Switching from semi-auto to revolvers

[yotehunter]

This topic should have been called WHAT IF, I can almost 100% guarantee that unless you practice so much that you load in your sleep I can drop a mag and insert a new one faster than you can dump rounds insert and dump a speedloader into a revolver.
All this under pressure to boot. Dont get me wrong I am a revolver person, just for different reasons.
When I do carry my Sig 220 I also carry 2 extra ten round mags in a belt pouch. Thats 30 rounds. You must remember that you wont be reloading the mags during a fire fight. You cant carry enough ammo to cover every senerio that can be dreamed up.
I have loaded my revolver under pressure and believe me I would much rather have only had to worry about installing the mag.
I know some are very fast at speedloading but are you one of them. If the bullets are flying over your head can you honestly tell yourself that you can fumble around with rounds in a pouch and load them quickly or would it be quicker to dump a mag and insert a loaded mag.
Im not bagging on anyone just do the math. Have someone time you I think you will be surprised at the time difference.

 

[Admiral Thrawn]

I agree with everything yotehunter said.

Revolvers are fun range/hunting guns, and can be used for self-defence, but I would much prefer to use semi-autos with additional mags rather than fumbling around with six shot revolvers and speedloaders during a firefight.

 

[popbang]

I notice many people are discusing fumbling and droppingrounds when loading a revolver under pressure. Let's look at the same problem with an auto, you can fumble and drop the magazine. this can cause a problem as now you have retrieve a needed part of the gun. If the magazine, for whatever reason, got damaged in the fall and will not work properly you arew no out of luck. Or if the magazine is out of your reach it is over for you.

Under pressure bad things are going to happen with anything you are depending on.

I won't say that revolvers are better or that autos are better as each has their strong points and weak points.

 

[Handy]

Popbang,

As you point out, one can drop either some of your loose rounds, or one of your spare mags, so isn't that a wash.

Realistically, mags will not become inoperable even if dropped six feet. Once on the ground, they are easier to retrieve, and help protect the bullets from dirt.


I'm still not seeing the advantage. Loose revolver rounds are no easier to load, do not take up less space than loaded magazines, and are much slower.

I just can't imagine a situation where a better fighting chance would be had by keeping your reloads loose, rather than in a magazine.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Guys,

You can't carry a rifle and still work on a fence or close a gate. It is going to have to be a handgun. Also, if you are going to have it with you, you need it concealed because the brush will rip the crud out of it really quick.

Frankly, I was perfectly comfortable with my little Beretta 84 and 14 rounds. That worked great till one day after a particularly BAD day, I decided 380auto was not enough for some 4 legged critters and moved to a G20 in 10mm. Mags are expensive, but I only carry 3. One in the gun and two on a carrier.

Geech, You asked a question about battles. I think it would be prudent not to publicly (this is a very open forum) discuss the details and nature of encounters.

 

[popbang]

Handy, I guess I wasn't clear. It seems to me people are forgetting that bad things can happen with a magazine also. I did not mean to say that carrying loose rounds was in any way better just that bad things will happen when you don't want them to. And I agree an auto mag should not be damaged by being dropped, but things happen. You may disagree and that is fine. I just feel people need to be in perspective, anything that can happen to a revolver can happen to an auto and vice versa.

 

[Handy]

I'm right there with you. It's a tie in most respects.

Given that, what would you do, and why?

 

[RON in PA]

Back around 1870 or so the powers that be in the US military adopted a single-shot Remington rolling block pistol because their tests had shown that the single-shot was better than revolvers of that day for sustained fire from concealed positions. Based on this I suggest that you sell all your repeating handguns and get a single-shot.

Who on earth needs more than 5 shots for a person-to-person self-defense situation?

All the world's military and most police have gone to the semi-auto because amongst others one of its chief vurtues is ease in reloading. And that's reloading under stress because of the hand-to-hand nature of loading a pistol.

For God's sake get a mag loader, what a lame excuse.

 

[Correia]

If you want to carry a revolver, by all means do so. More power to you. They make fine weapons.

But don't think even for a fraction of a second that loading single loose rounds into a revolver is in any way shape or form superior to a magazine.

If you want to even come close to the speed in which you can reload an auto, you need to use moon clips or a speed loader. Either of which is much bulkier than an auto.

I would hazard a guess that 99.99% of shooters can reload an auto faster than a wheel gun. That remaining .01 percent is made up of guys like Jerry Mickulek (sp?). And NOBODY can single load loose shells into a revolver faster than you can load an auto.

I have a .45 that I can have 42+1 rounds on my person with only 3 magazines. That is my game gun. My serious .45 has an 8+1 capacity, and I usually carry one spare 10 round magazine. So that is a total of 19 rounds on my person. If I'm in that much of a prolonged battle that I run through 19 rounds, I'm A. Screwed. B. Running. C. Making my way to a rifle or shotgun.

As for loading magazines, with practice you get good at it. Or buy more magazines. I have something like 15 single stack 1911 magazines laying around.

If you want to really test your gear, enter it into a competition and put it to the test.

 

[popbang]

Myself, I carry 6 rounds in a belt slide, 12 in an ammo wallet, and 6 in my revolver. I am a firm believer in having ammo in two spots so if I do drop or become unable to retrieve it I have some. For my .38 I carry a speed strip in a pouch and again 12 in an ammo wallet.

 

[Handy]

I'm right there with you. I carry a mag in the gun, one in a belt pouch, another in a pocket and the last in the kangaroo fold of my tighty-whitees.

I tend to carry a 20 round mag in the underpants because chicks dig it.

 

[Gerald McDonald]

Min, the hi cap mags for a USP are pretty expensive, I never would spend the bucks it took.

As far as running in to roving drug runners in Big Bend, the chance of running into anybody from the Mexican side decreased after 9/11. Border Patrol now has a station in Castalon (in the park) and even the Mexicans who worked in Lajitas got busted in the rush to zip up the borders. Many have been sitting in jail for a few months after trying to cross the Rio Grande to go to their jobs.

You will need to carry concealed in the park as a loaded handgun is a no no in the fed park system. The round count you carry will not be as important as your willingness to use what ever firearm you have. Drug runners/mules will not want to run the chance of being interdicted by LEO while trying to steal whatever you may have in your backpack or doing an assault style invasion of a backpackers camp site and aliens will more than likely not be armed. If you ever watch the death reports in Big Bend you will see you have a better chance of dying from falls than violence.

Carry what your comfortable with and youll do fine. I have been all over the park carrying nothing but a NAA mini or Beretta Tomcat.

Gerald

 

[DonGlock26]

Even if you can match a semi-auto in reload speed, you still only loaded 6-speedloader, 2-beltloops, or 1-speedstrip compared to 13 everytime with my G-23. Reloading under stress is difficult and I won't even go into wounded officer drills. Anyone watch the movie "Glory" when they are learning the difference between range shooting and combat shooting?

 

[Penforhire]

People have commented on the issue of dropping ammo in the dirt. But nobody mentioned, do you really want to trust your life on ammo in that pouch that is banging around loosely for who-knows-how-long and how hard?

No way I'd carry it loose. Speed loaders, strips, moonclips, mags, etc. also help protect your rounds.

I own autos and a revolver (and a pump). I can't see how anyone would suggest reloading a typical revolver is faster than reloading a typical automatic. Just look at the motions involved. And I'm assuming that if I'm shooting that empty mag gets dropped to the ground without a second thought.

The other side of the coin is, even with my most reliable 9 mm auto and varied factory fodder I get a malfunction more than once per 1,000 rounds (average is closer to one in 500). So, despite all the malfunction clearing drills we do, for self defense there is a lot to be said for a revolver and just pulling the trigger again.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

One of the first things to go in a stressful situation is fine motor control. That's why reloading a handgun with a detachable magazine is the easiest way to do so in a gunfight -- because the degree of motor control required is less than any other method.

If you're going to carry a revolved (and I do), you DON'T want to carry loose rounds in a change purse (or any other container). If you don't want the bulk of a regular speedloader, then use Bianchi Speed Strips. They lie flat in your pocket and you can load up to two rounds at once.

I choose to carry a revolver for several reasons, but ease of reloading is not one of them.

 

[English John]

SO predictable

Two Options:
1) You are wrong, you GOTTA carry what I like
2) Carry what YOU like.

I have seen this on so many posts where someone asks a question, and all the answers degrade to everyone's personal choices for the gunfight they hope will never happen. The "Street Survival" seminar years ago showed us a video of a gentleman who challanged the local PD that had just switched to autos. He used one of their old S&W K frames to do a VERY nice job on a target at their range at a timed 12 shots in under 7 seconds, and 18 shots in under 12 seconds. Groups were less than 6 inches. He did it with speedloaders and a LOT OF PRACTICE, but then you did say you go to the range.
Remember; Jim Cirrilo won a lot of gunfights with a revolver (yes, he probably could have done better if he trained with an auto, and I hear he uses one now, but he won), and the first rule of a gunfight is HAVE A GUN.
Carry what YOU like, and practice a lot.
The rest of you can now turn on your flamethrowers.

 

[HadEmAll]

English John says:

"I have seen this on so many posts where someone asks a question, and all the answers degrade to everyone's personal choices for the gunfight they hope will never happen."

1. Min didn't ask a question at all. He just said he's switching to revolvers. Read it again if you need to.

2. What did you expect, 2 pages of "By god, your right!"?

 

[WonderNine]

I'd much rather have an auto 9mm.

When I carry a fullsize it's a Browning Hi-Power with 1 in the chamber and 15 round mag in. And one or two spare 15 round mags.

That's 31-46 rounds of ammo compared to more bulk with the revolver with 15-18 rounds (with two speedloaders). Not to mention the revolver makes more noise and generally is not as accurate (double action vs. single action automatic) and reloads slower.

The one thing the revolver has going for it is reliability and that is why I am still a revolver fan.

 

[VaughnT]

Min, I understand where you're coming from as relates to reloading high capacity magazines. I was just down at the range with a buddy and his G23, and, man, did I get tired of loading his magazines!!! Seriously folks, it was like a never ending pit and seemed to take forever.

I'm used to my nice Wilson 47D magazines which hold a gentlemanly eight rounds. While I might have to reload more often than someone shooting a high-capacity mag, it sure beats reloading just one of those beasts!

It's really weird to note that I actually got tired of shooting his G23 while I was actually shooting it. I'd be pulling the trigger and wondering, "when is this bugger gonna quit!"

Now, if I was in a gunfight, I would still rather have my Colt 1991 with its enemic 8+1 capacity and a reload or two on my belt. The barebones fact is that I'd be running for dear life long before I needed to load a magazine from a box of ammo. If I'm not dead in the first volley, that pistol in my hand is simply a tool to facilitate and expedite my disembarkation from the field.

 

[pinetree64]

I'm going the opposite way. I sold my 44mag last month and plan to buy another 1911. After I started shooting my Kimber compact I really grew to love the SA trigger. My 629 had trigger work done, but it couldn't compete with the 1911.

Revolvers have their place. I like to carry revolvers when hunting, fishing, hiking... I have an UL M-85 Taurus snubby. I carry it in the woods with snake shot and hydrashocks. This gun sleeps in my wife's nightstand. I just find the semi's more fun at the range and better for action pistol. I shoot them more acuratly and quickly than a DA revolver.

 

[Feanaro]

I've never been in a firefight but I think it would be easier to reload a semi-auto than a revolver, even with a speedloader. That's just me, I like reloading semi-autos more than revolvers.

The best reason, IMO, to carry a revolver is that if .by some nasty stroke of luck, you have a jam you can simply pull the trigger again and as long as the next one isn't a dud it will fire.

 

[Soap]

Carry whatever makes you feel confident. If C.R. Sam carries a revolver, good 'nuff for me. If you carry an NAA Mini as a primary, good for you! (just don't advocate that to others ) If you feel fine with the revolver and a limited number of rounds, then by all means, carry away.

As for being tired of mag loading, why not stop buying guns and just buy more mags for your primary auto platform?

 

[Marko Kloos]

The main disadvantage of the revolver, slow reload speed, is negated by carrying a backup gun. In 95% of all SD scenarios, I won't need more than the six beans in the wheel. For those 5% where I do need more than six, I won't bother with a speedloader. I'll just do a New York Reload.

 

[SapperLeader]

The other side of the coin is, even with my most reliable 9 mm auto and varied factory fodder I get a malfunction more than once per 1,000 rounds (average is closer to one in 500).

Penforhire - Out of Curiosity what Semiauto are using that you get malfunctions that often? Particulary with your best ammo? Reason I ask is that I have had only three malfunctions out of 5000-8000 rounds with my xd-9, two with cheap brown bear ammo when I first got it, and one with a brand new magazine that I was still breaking in. I definitly agree with you about the refire capability of the revolver, but I would be concerned if my auto gave me that much trouble.

 

[Handy]

The main disadvantage of the revolver, slow reload speed, is negated by carrying a backup gun. In 95% of all SD scenarios, I won't need more than the six beans in the wheel. For those 5% where I do need more than six, I won't bother with a speedloader. I'll just do a New York Reload.

This also neatly avoids the dropped mag/firearm problem.

Instead of carrying a Sig 245 and 2 extra 6 round mags, one simply carries a 6 shot revolver....



...and 2 extra 6 shot revolvers.