most recently, my brother and I spent an afternoon in the pasture plinking and "stump shooting." He had a G32 with four hi-caps, and I had a Model 28 with a couple of speed loaders, a speed strip or two and quite a bit loose ammunition. By the end of the day, I shot considerably more than he had largely due to my ability pop a couple of empties out and put a couple of fresh rounds in, and not having to stop to reload magazines. In other words, I easily maintained a much greater sustained rate of fire with a revolver than he was able to with an automatic (and I didn't have those embarassing lulls when all my magazines were empty. It really works that way. (He still like autos, though.) I might add my Model 28 was considerably more accurate than his G32--particularly at longer ranges--(and I don't shoot single action).

I generally mirror his experience at the range. Once I empty my magazines, I generally switch to my revolver and have lot more fun--while getting better sustained practice.

 

[Geech]

How often do these encounters turn into day-long gun battles, though? Assuming it's even legal to carry in that area, how often will you fire the pistol, let alone fire more than 20-30 rounds?

 

[Doc]

min:

A couple of observations.

the fight will last ONLY as long as YOUR ammo.
carry as little as you think you will need.

you need practice to learn and become comfortable with any (loading) technique.
The FIRST time I shot 1500 rounds my thumb was sore from loading Glock mags.

you live in TEXAS! THINK RIFLE, especially in any unsavory neighborhood.
(I am not a legal sholar, but I recall you can openly carry a loaded rifle anywhere)



"the purpose of a handgun is to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have put down in the first place"