Thanks for buying, storing and selling ammo, AR-15's, etc

[Queen_of_Thunder]

Let Loose the Rivers of Crocodile Tears.

Break out the kleenex.

Wa Wa Wa


The ammo is there you just have to put the effort in to acquire it. Granted its not like it used to be when you walked in and picked up whatever you wanted in whatever quanity you wanted. Got to work for it, stand in those lines, trade for it, reload it or whatever. Hey I got caught short too but 3 months later I've improved my situation.

 

[rgwalt]

OP: Thanks, I appreciate your refreshing look at the situation. I'm also tired of people who want "fairness" in the current situation, but won't accept that the only way that the playing field can be leveled such that everyone gets a "share" is through strict regulation. Do these people complain when the doctor down the street gets paid more? Where does it stop?

I stand in line for the ammo, and what I don't want/need, I sell or trade. It gets ammo into the hands of people who are willing to pay for it, but can't otherwise find it. There are quite a few people out there in that situation. They have the money and the desire, but not the time or ability to camp out at an Academy or Wal-Mart.

 

[joeschmoe]

So you are telling me that keep a insane price on supplies you are going to be in business?
It maybe a short term idea. but it is bad business practice.
How do you make money if you are not selling product? Yes it goes both ways but you rely on repeat business. Your LGS is better off than you think right now.

Insane? Too low or too high? Who says what's insane? The customer that pays it, or the guy who says he would but there is none to be had at any price? Market sets the price. Price controls always fail.


"to each according to his need" - Karl Marx

 

[joeschmoe]

My LGS has always had stupid prices on ammo. 10 years back at least. I still buy a few things from him every few years, but I have no fear he will go under. If he did, someone else would replace him. That might be a good thing.

I'm confident capitalism works. Rationing and price controls don't.

 

[BigBore44]

Or you drive business away from your LGS because they raised prices. And more people buy from Midway and Brownells because they didn't raise prices high. If one dealership has a truck for $75,000 and an online dealership has it for $50,000 where are you gonna buy? The LGS's that didn't raise prices, did so to keep their customers from going away with a bad taste in their mouths. That's not a failure in capitalism. If the LGS has product on the shelf with a super high price, and no one is buying, what aren't they doing??? Making sales and making money.

 

[Ignition Override]

Agsalaska:
To a large extent I can see most of y'all's points and maybe I was mistaken. Maybe everything right now is free capitalism (?).
Some of us are not business people and aren't aware of, or don't connect all of the many factors.

Queen of Thunder:
The novices with cash might only have one chance, fairly soon, to be prepared for a stronger, worse response from much of our govt. after a future 'event'.
Many of us were concerned back in '08-'10 about future commodity & fuel price influences on ammo prices/avail. later during retirement.

 

[joeschmoe]

Or you drive business away from your LGS because they raised prices. And more people buy from Midway and Brownells because they didn't raise prices high. If one dealership has a truck for $75,000 and an online dealership has it for $50,000 where are you gonna buy? The LGS's that didn't raise prices, did so to keep their customers from going away with a bad taste in their mouths. That's not a failure in capitalism. If the LGS has product on the shelf with a super high price, and no one is buying, what aren't they doing??? Making sales and making money.

And conversely, if one dealer has the truck for $75k and the other is "$50k - out of stock, no back order" where are you going to buy? Will you act surprised when the out of stock guy goes bankrupt and the $75k dealer expands?

As long as you guys are looking into your crystal balls into the future can you tell me how many of these stores go out of business because they had no product to sell for months? Or do only "gougers" go out of business in your future visions? MY LGS has been gouging for years. $40 for a 10 round Glock mag. He's still there. We're not friends. It's just business.

 

[Jlr2267]

I love these threads. Excuse me while I get some popcorn and another beer.

 

[Ignition Override]

joeschmoe: Do you mind a change of subject, regarding imported ammo?

I just hope that we will still have the 'normal' availability in the future to buy both Russian and Serbian (Privi) ammo etc.

Is there a specific website where members who are quite familiar with which 'EuroZone' countries will not only sign the UN Small Arms Treaty, but also comply with it (or not), often discuss it?
My vague impression is that Russia, and the eastern European countries might not (if they are worried about joining the Euro currency etc), but the neutral Swiss, with stockpiles of GP-11 ammo?

 

[joeschmoe]

I am 100% behind everything the OP said. I could not have said it better myself

OP: Thanks, I appreciate your refreshing look at the situation. I'm also tired of people who want "fairness" in the current situation, but won't accept that the only way that the playing field can be leveled such that everyone gets a "share" is through strict regulation. Do these people complain when the doctor down the street gets paid more? Where does it stop?

I stand in line for the ammo, and what I don't want/need, I sell or trade. It gets ammo into the hands of people who are willing to pay for it, but can't otherwise find it. There are quite a few people out there in that situation. They have the money and the desire, but not the time or ability to camp out at an Academy or Wal-Mart.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks those complaining and praising price controls/rationing are wrong. I doubt they would approve of them if the price control/rationing was working the other way; keeping the price high or rationing was preventing them from buying from a fully stocked shelf. "Sorry, we're fully stocked, but limit 2 per customer per day". Do you think they would holler as loud then?

 

[JoeDaddy]

isth

Apparently you have never actually owned a business. Extreme arguments look good on paper to those that use just logic or just emotion. The truth lies in between.

Academically you can raise prices to meet current market bubbles and that could seem like the correct decision but you will loose customers in the process and be left with a less successful business after said bubble bursts.

This is the best response IMO. I've owned a business for 21 years and you must treat your customers well if you want to stay in business. Its the golden rule. The LGS's don't just sell ammo, they sell many products.

I disapprove of those standing in lines early to buy up all the ammo and I'll express my displeasure by not purchasing your ammo on auction sites. Don't think you are doing us a favor by getting there early and buying all the supply- you are the problem and the reason this ammo crisis is so prolonged.

 

[Paper_Zombie]

As someone who lives paycheck to paycheck, I constantly have to turn my nose up at ammo prices, and take the increasingly rare deals when I can.

Can I buy .40's or .357's? Sure, but only defense rounds at $1+ per shot, no target rounds for $.50.

What does this mean? It means that, as much as I'd like to, I'm not taking any guns to the range, when I can't feel comfortable shooting even 50 rounds, much less 200 (what I used to do before all this mess).

Do I necessarily agree with the quantity limiting? No...but I can't complain too much when it means I can snag a box here and there, when work and off-time permits. Heh, I have a regular job...I can't stay up all night for a box of ammo and then try and explain that one to the boss lady when I'm late for work.

But I'm not angry...just biding my time until the day comes that I can decide I want to go the range tomorrow, hit up Wal-mart, and get two boxes of ammo to shoot up.

Pure capitalism, untempered by ethics, morality, or conscience, is kissing cousin to wickedness.

 

[Beentown]

"Pure capitalism" hasn't been in the US for quite some time.

 

[Paper_Zombie]

I disagree. Work for a corporation for awhile, and see if you don't start to believe that all they care about is the bottom line, not their employees, or their customers.

To see our cost on a product, vs. what we sell it at, simply sickens me. In some cases it's more than an 800% profit margin.

Corporations do as little as they can possibly get away with. Any little perks or incentives they barf up are simply some idiots idea of "dangling the carrot in front of the ass" to increase productivity.

 

[Jlr2267]

I disagree. Work for a corporation for awhile, and see if you don't start to believe that all they care about is the bottom line, not their employees, or their customers.

To see our cost on a product, vs. what we sell it at, simply sickens me. In some cases it's more than an 800% profit margin.

Corporations do as little as they can possibly get away with. Any little perks or incentives they barf up are simply some idiots idea of "dangling the carrot in front of the ass" to increase productivity.

Without a strong bottom line there are no employees, or customers...the bottom line must always be first priority.

Companies who treat their employees badly tend to have high turnover, which costs lots of money. My company values good employees and compensates handsomely to keep them .

 

[Teachu2]

My LGS of choice has been unsuccessfully struggling with this new reality since November or so. As supply tightened, they experienced shortages. Since January 1st, they have been hurting - the handgun cases are essentially empty, long guns are mostly consignments, ammo is rare. They can't even keep ammo in stock at the range.

I went in today to shoot, and wanted to shoot a G19 rental gun. You must buy ammo there for the rental guns. They had three boxes of Remington 9mm - 100 round boxes, $29 each. No more on the horizon. I offered to split the box and leave 50 for someone else - nope. Computer isn't set up for that...so instead of five more people getting to rent 9s, two more will.

It's hard to stay in a retail business without product. Which is better - having 9mm ammo for $20 a box of 50 or not having any at all? I bought several thousand rounds off the Internet in December and early January, but would have been happy to pay 50% more at the LGS, BUT THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY! They kept their profit margin low, and now they have no inventory.

I spent a dozen years in retail management, and a wise old business owner liked to remind us that "Nothing happens until you sell something." No truer words were ever spoken in a retail environment, and it's hard to sell something you don't have - at ANY price.

An added bonus for the antis is that this shortage WILL put some small LGSs out of business. They still have overhead, even when they don't have inventory. Gotta pay the rent, utilities, employees, insurance...

Had they raised prices to whatever the market would bear, and then lowered them to balance with supply when they get resupplied, some people would have been mad. Those same people are mad now because the LGS doesn't have ANY guns or ammo.

Raising prices and rationing during shortages (and especially runs!) aren't mean, unpatriotic, unfair, or stupid actions. They are survival skills for small retailers. WalMart won't lose most of their income if they have to wait a year for another shipment of guns or ammo - but most LGSs would.

 

[BigBore44]

Joe,
You made my point for me. If he wasn't a gouger, or a jerk (just making that clarification because it might not be the prices as the reason you aren't friends or shop at his store) you might shop there. But his prices leave a bad taste in your mouth. That's my whole point. Luckily my LGS has everything that I want and hasn't really raised prices.

My point isn't to make the shops that raised prices look bad. I don't care. My shop refused to. And for that (and their customer service) they will always have me as a customer. But the shops that did aren't really helping themselves. If they sell one box of ABC ammo for $100 that's normally $30 and then can't get anymore, what have they accomplished? Everyone who walks in looking for ABC ammo is going to inquire about price/availability. When the LGS says it's $100 and out of stock and Mid/Brown has it for $40 or even $60 whether in stock or not, they're probably gonna say screw the LGS and go through Mid/Brown. Just look at the praise on this forum for Midway/Brownells. There's a reason for that.

And I'm curious, how does price affect a LGS's ability to replenish stock?

 

[kwguy]

The main problem is a general shortage of product. It happens to any retailer when there is a shortage of some type of product. Think about gasoline / diesel during a bad hurricane, or something else along those lines. Smaller retailers just plain have a harder time dealing with it than larger retailers. If the supply shortage lasts long enough, they will go out of business. There really isn't a cut and dry fix for it. LGS's are in survival mode right now precisely because they are too small to be able to absorb too much for too long.

 

[mastiffhound]

CTD yanking AR and other MSRs like AKs and others is the reason for most of the hatred. Dick's(what's in a name anyways) did the same thing and they are now blacklisted to every self respecting gun owner. I feel no sorrow for both and will rejoice in their bankruptcy, they earned it. CTD even tried to mend fences with us by saying they won't sell to LE in ban states. A little late CTD. Backstabbing, bandwagon jumping, dirtbags. CTD can rot!

 

[Deer_Freak]

Ammo and gun prices are not my issue. It's the way that people panicked over something that had a 3% chance of happening.

 

[kwguy]

It's the way that people panicked over something that had a 3% chance of happening.

That's what usually happens with the majority of people: panic. An outcry for more gun control after a shooting is simply another form of panic. It's really human nature, and it's difficult for many people to remain calm during some type of fight or flight situation, which these types of situations really are, except on maybe a different scale.

If a business pulls a certain type of weapon off the shelf, that's their (bad) business. Let 'em. It's stupid, of course, but the market will correct itself when some other business picks up their slack, and they lose business or go out of business. Good riddance.

 

[BigBore44]

look, I understand both sides of the hoarding argument. And I'm not completely innocent. I bought about 150 rds of 308 and a 325 rd box of 22. But that ammo is for ME. I wanted it incase by some stroke of bad (really bad) luck the antis won. I didn't pay outlandish prices for it. And I wouldn't have. And now that the ban is toast we need to let the supply come back and the prices stabilize. Then we can hoard for half price. When this all went down I bought components to reload. Several dies. 500 rounds Starline 44 mag brass. 200 45-70 brass. 1000 bullets for each. Primers and powder. 1000 308 bullets. It wasn't hard or expensive. My total investment was maybe $500. Maybe. And I'm set for a long time.

And where did I get my stuff? Other than a box of bullets that I got online, I got it all from my LGS. And they still have plenty on the shelf. I could go drop several thousand dollars tomorrow there on more components if I wanted. But I have enough. And apparently most people around here do too. Because other than 22 (which have quite often) they aren't having to back order anything that ive seen. I guess I'm just lucky in that aspect.

 

[Agsalaska]

Understood ignition override. I certainly meant no disrespect. I enjoy your posts.

 

[Beentown]

Most of these post support what I have said many times...

The answer lies in the middle for most LGS. $999/1000 .223 is gouging and I wouldn't shop at a place that does that. $599/1000 can be the middle ground need to keep margins because of having less profit.

I hope no one expects all items to stay the same price during a bubble. The answer lies in between both extreme arguments. Where that place is depends on how much supply the LGS can get.

 

[Agsalaska]

As has been stated by a couple of posters, businesses that have not raised prices and are working thru this using rationing are actually contributing to the problem. Most of them nave no ammo. The LGS that I shop at has raised their prices substantially. They are busy and are selling a lot but still have ammo. I have not seen ammo at Academy since December. So who gets my business? The one that has ammo. If I and to buy 9mm tomorrow, Academy or Wal mart ot a couple of on line retailers are the last places I would look.

As for the corporations comment, most successful publicly traded companies understand the best way to a successful bottom line is treating your employees and customers well.

As for CTD-any time something like this happens their are companies that will go to the extreme. CTD is twice as expensive than my LGS who is twice as expensive now compared to 4 months ago. They also had their huge PR mistake. If they can sell it for that price than more power to them. But there are less expensive options with availability.