Traitors amoung us; Cop threatens to shoot OC in the head

[HoploDad]

The founding fathers were probably in many "hot" situations when they first started protesting the crown. I'm sorry but if some of yall had been in the shoes of the founding fathers I fear we would be a Commonwealth under the crown today instead of a truly independent nation. Lord knows if the founding fathers were put in our shoes today they probably would have revolted against D.C. back in the 50s if not earlier.

Senor Rush, I'm gonna just say that good results are the most important thing, not being martyred to get those results.

Your Rosa Parks post was excellent, however she was not at immediate risk of being shot in the head by The Neenah Kid. Perhaps we have different styles, but I respect your right to have your'n!

Those boys got results within the letter of the law and good for them.

 

[HOOfan_1]

Times have changed, people.

Maybe, just maybe. Some people are trying to change them again.

 

[Warp]

Times have changed, people.

OC is just not a bright idea.

My personal first hand experiences, stretching back across 7 years now, disagree with you. Strongly.

Now, my only 'rifle' OC experience is across town from my car to the range and back once in awhile.

 

[316SS]

Maybe, just maybe. Some people are trying to change them again.

Amen, brother. Be the change you want to see in the world.

 

[stressed]

I was once pulled over, didn't notify the officer I was carrying, was going through my wallet to get my ID, he saw my CCW asked if I was carrying. I said "Yeah" he said what and I said "Just a little .380, front left pocket" I just didn't want to tell the LEO "I have a gun!" and spook him.

He then went on how I was lucky I was how I didn't get his .40 unloaded into me. He kept making references to "unloading his .40 Glock into me" and "emptying the whole magazine" numerous times. I was like "Whatever" and just thought the guy was a dick, because I have LEO buddies who are good guys.

One thing that pissed me off is the Jeep I was driving had purple heart plates - which identified that occupant as a wounded veteran - yet was still talked to like this - not that anyone should be talked to like this.

But it is what it is.

 

[Rushthezeppelin]

Times have changed, people.

Refer to my first post...#115

Your Rosa Parks post was excellent, however she was not at immediate risk of being shot in the head by The Neenah Kid.

I ain't saying its a perfect analogy but I think its close enough to show that OCers who go out knowing the strong likelihood of a police encounter shouldn't be excoriated for that, they are simply practicing civil disobedience partly in efforts to make these types of incidences happen less often by educating the public and the police.

 

[DT Guy]

Sharps-what makes the officers' right to safety trump the citizen's, in this case?

Say, for instance, that when confronted by two armed police while not committing any crime, and knowing of past instances when police have unlawfully attacked and killed armed, law abiding citizens, the citizens responded to the drawn weapons and threats of the police with deadly force? After all, the proper response to someone drawing a weapon and threatening to kill a police officer would be deadly force; why is it they are allowed to threaten deadly force against law abiding citizens, and we are not expected to respond in kind?

I'm sure you were a good cop; I tried to be a good cop, too. But the fact is that there's this built-in, "I'm entitled to be safe at anyone else' expense" that is integral to much police training today, and it's wrong. Just plain, flat out unjust.

Larry

 

[itsa pain]

I have a gut feeling that a lot of you guys that don't understand the precautionary intent of the police here in this incident or other incidents have never carried a gun AND badge at the same time. A certain portion of the order that our society enjoys is provided by the presence and the risk that those that we employ to wear the badge and go to the aid of those not ready or ABLE to protect themselves. I know most on this site can protect themselves quite well, but few of those would want to strap on a gun, go out into foul weather or hazardous surroundings on demand, and do it day in and day out to protect someone ELSE. I did it for 20 years, I was damn good at it, and I tried to always treat people with the same respect I would have wanted, and trust me, that came from my personal first hand experience getting arrested as youth for a gun related "offense". I was particularly disappointed in the officer during MY encounter, and I carried that awareness of fairness and justice that I would have wanted into my service. If you folks that think unsnapping a gun and being ready to defend is too much, try serving as a cop for a few years, and then come back and tell us how restrained you were when your butt was on the line. Anything less is just B.S.

My garbage mans job is more dangerous then police and a garbage man is more important to society then overstaffed overated and overpaid police dept

 

[itsa pain]

The founding fathers were probably in many "hot" situations when they first started protesting the crown. I'm sorry but if some of yall had been in the shoes of the founding fathers I fear we would be a Commonwealth under the crown today instead of a truly independent nation. Lord knows if the founding fathers were put in our shoes today they probably would have revolted against D.C. back in the 50s if not earlier.

Amen! Beautiful post

 

[Old Dog]

I'm returning to this thread against my better judgment.

DTGuy's posts are just a tad disingenous.

A cop's normal attire includes an openly displayed firearm. The average citizen's normal attire does not. A uniformed police officer is as much a target for those who would do him/her harm as the average citizen whose appearance does not indicate presence of a firearm.

We've had a few cops shot up here in my county in recent times. One trooper cold-bloodedly murdered at the beginning of a "routine" traffic stop ... two deputies shot by a deranged sex-offender/kidnapper while attempting a low-key intervention at a local Wal-Mart.

The presence of an openly displayed firearm, while not normally cause for instant alarm, is something to at least be curious about. I don't need to confront an open-carrying citizen in an attempt to ascertain the reason he's (she's) displaying a firearm in public, but I am going to be alert.

I'm sorry, but I really don't know any serving law enforcement officers who won't at least pay attention to someone openly carrying a firearm out to their local eateries or retail establishments. It just ain't the norm, and for some of us, our experience tells us that not everyone carrying guns around is simply exercising a right.

 

[Rushthezeppelin]

It just ain't the norm, and for some of us, our experience tells us that not everyone carrying guns around is simply exercising a right.

Curious but how often did you see criminals open carrying? Perhaps its just an old worn out line but it seems to me most BGs like to conceal their weapons more often then not. Granted this is my anecdotal POV with basically nothing to back it up other than thats the word on the grapevine. Figure it would be nice to get an actual peace officers POV in this situation since yall run into more gun toting BGs than most of us average folk. And I'm talking more about when you find one that they aren't actively brandishing.

Also with regards to OC long guns I'd imagine most people intent on causing mass harm are usually carrying it low ready and not slung on their backs. Also they generally don't trudge across town with said firearm but rather pull right up to their intended target. Does your experience back this up?

 

[xxjumbojimboxx]

I still think what's going on in the post is crazy...
I Do think that people should be able to open carry whatever firearm they please.
I also think its okay for an officer to stop that person and check them out. Just for good measure if you will...
I DO NOT think its okay for the ensuing 18 minute lecture to occur, and immediate use of intimidation to literally paralyze the man in question with fear that the officer was going to "shoot him in the dead"
That guy is afraid... Too afraid to be an LEO... His fear will make him react someday. This post would be entirely different if the man had the rifle at the ready pointing it about...

But he didn't.. it was slung, and hence, safe and legal. The cop took it as an opportunity to spray he authoritative juices when he has no right to do so.

This cop should be jailed for this occurance, and stripped of his badge, as it is the WRONG way to go about the situation, and hes more than likely to do the same thing to the next group of guys... god forbid someone goes to scratch their butt and gets shot in the head.

 

[Rushthezeppelin]

I also think its okay for an officer to stop that person and check them out. Just for good measure if you will...

By stop and check out, do you mean rolling by and having a few friendly words with said OCer or do you mean the pseudo detention that we see many times in these videos?

 

[csa77]

thin blue line.

at least he went home safe.

pick up that can, citizen.

show me your papers.



it seems like now days there is a large MINORITY of law enforcement that sees "citizens" as the enemy. maybe this has always been the case(cameras are everywhere now) or maybe this is yet another isolated incident.
ether way this type of thing seems to be happening more and more every day.

 

[9MMare]

With that kind of threat verbalized, wouldn't it constitute reasonable fear for one's life?

Were the OCs in violation of any law?

Did the officer have probable cause to threaten deadly force?

How far does a badge go to protect the wearer when he engages in criminal behavior?

Intimidation? Probably illegal in some way for a citizen with a gun. Not sure about cops but certainly unprofessional.

Worth reporting that behavior.

 

[9MMare]

I have heard the following recommended:

Ask: "Officer, are you detaining me?" If the answer is anything other than "Yes" then state "I do not consent to this encounter, and I am going to walk away."

I believe it is a police tactic, formally taught or not, for legally consensual encounters to feel otherwise. If you are not being detained or arrested, the encounter is consensual and you can end it any time you want.

Disclaimer: Follow the officer's instructions at all times. If you believe she exceeded her legal authority, deal with that later.

Not in this particular instance necessarily (altho possibly to goad them into action), police do use that technique to see if they can get you to incriminate yourself, kind of probing to see if a potentially guilty person's nerves or tongue will give them away.

 

[9MMare]

Not me.

I don't want law enforcement getting in the habit of harassing individuals who aren't breaking any laws.

x2 .............................

 

[Old Dog]

Of course, if you're carrying a slung AR-15 down a street in a town (with historically low crime rates) of 25,000 people, and you're surprised when the local gendarmerie stops by to check on you, I'd submit you're living in a parallel reality. (Or you are trying to instigate a confrontation, which, sadly, is not uncommon these days.)

Curious but how often did you see criminals open carrying?

Not open-carrying per se, but you'd be surprised how often observant citizens report folks with guns who turn out to have warrants or are otherwise up to no good ...

 

[frankenstein406]

Of course, if you're carrying a slung AR-15 down a street in a town (with historically low crime rates) of 25,000 people, and you're surprised when the local gendarmerie stops by to check on you, I'd submit you're living in a parallel reality. (Or you are trying to instigate a confrontation, which, sadly, is not uncommon these days.)

Not open-carrying per se, but you'd be surprised how often observant citizens report folks with guns who turn out to have warrants or are otherwise up to no good ...

So if someone is doing nothing wrong, one should assume the police will come and harass them?

 

[Old Dog]

Now folks are being purposely obtuse. Nowhere did I describe being "harassed." I merely suggested that if you're surprised that someone calls the cops, and there's a subsequent police response, when you're seen carrying a slung AR-15 down your neighborhood street or in front of your local Applebee's ... you are surely a resident of an alternate reality.

C'mon, now.

 

[frankenstein406]

Now folks are being purposely obtuse. Nowhere did I describe being "harassed." I merely suggested that if you're surprised that someone calls the cops, and there's a subsequent police response, when you're seen carrying a slung AR-15 down your neighborhood street or in front of your local Applebee's ... you are surely a resident of an alternate reality.

C'mon, now.

Well they have no obligation to respond or protect you.

 

[Rushthezeppelin]

Of course, if you're carrying a slung AR-15 down a street in a town (with historically low crime rates) of 25,000 people, and you're surprised when the local gendarmerie stops by to check on you, I'd submit you're living in a parallel reality. (Or you are trying to instigate a confrontation, which, sadly, is not uncommon these days.)

Pretty sure there are VERY few long gun OCers who are under this delusion. And once again will you excoriate Rosa Parks for trying to instigate confrontation to make a political statement? Do you hate all forms of civil disobedience or does this only apply to OCers because of big scary long guns scaring other people? Do others have more of a right to not feel scared than I have to exercise my constitutional freedoms (IDK about you but I interpret "bear" arms to me bear out in the open not conceal them). Guess we should just go along to get along...........ohhh wait thats how we got in the mess we are in largely today.

 

[readyeddy]

Following up on the Rosa Parks analogy. Her end goal, or one of them, was to end racial segregation.

So the OCers' goal is to end police profiling of people open carrying and to change people's attitude to the point where they no longer call the police when they see someone open carrying or to have the police not respond to such calls unless a crime is being witnessed?

Sounds like a nice place to live, but perhaps more is involved in the transformation than just open carrying as a means of civil disobedience.

 

[Rushthezeppelin]

Following up on the Rosa Parks analogy. Her end goal, or one of them, was to end racial segregation.

So the OCers' goal is to end police profiling of people open carrying and to change people's attitude to the point where they no longer call the police when they see someone open carrying or to have the police not respond to such calls unless a crime is being witnessed?

Sounds like a nice place to live, but perhaps more is involved in the transformation than just open carrying as a means of civil disobedience.

Well of course it takes alot more than that strategy to achieve our goals. This is just one prong in a multi-pronged attack against this social stigma. I never said OC was the end all be all of getting our rights completely restored.

 

[docsleepy]

If I were the gentlemen who had been threatened by the policeman, I would be talking to

a lawyer
the media
his supervisor.