Unecessary LEO

[trigun87]

OK I will start of by being straight forward this is part rant. First let me tell you a little about myself. I have no driving tickets, no misdemeanor's, felonies etc. I have a job working in the financial department of a very large service company. I'm 22 going on 23 black male, attend the local community college rent my own apartment etc. And obviously own and like guns hence me being a member here. I do cc on a regular basis where it is legal etc. I'm also very familiar with laws on several levels.

Me being pulled over about once every month for a ROUTINE traffic stop is almost the normal racial profiling.

To the point, I have not been pulled over since I have began carrying; so any way leaving work late with everyone else in my department we are all driving the same speed, on the same road and I get pulled over. Go figure.

I pull into a well lighted area cop takes 5 min or so to come to my car. The cop walks to my car flashed his flashlight in my face and said "Dawson". This is not my name and never has been. I'm no LEO but I'm fairly sure when your tag is ran they can see your name and car make, model etc. So the cop ask for all the standard stuff like license, registration, and insurance. I comply he goes back to his car, he stays there for quite some time. He comes back gives me my info and says sorry thought your were someone else (B.S.). So as I'm placing my license back in my wallet he sees my cc permit and ask do I have my gun on me? I comply honestly " NO I do not, my gun is in my glove box."

He ask me to step out of the car and then all the drama starts he goes into calling another car. He ask to search my car I gave permission he grabs my Glock 26, and him and the other cop start talking. Then he has the nads to ask me do I have a bill of sale. Now I've been discriminated against but this is ridiculous. To bad for them I keep the copies off all my gun purchases in my car just for these glorious moments. I provide the receipt this seems to only irritate the pair, they seem to be in a state of "awww" that I was able to produce such information so quickly. They then began talking again, one goes to his car and begins looking in a book I assume an law book The cop returns after a few minutes and they converse once again. The second car leaves.

The first cop returns with my firearm and says I'm free to go.

Now during this entire time I was never told why I was pulled over. I'm seriously thinking of calling my local internal affairs office.

I'm only one that has had to go threw this when being pulled over for legally having a gun in a glove box.

 

[ljnowell]

How could he tell you were black if it was at night?

I dont see this thread going far, thats for sure. It shouldnt either.

 

[Xytmnt]

Sorry to hear that you had a rough time with LEO. I have had my CCW for about 2 years and in that time have received three presents from three separate LE departments (I have a heavy right foot at times) and I've never been hassled about my pistol being on me or in my car.

I've been advised by several people to make sure I keep my receipts/bill of sale separate from my firearms for legal reasons. Thievery and proof of possession I assume. Just something to ponder.

 

[twofifty]

hey ljnowell, it's bad enough that trigun87 has to suffer charges of DWB (Driving While Black, an offence in many jurisdictions), let alone you pulling him over for PWB (Posting While Black).

imo, the OPs experience and the fishing expedition he underwent goes to the core of RKBA. The social aspects of his experience are also deserving of commentary and discussion.

 

[Samgotit]

Honestly, I've read multiple dozens of these stories on the net... white, black, purple, etc... and the vast majority come from guys about your age group.

I'm sorry for your inconvenience, but what you have there is a non-issue. You were let go with nary a ticket. Again, I don't mean to be an ass, but people of your age group take this kind a thing a little too dramatically.

 

[Jermz1987]

Do not feel bad buddy, racial profiling is an on going issue all over the place. Don't take it to personally, Ive learned not to. I am sure this thread will get closed because in some way shape or form. (Which I cant see) you are bashing LEOs.

 

[trigun87]

Ljnowell. My car doesnt have tint, um well lighted street and he did take quite sometime to pull me over. The point is the extra work from finding I CC, and the whole bill of sale and reciept thing. I believe these are valid questions. Why are they not?

 

[trigun87]

I hope its not closed, I must say of all the times I have been pulled over, most cops regardless of race,sex etc. After they speak to me and see Im not a bad guy they treat me the much nicer. Im not anti leo, hope no one sees it in that way. Despite alot of my expereinces I still have respect for leo's and have often thought about being one.

Samgotit, Have you ever had your rights infringed. Well I have before for lack of a better word for being ignorant and young. Its not fun.

 

[zignal_zero]

deleted

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Purchase a small digital recording device and a microphone that sits on the lapel, or hangs out your sleeve cuff. Turn it on just before you walk into the police department, ask to see the chief. State your case, ask to file a formal complaint of unprofessional conduct against the officers who stopped you, and make a written statement of same. Ask when they will need you to testify at the civil service board of review, or if they have an ombudsman. If you don't get a proper response, or are not treated respectfully, ask how you can file a complaint with the civil service commission or mayor's office. If that doesn't go professionally, or with respect, then walk into the local newspaper office and ask to talk to the editor about the matter. Take your recordings with you. I'm a retired LEO. From what you have said, I would be very interested in these points: 1) What was the probable cause to stop you in the first place 2) Why would they expect people to be carrying a bill of sale (Would they be carrying bills of sale for their privately owned weapons?) 3) What would make this different than a "fishing expedition" (profiling, shaking people down for no good reason)? I just never had time for that kind of crap.

 

[GRIZ22]

Purchase a small digital recording device and a microphone that sits on the lapel, or hangs out your sleeve cuff. Turn it on just before you walk into the police department, ask to see the chief. State your case, ask to file a formal complaint of unprofessional conduct against the officers who stopped you, and make a written statement of same.

Be sure of the laws in your state before doing this. In some states producing such a recording in the process of filing your complaint will make you a criminal.

 

[JohnKSa]

Unless there is a known problem in Tampa, FL with handgun permit holders stealing firearms I think it's a bit over the top to ask for proof of ownership for the gun AFTER finding that the person has a permit to carry.

Also, I've been pulled over a few times and to the best of my recollection without fail the second thing out of the officer's mouth (after asking for license & proof of insurance & reading both) is one of two things.

"Mr. ____ do you know why I pulled you over?" (and then explains traffic violation)

OR

"Mr. ____ I pulled you over because you were <explains traffic violation> "

I'd be more than just a tiny bit irritated if I got pulled over and the officer neglected to ever mention why he had done so.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

"Be sure of the laws in your state before doing this. In some states producing such a recording in the process of filing your complaint will make you a criminal. "

If that is true, anywhere in the U.S., then there must be tons of case law that would get it oveturned. The one thing that a person CAN do is make a copy of a converation in a public place (city street) that they, personally, are engaging in, for ANY reason. In any case I have ever seen, it would have been admissible in court, and that is EXACTLY where the OP might be headed with an action against the police or the city. But, for safety sake, take an attorney with you then. Maybe one from the ACLU or NRA would volunteer for free if you had such recorded evidence of improper conduct.

 

[Blackbeard]

One more reason never to answer a question posed by a policeman, and never EVER give consent to search.

 

[BULLSI]

^^^^^^^^^^^ what he said

 

[SteveCase]

exactly what blackbeard said. these two cops were JOs, and it was blatant profiling. If you have a CCP its almost an card saying your a good citizen, I said almost cause I dont know you or anyone else personally. but it shows your following the laws even as assinine as they are. but let see young black male at night coming from a quite a good place to work must be somthing out of place, funny how you were the only one to get pulled over

 

[481]

I dont see this thread going far, thats for sure. It shouldnt either.

I agree with you. This one was headed for "low road" territory as soon as it left the gate.

 

[rhartwell]

I sometimes think that there is way to much racial profiling. I just do not see any reason for the cop to do what they did. I am sorry that you had to go through this. It might not hurt at all to complain about this treatment. I can't fault them for pulling you over but the rest was over the top.:banghead:

 

[twofifty]

Good suggestion on not ever giving consent to a search, but the context is important here:

The OP has been repeatedly pulled over for what amounts to DWB. Such encounters can and have ended badly for many Black motorists. It is therefore not unreasonable that, being surrounded by 2 squad cars, the OP's natural instinct to protect himself from unlawful search has been somewhat chilled by the instinct to protect himself from a possible good whop-azz or worse.

Assenting and "going with the flow" is exactly what happens to law abiding citizens when a minority of rampagind LEOs are allowed to repeatedly get away with such intimidating tactics.

Rights are not taken away in a fell swoop, they are taken away a drib and a drab at a time. Given repeated DWB police interceptions, most any citizen would lose his ability to assert his rights.

 

[EddieNFL]

I'm sorry for your inconvenience, but what you have there is a non-issue. You were let go with nary a ticket. Again, I don't mean to be an ass, but people of your age group take this kind a thing a little too dramatically.

I'm about twice his age and I wouldn't be too thrilled.

 

[gotmine]

It speaks poorly of LEO's that resort to this behavior and it reflects on all of them. Sound familiar?...It could lead to someone profiling them because of a few bad apples in the barrel.

 

[Art Eatman]

trigun87, let me play Devil's Advocate for a moment: Is your car the only one of its make, model and color in your area? The only one owned/driven by a black guy?

It's entirely possible they could have been on the lookout for a car like yours. Sure, they ran your plates when they got behind you; that's standard procedure. After the "Dawson?" thing, prudence on their part would have them double-checking.

Yeah, there's profiling. Some areas there's too much DWB garbage. Some cops just really oughta be in a different line of work. But not "all", not even a majority are over-zealous.

As near as I can tell, there are somewhere in the vicinity of 800,000 to maybe a million cops/deputies in the US. Everybody has their own notions of the percentage of our population which is idiotic--and I pretty much figure the LEOs do a lot better than average, percentagewise. We probably have a lot fewer problems than a lot of folks realize.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Sorry to hear about these troubles, I would be more than a little irritated if I faced the same situation. I did get pulled over more often when I was in your age bracket (I'm a white guy) and I think that is part of it but if you feel your skin color and use of the RKBA is part of it I'd go to the local PD and ask to speak to someone in charge and maybe see the reason they recorded for the stop each time (maybe a little issue you didn't know existed with your car, who knows).
For a low cost solution I'd recommend picking up a copy of "You and the Police" by Boston T. Party. It's a short, concise, inexpensive book (I went to college, this costs less than you'll get for a textbook during the after term buy-back ) that will greatly add to your aresenal of how to handle these harassing stops not to mention other stops in the future, how to act, what to say, what NOT to say, your rights, their rights, etc.

 

[taliv]

here's the deal:

if you have actually been pulled over once/mo for some period of time and have no tickets, you need to see a lawyer.

that's it.

simple, eh?

 

[fireflyfather]

Caveat: Assuming the OP is telling the lion's share of the truth here. I've had the misfortune to be pulled over for DWNBJ (Driving While Not Being Japanese.....Ironic in that I was born in Japan, as were my father, and grandmother, and every other ancestor in that line for at least several hundred years back), and it's no nicer in other parts of the world I've visited. Lots of "young" folks don't take too kindly to this (when I say young, I mean this side of the grave and otherwise regular law-abiding-folks people), no matter what their skin color, national origin, or current location. Sure some people complain about imagined slights, but this particular occurrence is extremely common all over, and I tend to believe people who are otherwise upstanding when they complain of this treatment. I laugh at the gangbangers and junkies who try to pull this card, but I know enough regular folks who get this treatment to consider it an everyday occurrence in just about every neighborhood I've lived in in this country.

Honestly, I've read multiple dozens of these stories on the net... white, black, purple, etc... and the vast majority come from guys about your age group.

I'm sorry for your inconvenience, but what you have there is a non-issue. You were let go with nary a ticket. Again, I don't mean to be an ass, but people of your age group take this kind a thing a little too dramatically.

Sorry, I call BS on that. It IS an issue: The officer was about to let the gentleman go on his merry way, then found an excuse to "go fishing". While on the fishing expedition, he looked for any possible way to manufacture an excuse to run the man in. That's not the proper way to run a traffic stop. If you can't articulate a law being broken, see immediate danger of one sort or another (brown-skin who owns a gun doesn't qualify, sorry), or have an outstanding warrant popping up on the screen, you need to shut your mouth, smile, and wave the member of the public you have stopped for no articulable reason on his or her merry way. The ONLY reason that police have the power to even demand an answer to the question "are you armed" is for the officer's protection DURING the stop. If he was handing the man his stuff so he could leave, the officer violated the spirit of that law, if not the letter, and he damn well knows it or he should hand in his badge. Since he didn't ask the driver anything else, he was, ergo, on a fishing trip. I don't care what someone's age is, provided they are an adult, a member of the public shouldn't be searched and detained without due cause. If it truly was mistaken identity, the stop should have ended the moment he saw ID. If it was a BS excuse to pull someone over while having the audacity to DWB, then that sorry excuse for a LEO should find a new career: Perhaps sewage treatment.

Inconveniencing a member of the public so that an officer can go fishing while violating several constitutional rights is not a non-issue. It's a hell of a lot better than being beaten, disappeared, murdered, or otherwise terrorized, but only in the same way that a man stealing a hundred dollars from you is better than him stealing ten thousand.