Taurus to take lead in "Authorized User" Firearms

[jrhines]

From the editor's file in the Feb American Gunsmith...
Tarus is in league with the NJ Institue of Tech and Metal Storm to develope and market a "firearm that will instantly and reliably recognize authorized operators of the equipment". They will use the NJIT Dynamic Grip Recognition biometry-authorizing technology and the Metal Storm O'Dwyer VLe Technology. This VLe system is "entirely electronic, (using) precharged barrels (with several) projectiles that are fired by electronic ignition."
Tarus says it will continue to produce its regular line of mechanically operated guns.

How 'bout that sports fans???

 

[Neal Bloom]

This and having a Taurus revo fall apart in my hand is why I don't buy Taurus anymore. Really did like the gun before it broke.

 

[Lennyjoe]

We have been down this road before. Bout 2 months ago to be exact.

 

[Wildalaska]

Boycott em!

Wilddefendingthe2ndamendmentmodeAlaska

 

[nico]

if new jersy is so confident in this new technology, why don't they allow law enforcement to be the first ones to use it and demonstrate just how wonderful it is. After all, you wouldn't want a bad guy shooting a cop with his own gun.

 

[Pendragon]

I work in Biometrics.

I am implementing them at the worlds largest financial institution.

Biometrics essentially come down to "probabilities".

There are currently no biometric security methods that have a 100% accuracy.


I get into my PC at work with my right thumb print - I have very clear prints and I know what I am doing - still, it works only about 97% of the time for me - sometimes I have to make a second attempt.

Same with iris scans and facial scanners.

I fail to see why a grip metric would be any different.

 

[Leatherneck]

I fail to see why a grip metric would be any different.

Oh, I think we can be certain that "grip metrics" would be different. Smaller, more portable, exposed to rougher handling and environmental extremes like dirt, water, temp extremes, rough handling, etc. And the power supply would have to be batteries. Ever had a battery go flat? They'll be different alright--in every way imaginable they'll be worse!

TC
TFL Survivor

 

[Highland Ranger]

I will never buy a Taurus product and encourage others to do so as well.

 

[seeker_two]

Outlaw tech geeks will get SO rich because of this technology....

 

[mrapathy2000]

if new jersy is so confident in this new technology, why don't they allow law enforcement to be the first ones to use it and demonstrate just how wonderful it is. After all, you wouldn't want a bad guy shooting a cop with his own gun.

good luck finding a guinee pig for that one.

imo the technology is appealing having a gun that works only for the good guy. but will it be hackable most likely tons of kids out in the world that hack stuff like xbox and various other electronics. whats to stop someone from inserting a chip so the gun automatically breaks when the local pd wants it too so they dont get hurt. what if the local pd turns into the local oppressors can you say sol? though if its a high point you could use it as a club or blunt instrument with compact version.

 

[TarpleyG]

Taurus, may you go down in a flaming ball of bankruptcy ****!!!

GT

 

[foghornl]

If I recall correctly, NJ ALREADY exempted the police & security forces from having to use 'smart guns'.

 

[Preacherman]

Folks, don't blame Taurus for this - or Colt, S&W, Ruger, and all the others who are working on "smart gun" technology. Whether we like it or not, this is being driven (hard!) by politics, not necessity. Sooner or later, a "smart gun" WILL hit the streets, and will then be mandated for use by at least one or two states (think California, NJ, probably Massachusetts, etc.). If the gun companies want to survive, they will HAVE to be able to produce a smart gun - otherwise, their markets will be closed to them.

I totally agree that this is a BAD IDEA, and will produce a host of complications (and probably some dead firearms owners, whose "smart guns" turned dumb on them in a SD situation): but we're not dealing with logic, rational thought, or the desires of the shooting public. We're dealing with the politicians who are driving this development for their own ideological reasons. Don't blame Taurus for politicians!

 

[WT]

Taurus ain't the only guys interested. The US Army is looking at it.

"The US Army TACOM-ARDEC is investigating smart gun technologies, "Biometrics", in particular Dynamic Grip Recognition (DGR), as a user only system that recognizes the human unique characteristics of a specific individual. The Government is interested in building on dynamic grip recognition experience by incorporating this DGR into the handgrips of an M9 pistol. The Government is planning on negotiating sole source with NJIT under the authority of FAR 6.302-1(a)(2)(ii) Only One Responsible Source."


See US Army Picatinny Arsenal link.

http://procnet.pica.army.mil/cbd/RFP/03Q0428/03Q0428.htm

 

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

It's hard to understand why Taurus would participate in this. As has been said, the minute a saleable model is offered to the public States like NJ, Md, CA will immediately outlaw the sale of any firearms lacking the technology. That can't help Taurus's bottom line.

Time to boycott Taurus products and write them to let them know why as well.

 

[sturmruger]

Do we have any small business owners here??? If we do I think they would support Taurus for making a sound business decision. Someday there is going to be money to be made in smart gun technology, and they have to start developing the technology if they want to be a strong force in market.

I can honestly say there is no chance that I would ever spend any money to buy a smart gun. There are some reliability issues that I would be concerned about. I can't imagine why anyone would want to boycott Taurus just because they are developing a technology you disagree with. Would it make sense to boycott Taurus for Developing a pistol chambered in .17 HMR?? SMART guns are just like any other gun, you pull the trigger and most of the time it shoots out a bullet. We do enough boycotting around here. Let start boycotts for reasons that make sense.


P.S. I do not own any Taurus firearms nor am I a big fan. I am supporting them purely for their sounds business decision

 

[Lennyjoe]

It's hard to understand why Taurus would participate in this.

If not Taurus, then someone else eventually would.

Time to boycott Taurus products

So if it was Springfield or Colt that came out with this do you think everyone will quit buying their 1911's?

Go ahead and boycott Taurus. More guns for me at a lower price.

Personally, I dont see it happening for quite a long time. The gov will try them out, find them unreliable and then the company that developed them will scrap the program. Thats about it. Taurus is just jumping at the opportunity to try the program out and see if it actually works. I wouldnt be suprised if the Gov doesnt give them some kind of financial backing to develop the so called "Smart Guns".

 

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

I can't imagine why anyone would want to boycott Taurus just because they are developing a technology you disagree with

I don't object to the technology itself. Something like it would be good for homes with small children as an additional safeguard to teaching gun safety.

What gets me is that it is already the law in NJ that once a single handgun with this technology is offered for sale, then all handguns must have it and none can be sold without it. The people at Taurus must be well aware of this since they are working along with the State of New Jersey and a State University in NJ to develop this technology.

This constitutes a sell out by Taurus worse than the Smith & Wesson agreement. The S&W agreement wouldn't have resulted in any gun bans so far as I recall.

I think it's time for a boycott of Taurus.

 

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

Personally, I dont see it happening for quite a long time. The gov will try them out, find them unreliable and then the company that developed them will scrap the program

I disagree. The Government in NJ will test this technology, declare it to be sufficiently reliable no matter what the actual results say, and then, as per the law already on the books, ban the sale of any handgun lacking this technology.

Do you really think it would bother the Government in NJ that this technology is unreliable? Or that once it's marketed 99% of handguns would immediately be made illegal to sell in NJ?

Once it starts in New Jersey, Maryland, New York, Illinois, California, ect. will follow right behind.

Time to boycott Taurus.

 

[Highland Ranger]

Missing the point . . . .

I am supporting them purely for their sounds business decision

You see, if we stood together and boycotted Taurus . . . . this would become a BAD business decision and they would abandon the project.

If we did the same thing for every other gun company who partook, the law would become irrelevant.

Wouldn't that be nice? Standing together?

The alternative is hang separately right?

No need to reference Smith and Wesson or Ruger . . . . I am for boycotting any gun manufacturer who does not fully support our Second Amendment rights and if that means they ALL go out of business, oh well . . . . free market principles dictate that we'd just get new gun companies who would respect and support our rights; they'd be the only ones that would make it.

IF we stood together.

Personally, I dont see it happening for quite a long time.

Wrong! Three years after the Attorney General of NJ determines that a Smartgun Prototype is "safe" and "commercially available" all new guns sold in NJ will have to have this technology. Taurus has promised a working prototype in a year (Jan 2005). And both those terms (safe/commercially available) are very subjective. Is a handgun that doesn't go bang when you pull the trigger safe? I say no - could get you killed but I am sure that to the anti's, that's the description of a perfectly safe handgun!

So I guess those of us in PRNJ have four years left to stock up. Except of course the LEO's who's lives are more valuable than ours who will be allowed to have real guns.

The bottom line is that many of you, who don't live here and don't believe it will happen wherever you are just don't care.

So call it what it is: You don't care - save the "I respect them for business reasons" nonsense.

And oh, by the way, when it happens wherever you are . . . . well I reserve the right not to care either.

Because after all, it doesn't really effect ME right?

 

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

So if it was Springfield or Colt that came out with this do you think everyone will quit buying their 1911's?

I would.

Go ahead and boycott Taurus. More guns for me at a lower price

And eventually all of them with unreliable smart-gun technology too. You can have them.

 

[Zach S]

I get into my PC at work with my right thumb print - I have very clear prints and I know what I am doing - still, it works only about 97% of the time for me - sometimes I have to make a second attempt.

You have very clear prints and yet it only works 97% of the time? I work in sheetmetal for a living, and work on cars for a hobby. At any given time, I have at least four fingers that are cut or burned somewhere. I wonder how well it would work for me...

 

[zorba]

Taurus has learned nothing from the S&W sellout, gun owners boycotted their guns and it forced them to sell! Taurus, can you hear me now?

 

[jimpeel]

Sigh ...

To repeat the repetition:

Smart gun technology is a Trojan Horse.

"Smart Gun" technology will build into firearms the defects that have never been inherent to firearms and have never been found to be so by the courts.

The future consequence of "smart guns" will be that the firearms manufactures who produce them will be sued into oblivion when they fail.

The firearms manufacturers who do not manufacture them will be sued into oblivion because they continued to manufacture inherently unsafe firearms which did not incorpporate the safety features of "smart guns".

Ya heard it here first, second, third, fourth, etc. etc, etc.

Actually, this is old news from 12-01-03. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52502

 

[jimpeel]

On Smart guns

Actually - we might wish to consider the real world when we talk about electronically personalized firearms, we will end up with specifications something like this ----

Must be able to be used with either hand

Must be able to be used with gloves

Must allow others to be permitted to use the firearm

Must not significantly increase weight or size of firearm

Must have 100% reliable power supply (if needed)

Must have extremely low rates of false negatives and false positives

Must not be affected by temperature, dirt, precipitation, oils, solvents, or perspiration

Must not be affected by calluses, abrasions, lacerations, or other tissue damage or variations

Must not work simply because owner is in close proximity to firearm when another person is using it

Must not be simple to cheat or remove

A temperature range requirement ( -50F to +150F).

Must not be disabled -
by immersion in water.
by exposure to and operation during inclement weather.
by proximity to magnetic fields such as those in industrial facilities.
by proximity to microwave sources such as transmission towers and ovens.
by proximity to radio and TV broadcast towers. (or the radio in LEO vehicles)
by proximity to AC and DC magnetic fields under high voltage transmission lines.
by NMP.

Must complete analysis and be in "go" mode in a maximum of 0.25 seconds after application of control digit.

Must be in "no-go" mode in a maximum of 0.1 seconds after control digit is removed.

How much wiggle are we going to allow the control digit to have on the sensor pad before this contraption says that is not the correct control digit?

Must be serviceable at local firearms dealer or armorer. Requirement to return to factory and have authorized user at factory is unacceptable.

What is the useful life of the electronic components that we are putting into this service? Are we going to measure service life by hours energized, or by shots fired, what?

Should we consider the service life to be longer if installed in a pistol chambered for 9mm X 19mm than we would for installation in a pistol chambered for .45ACP? What happens if we put these electronic components in a Contender chambered for .45/70 Gov't?

Must be capable of absorbing, without failing, the impact loading from a minimum of 10,000 shots.