Traitors amoung us; Cop threatens to shoot OC in the head

[oldbear]

It is unrealistic to think police officers know every law but OC laws are easy enough to know and understand

I spent 27 years on the job, and most of the officers I worked with were very well versed on most major types of criminal Statues we were likely to encounter on a regular basis. In today’s political climate, the laws governing open carry and concealed carry should be well understood by everyone involved in the criminal justice field.

 

[zxcvbob]

With that kind of threat verbalized, wouldn't it constitute reasonable fear for one's life?

Were the OCs in violation of any law?

Did the officer have probable cause to threaten deadly force?

How far does a badge go to protect the wearer when he engages in criminal behavior?

The Supreme Court actually weighed-in on that: John Bad Elk v. United States

 

[gym]

People aren't perfect

 

[Sam1911]

People aren't perfect

That's the excuse I've used every time I threatened to shoot someone in the head. So far, we've all just had a good chuckle about the imperfect nature of man and they've declined to press assault charges...




No, but we get the kind of policing we demand. In a way it is our duty as responsible citizens to try to help the police be better and do the best job they can.

 

[atomd]

A while back I watched a bunch of videos like this on youtube. The common theme is guys open carrying while video taping, waiting for the cops to show up. The cops show up...the cop is usually overly aggressive and already doesn't like the guy since he knows right away the guy is waiting for a confrontation with him. The cop knows the guy isn't a threat the entire time but he plays along so he can flex his authority. Then the guy cites a whole bunch of laws and rulings and blah blah blah at the cop and says "am I being detained" 500 times. The cops usually ask for things the guy refuses to provide. Then they either let him go or a supervisor shows up and they let them go.

I don't think anyone really gains much from the encounter. The cop is going to do the same thing the next time.....whether he knows the laws or not. He knows the guy is looking for a confrontation with police and he is obviously going to accept the challenge and give the guy as much grief as he can. The cops know that they aren't going to get in trouble for harassing the guy so why not do it? Not much is going to come out of it. Even if the guy gets probed (or is that only done for "clenchers"?) and wins a law suit....he's only going to get paid with taxpayer money anyways...and no one will lose their job over it most likely. It's just business as usual.

 

[krupparms]

A bad cop should be arrested by the good cops! Not protected! Their activity should never be tolerated by anyone! That is the main issue here! As a military police that was what I was taught & did! Happy Veterans Day to all us vets!

 

[gspn]

I couldn't watch the whole thing...it was turning into a "lecture at gunpoint". Weird. I was most worried the guy might actually be shot by the fidgety female officer that was "covering" him. She looked nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

 

[Sam1911]

... the fidgety female officer that was "covering" him.

Oh what tangled webs we weave when we find ourselves in a hole and start shoveling like mad to save face in front of others. Especially... well?

 

[Hoppes Love Potion]

This was a horrible encounter, especially the threats, the lectures, and the interrogation. I also though the OC'ers reacted badly. Why did they keep answering the cop's loaded questions? "With all the crazy people in the world, I have to protect my community - is that understood?" What does that even mean? That the cop decided rights don't matter because of "crazy people"? And the cop called it "playing that game" when the OC stood on his rights about showing ID.

They should have said nothing, did nothing, answered no questions.

 

[DeadFlies]

No, but we get the kind of policing we demand. In a way it is our duty as responsible citizens to try to help the police be better and do the best job they can.

It's the kind of policing we are willing to pay for. Perhaps if we demanded a little more than a pulse, mustache and willingness to work a (mostly) thankless job for relative peanuts, we could have better cops in this country. But as it is, most cops are no better qualified to be cops than they are to be construction workers, auto mechanics or any other blue-coller, working-class loborers.

It's also quite hard to help the police be better at their job while being held at gunpoint by said cops.

 

[Sam1911]

It's also quite hard to help the police be better at their job while being held at gunpoint by said cops.

Well, assuredly right in that moment it not the time.

However, high pay or low, qualifications or not, we can hold the chiefs and local administrations accountable and "encourage" them (badger, demand, lawyer-to-death, etc.) to educate and discipline their force.

There is nothing inherent to being selected or hired as a police officer that says one will do their job correctly. It takes leadership and training. We have a say in what that leadership demands and teaches.

 

[tarosean]

All we have to do is convince the police chiefs and administrators to educate their officers correctly. There is ABSOLUTELY nothing about a 911 call they might have received which requires the responses of this officer.

I agree with that wholeheartedly... I do not agree with the manner he spoke with the men.. I do think, however, you walk around a major metropolitan area with a long gun you will get questioned by LEO in this day and age.

I still see kids running around my neck of the woods, with 22's, walking down the county roads.. No biggy, as it's relatively common place. Yet an hour down the road the landscape changes to the 4h largest city in the US and I'm sure most would have a dim view of the exact same thing.

 

[lobo9er]

Sam said it best HYPOCRITE. Also arrogant or over zealous maybe? Having a badge is alot of responsibility and isn't for making people have to listen to you on social and political matters. As soon as it was determined these kids were just walking around with armed and not breaking any laws, they should have been let go not held back to get a "talk'n to" and to buy time to find some possible crime to charge them with.

 

[xxjumbojimboxx]

Not well said at all actually. Gregory Casad was walking down a street in Port Angeles with two rifles wrapped in a towel and someone called the police. The police stopped him at gunpoint, discovered he was a felon, and arrested him. They discovered drug paraphernalia in his backpack. The case was dismissed. Why? Because the police did not have reasonable suspicion that there was a crime afoot and thus had no legal authority to stop him. That meant all the evidence they discovered was inadmissible. You see, it's not unlawful to carry a rifle in public.

The State tried all manner of law twisting to appeal the ruling in support of their officers, but the State Appeals Court disagreed.

If you have the desire to be educated, read the opinion here. If not, feel free to continue on in your ignorance.

I think you missed the rest of my post....

 

[zxcvbob]

So what happens if you find yourself in that situation and after a minute or two try to just walk away? (I bet it's not pretty)

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I knew the officer was joking about the female officer shooting him in the head. She looked like she was shaking, very nervous, and probably not that confident OR that good of a shot. In fact, throughout the stop, the talking officer was often in her cone of fire. He was probably bluffing, and hoped she did NOT have to pull her gun, or he was probably going to hit the ground. Head shot? Ha! Try hitting a balloon on a string bouncing in the wind from 5 steps away.

 

[Sentryau2]

Deleted

 

[316SS]

So what happens if you find yourself in that situation and after a minute or two try to just walk away? (I bet it's not pretty)

I have heard the following recommended:

Ask: "Officer, are you detaining me?" If the answer is anything other than "Yes" then state "I do not consent to this encounter, and I am going to walk away."

I believe it is a police tactic, formally taught or not, for legally consensual encounters to feel otherwise. If you are not being detained or arrested, the encounter is consensual and you can end it any time you want.

Disclaimer: Follow the officer's instructions at all times. If you believe she exceeded her legal authority, deal with that later.

 

[itsa pain]

I live in an open carry state but would never push my luck like these two did. There have been several incidents recently of cops being shot at and wounded so all LEOs around here are a bit jumpy, I could end up dead by parading around with a long gun.
Just because a person can open carry does not mean that a person should just to make a point.
IMO cop went way overboard in the lecture but I think these guys knew they were in for a hassle went they went for a stroll open carrying.

maybe if the cops in NM where you are from did their jobs and arrested all the illegals in your state which is one of the worst they would not get shot at. but as usual they let real criminals go while harassing regular citizens

 

[itsa pain]

Anymore police departments tend to recruit ex military who have been trained to look at civilians as all being threats. This is what they were trained to do when on patrol in what ever third world hell hole they were in. They have also become increasingly militarized with automatic weapons.

If the job is too dangerous then quit.

you mean after traveling 10000 miles and destroying roads hospitals sewer and water plants electric plants and machine gunning helpless people at roadblocks the people there who never harmed America had the audacity to want to harm them?? unbelievable

 

[itsa pain]

As someone who has done many a patrol in different third world hell holes I can attest that this is not how we are trained. We are trained to assess threats not just blanket everyone as a threat. In Afghanistan if I saw someone walking down the street with an AK-47 slung over the shoulder I would have done nothing. The civilians in Afghanistan are allowed to open carry without any problems. In fact they are less harassed by the U.S. military than our own citizens are by the police here in the states.

in Iraq and afghan we were told they were not free. meanwhile you could own any weapon you wanted and in Iraq if you had the money you could buy anything.

 

[Mainsail]

So what happens if you find yourself in that situation and after a minute or two try to just walk away? (I bet it's not pretty)

I have several times. Officer asks for my ID because someone reported my open carry. I ask him if he is detaining me, he says, "No but..." I politely wish him a nice day and walk away.

 

[itsa pain]

Well said PabloJ. OC for no particular reason is certainly going to allow one to meet new people and have interesting recorded conversations at the very least.

An interesting video. Walking around with a long gun but not going hunting or to the range? Hmmmm.


LEOs verbal warning about shooting beats getting shot tho' (the very recent 13 year old AK/airsoft tragic incident for all involved comes to mind).

Things could have gone south in a heartbeat and we all know it. (unstable person, P.O.d ex employee or spousal unit with a grudge, etc) I personally thought the Coppers did a pretty good job actually. EVERYONE went home safe and alive. A good thing.

Even tho I'd bet dollars to donuts the Coppers involved had a buttload of paperwork to fill out as a result of this encounter and have taken some heat ever since. Ask yourself, if you were the Copper, what would you do or say while you were in his shoes that day? (rhetorical in nature as I don't care but it's an exercise I go thru, like the "what ifs")

so not getting shot by a cop while doing nothing illegal is a good outcome. OK now I get it

 

[P5 Guy]

Former Sheriff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqrLRePn8Js

Jim Coats, former Pinellas County Sheriff during hearings on Open Carry Legislation a couple of years ago.
Telling the committee that he will order his deputies to draw on open carriers.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Let's get very real, guys. We all would WANT an officer to respond to a the report of a guy walking down our street with a slung AR or AK, just as a preventative measure, and like it or not, AFTER they get a call "of an unusual nature" (and such a sight is, unfortunately, too unusual today for most folks), they pretty much HAVE to go check it out. Did they need to "threaten" the guy, and they DID threaten him, if not by their own words, then by their aggressive posture, ....no. I have encountered LOTS of armed people and managed to engage them without raising the tension level more than it needed to be. I have wrestled a few guns from people, and drawn down on a few, and on the other hand, stood there talking like Andy Griffith (although my holster was unsnapped, and I could have ended a life in about 1/2 a second, if needed) and then let the guy on his way. As noted, no CRIME was in progress, a detainment was NOT needed, and the SUBJECT could have probably left legally. The "failure to comply with a police order" could have followed if the officer was not yet sure of the subjects intent, and I have also seen people locked up for MENTAL EVALUATION if the officer felt he was not "right" in the head, and could make a flimsy case to sign the guy in for observation. NOBODY wants that to happen, so a friendly short "compliance" of info, and an "on your way", is much preferred by both sides, so when slung, or armed, and making your "2nd Amendment" case on the street, be aware of that possible mental commitment. Not EVERYONE gets to leave after the 72 hours; they keep a few. Would that be you or me? Who knows?