Taurus Class Action Lawsuit

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basicblur

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Just ran across this the other day - there is a class action lawsuit against Taurus covering:
PT-111 Millennium; PT-132 Millennium; PT-138 Millennium; PT-140 Millennium; PT-145 Millennium; PT-745 Millennium; PT- 609; PT-640; and PT-24/7 pistols (including the “PRO” series of each of these models). The settlement does not include Taurus G2 model pistols.
https://www.tauruscartersettlement.com/

That's about right - I took a chance and bought a Gen. 2 PT145 Millennium PRO back before everyone else started shrinking their guns (10+1 rounds of 45 in a small, good feeling gun was hard to pass up).
I knew I was taking a chance and got burned - has been to the range exactly one time, and when I couldn't figure out where the heck the rounds were going, it became a safe queen (no way I'd CC since I don't know where the rounds were going).

Since there's no fix for the "defect", it looks like the best I can do is get $200 for the gun (paid $310 for it) and I also bought 2 additional magazines.
I can exchange it for one of their Millennium G2 models, but I really have no need for it these days as there are now a lot of downsized larger caliber guns, and the G2 apparently takes different magazines, so what the heck do I do with the two extra magazines I bought?

Still trying to figure out what route I'm going on this one.
 
I'm not surprised. The PT-111 was the worst gun I've ever owned (and I've owned a couple turds).
 
I have a 24/7 Pro which I could make claim for on this suit. Making lawers rich is not my goal in life, and I am happy with my Taurus gun just as it is.
 
basicblur wrote:
... class action lawsuit against Taurus covering: ... PT-145 Millennium ... The settlement does not include Taurus G2 model pistols.

...

I took a chance and bought a Gen. 2 PT145 Millennium PRO ... I knew I was taking a chance and got burned - has been to the range exactly one time, and when I couldn't figure out where the heck the rounds were going, ...
Click to expand...

The class action lawsuit covers a safety defect in the pistol that would allow the striker to be released even with the safety engaged. That is all. The lawsuit and related settlement have to do with providing a remedy for this safety defect. It has nothing at all to do with the pistol's accuracy or the shooter's ability to hit a target.

The G2 series are excluded from the settlement because Taurus changed their design to ensure the striker cannot be released if the safety is engaged. Since they don't have the defect, they are not covered by the settlement. So, excluding the G2 series pistols does not mean you got "burned". Since your post says you bought a PT145 Gen 2 pistol, you would have no claim against Taurus under the settlement.

I have a Taurus PT111 G2 pistol. It has a very long, very heavy trigger pull that was difficult to manage. From what I read on the Taurus owner's website, the PT145's trigger is similar. Until I spent some time with the pistol and got the hang of how to grip the gun while pulling the trigger, my shots seemed to be going off in random directions. Once I got the grip mastered it became reasonably accurate.
 
It seems like there is always a lawsuit against someone in the gun industry. Maybe this one is deserved being that its a safety issue, but I find half of them to just be people hoping to get money.
 
The class action lawsuit covers a safety defect in the pistol that would allow the striker to be released even with the safety engaged. That is all. The lawsuit and related settlement have to do with providing a remedy for this safety defect.
Click to expand...
I'll have to read back thru the lawsuit - when I did my initial scan it appeared the reason for the lawsuit was there are at least 2 cases of the gun going off when dropped - seems Taurus did not drop test those models.

The G2 series are excluded from the settlement because Taurus changed their design to ensure the striker cannot be released if the safety is engaged. Since they don't have the defect, they are not covered by the settlement. So, excluding the G2 series pistols does not mean you got "burned". Since your post says you bought a PT145 Gen 2 pistol, you would have no claim against Taurus under the settlement.
Click to expand...
Now I'm (one of us?) is cornfused - AFAIK, Generation 2 (as my PT145) is not the same as the "G2" pistol (the current line being produced).
When they say the G2's are not covered, I'm assuming they're talking about the current models being produced and not Generation 2 of the various models in the suit.

AFA not knowing where the rounds are going...thanks, but I don't think it's me.
When I retired, I hauled all my pistols out to the range - was knocking down plates pretty rapidly with all of them (SIGS, S&W, Colt, HK, and maybe a few more brands) except the PT145.
I moved to the short pistol range and darn if I never put the first round on paper - kept moving closer to the target and still nothing on paper. It was getting dark, so I packed it in figuring I'd haul it out to the range later to troubleshoot (been sitting in the safe since then).

AFA triggers...I grew up on DA revolvers, so all the naval gazing about triggers you see (especially with a lot of new shooters) doesn't bother me - I'm used to long trigger pulls.
Heck, my dry fire practice with my bed gun (SP2022) in DA involves a 12 lb., long trigger pull.
 
Blew thru the lawsuit again - it sez:
The lawsuit asserts that these alleged safety defects may cause some Class Pistols to unintentionally fire with the safety in the “on” or “safe” position when the trigger is pulled and some Class Pistols may unintentionally fire when dropped or bumped. The Taurus Companies stand by the Class Pistols and vigorously deny all allegations of wrongdoing and liability. The lawsuit does not involve Taurus G2 model pistols.

One cannot tell from the language whether there are one or two "defects" or design failures.
I knew about the the safety problem from way back - the lawsuit does not specify whether the dropped guns going off are necessarily related to the safety.

And per the language in the suit, I'm assuming G2 does not refer to Generation 2 (as my PT145 is) but rather the current G2 line.
 
I have a second generation PT-145 Millenium Pro, not the G2, and I love it, and love the trigger. I have had it for several years, competed with it, put several thousand rounds down range (it eats whatever I ask it to) and is my daily carry. I find no problem with it.
I did have feeding problems when trying to use 24/7 12 round magazines(not the pistols fault).
PtT145wammo.jpg
 
ontarget said:
Well, I happen to love my G2 PT111. And nobody paid me to say that.
Click to expand...

Mine is just a PT111 Millennium Pro. NOT G2. (which I'm sure is fine, just never had one)
Thousands of rounds from the cheapest junk you can find right on up to Gold Dot +p+.
Not ONE single failure. I even wash it in the dishwasher (not the mag) and oil it. Brush the barrel out when needed. That's all.

It hits where I shoot.
 
We discussed this safety issue five years ago in this thread:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/taurus-24-7-oss-mishap.557528/#post-6893411

It is sad that Taurus let it go to a lawsuit instead of doing a recall, was this the reason for the recent management change at Taurus?

I'd like to hear follow ups from people who've sent back their pistol. I've a couple that qualify for the replacement, none have seen heavy use but they have performed well. I learned of the defect with the safety early on, I'd like more info on the "fire when dropped" issue, as this would make me send mine back.

A quick read of the settlement suggests they ship the replacement gun to the FFL of my choice, This would entail transfer fees. I know they can send a replacement gun direct to me -- Charter Arms has done it for my 9mm Pitbull, Century Arms did it with my recalled Galil.
 
hdwhit said:
I have a Taurus PT111 G2 pistol. It has a very long, very heavy trigger pull that was difficult to manage. From what I read on the Taurus owner's website, the PT145's trigger is similar.
Click to expand...
PT145 with DAO trigger is different than Millennium Pro PT145 with SA/DA trigger. Mil Pro PT145 always fires with SA trigger unless first pull does not fire then it becomes DA.

I have 10,000+ rounds through my Mil Pro PT145 and it has been reliable and accurate, especially feeding 200 gr LSWC reloads without issues. Even though I am a Glock fan, it replaced my G30 with smaller grip that my wife likes.

G2 line replaced previous models and based on what I have read, I would gladly trade my PT145 for a G2 model. But since I live in California and Taurus stopped selling semi-auto pistols, I will keep my PT145 until I move out of state to trade for G2 or consider trading for .357 Mag revolver if it fails before I move out.
 
wally said:
I learned of the defect with the safety early on, I'd like more info on the "fire when dropped" issue, as this would make me send mine back.
Click to expand...
As did I. I saw the videos showing how you could bypass the safety by riding the trigger when you flip the safety up / on, but that didn't bother me that much as I'm not going to ride the trigger when I engage the safety.

Like you, I'd like more info on the fire when dropped issue. AFA my particular gun:
1. Has some big time problem as I couldn't get rounds on paper even at short distances (the barrel seems to be tight). I figure this problem can be corrected if I ever get it back to the range.
2. I can live with the safety issue as I'm not going to ride the trigger when setting the safety.
3. If there is a problem with the guns going off when dropped...well, that may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Still trying to find out more info on this issue.

When chasing links about the recall back, I ran across this one - reading the comments section is interesting. One fellow says his will fire with the safety on and has been back to Taurus once for repair with no change. One fellow says his 24/7 PRO (purchased 2008, with over 4,000 rounds thru it) fell out of his holster in 2014 and landed between his legs. He knew better than try to catch a falling gun, but was sweating bullets with a gun falling between his legs. When it hit the ground, it discharged and blew out his tibia (a few inches over and it would have been thru his chin / brain). He says he has a lawsuit pending, and there are 11 other reports of similar incidents with one death.
http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2015/07/taurus_agrees_to_voluntary_rec.html

For all those folks that chime in stating they've never had a problem with their gun I have to ask; have you dropped it while loaded?

You never have a problem until you do, and then it may well be too late...
 
This is very old news that has been discussed extensively on every gun forum. The G2 models were introduced as a fix to this problem. I guess the old saying is true. There is always someone who didn't get the memo.
 
MAKster said:
This is very old news that has been discussed extensively on every gun forum. The G2 models were introduced as a fix to this problem. I guess the old saying is true. There is always someone who didn't get the memo.
Click to expand...

This! And as ive said before in other posts that because the pt145 is discontinued Taurus has no replacement option. They will only pay a max of 150 to buy back the gun. Crappiest situation and it's due to the worst cs from Taurus.
 
Yo Mama said:
that because the pt145 is discontinued Taurus has no replacement option. They will only pay a max of 150 to buy back the gun.
Click to expand...

Huh? That is not true. Maybe there are no .45ACP options yet but you can trade it for the G2 9mm or .40S&W. I've also heard (not verified) that the 24/7 line is available for trade. That includes a .45ACP.
Here is the wording from the settlement site"
  • Certain calibers of the Class Pistol models are not available in Taurus G2 model pistols. You can review the calibers currently available in Taurus G2 model pistols at http://www.taurususa.com/pistols.cfm.
Taurus site info:
PT24/7 G2 45ACP COMP DA/SA DS 3.5' 12 & 10+1 BL

As i read it, the 24/7 is a G2 pistol.

I don't know what you are claiming but you don't seem to know the facts.
 
This is very old news that has been discussed extensively on every gun forum. The G2 models were introduced as a fix to this problem. I guess the old saying is true. There is always someone who didn't get the memo.
Click to expand...

From the https://www.tauruscartersettlement.com/ webpage:
On July 22, 2016, the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida approved the Settlement. However, three Objectors have appealed the District Court’s decision to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit. Since these Objectors have appealed the District’s final approval order, the claims filing process will be delayed. The Objectors (the Appellants) have filed their initial briefs. The 11th Circuit deadline for the initial briefs of the Appellees (Plaintiff & Defendants) is January 5, 2017.

Your idea of "very old news" is suspect. The issues with the safety on these pistols is old news, but the status of the settlement is not and seems its not 100% settled yet. It certainly will be actionable new news when/if Taurus actually starts exchanging pistols.

As I said I wouldn't send mine back if it was only the issue with the safety that I posted photos about in that 2005 thread I linked above, but if they can fire when dropped I will definitely send mine in! I've used mine as a "truck gun", but won't anymore now, as I certainly don't want something that could fire in a random direction in the event of a collision!
 
MAKster said:
This is very old news that has been discussed extensively on every gun forum. The G2 models were introduced as a fix to this problem. I guess the old saying is true. There is always someone who didn't get the memo.
Click to expand...
You're right - I didn't get "the memo".
With every gun I own, I either send in any documentation like warranties, registrations, etc. or either do it online. I've heard squat from Taurus (Ruger handled my LCP recall well).

Sorry, but I don't have time to hang around gun forums for my news, and I sure as heck ain't hanging around any Taurus forums, especially after my experience with my one and only Taurus (one and done).

I told folks a long time ago that Taurus had some good ideas, but they needed to stop introducing new products until they could get a handle on their current offerings.

I didn't even realize they were under new management until researching the recall - maybe that's the reason they are under new management. If so, I hope the right the ship, but it will be a looooooong time before I'd even consider another Taurus.

BTW - I have a relative that's the gunsmith at a local shop. Back when I bought the Taurus, he really looked disgusted and seemed to be considering beating me about the head, so I knew going in I was taking a chance.

Fool me once...
 
If you do a google search you will see internet posts discussing the safety issue with the PT111 as early as 2009. The G2 was introduced to fix the problem in 2013. So yeah this is old news.
 
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