UPS guy telling me I can ship primers without hazmat charge

[freakshow10mm]

Yes, primed brass is not hazardous materials. You can ship unlabeled as it's not ORM-D either, that only applies to small arms ammunition and does not include primed brass. You can just mail primed brass USPS, you just can't mail ammunition USPS.

Powder and primers as components: UPS or FedEx Ground Haz Mat
Loaded ammunition: UPS or FedEx Ground ORM-D Small Arms Ammunition ('Cartridges, small arms' is the proper DOT shipping name if you want to get technical)
Primed brass or brass with spent primer: no restrictions, US mail service OK

 

[helg]

In theory, you could probably do that, but I'm certain the cost would exceed HAZMAT fees. Plus, you would have to deprime the "cases."

Never underestimate invention power of a properly motivated engineer.

OK, let us make a cartridge of "25kurz" from plastic. It would be intended to be shot from the 25ACP mouse guns when loaded by a plastic bullet, primer of a choice (we will have 25SP, 25LR and other brands) and no powder. Same way as 22lr Colibri ammo is shot from 22lr guns. With low pressure due to the light bullet you can avoid using brass for a shell, and have a cheap plastic that adds about the price of APS strip on top. 25acp largest diameter is .3", which is on par with distance between primers in Winchester and some other packs - so we can get comparable packing density.The deprimer? Why do you ever need a deprimer? A lot of people use primer pickup tubes to fill the primers one at a time. A simple stud at one side of the "cartridge" when pickup tube is at the other one serve as a poor man deprimer. Sure, the depriming can be automated for a price.

Does anybody want to jump through hoops of the hazmat regulations to perfect the idea?

 

[rogn]

Dont want to damage thread, but can someone document any incident related to shipping of firearms related materials that would indicate that this cow( hazmat fee) need be bled dry. All of these materials(-iels ?) are potentially dangerous if abused negligently. But has this been documented as occurring in any history recent or otherwise? The gist seems to be a direct line to the wallets, especilly of the shooting public. The fuels, gas and diesel seem more likely to be be a destructive force on many more occasoins than any of the components we ship or have shipped. Again dont plan a hijack, but I am again scratching my head as to how we openned this pathway to our wallets..?

 

[Otto]

The fuels, gas and diesel seem more likely to be be a destructive force on many more occasoins than any of the components we ship or have shipped.

Fuels, gas and diesel are also assessed hazmat fees when shipped by common carrier.

 

[UnderDawgAl]

Bulk primers are classed 1.1/mass detonating.

There are two entries for Primer, Cap Type in the 49CFR, one for class 1.1 and the other for class 1.4. The large/small pistol primers and large/small rifle primers are 1.4.

Ship as much as you can before they bone you for the haz mat fee. Which they will.

Companies are in the business to maximize their profits. They love it when you have little or no choice. They collude between themselves to reduce the competition, and increase their profits.

As freakshow10mm and others have noted, shipping primers or powder requires strict adherence to DOT and FAA regulations. USPS is not an option for either. UPS and Fedex have the right to charge a hazmat fee to cover the costs of the additional man-hours they have to devote to meeting DOT and FAA regulations. That's not predatory business practice; that's charging for the extra work required to meet regulatory standards.

 

[EddieNFL]

Dont want to damage thread, but can someone document any incident related to shipping of firearms related materials that would indicate that this cow( hazmat fee) need be bled dry. All of these materials(-iels ?) are potentially dangerous if abused negligently. But has this been documented as occurring in any history recent or otherwise? The gist seems to be a direct line to the wallets, especilly of the shooting public. The fuels, gas and diesel seem more likely to be be a destructive force on many more occasoins than any of the components we ship or have shipped. Again dont plan a hijack, but I am again scratching my head as to how we openned this pathway to our wallets..?

Back in the '80s we were expecting a shipment of 20MM from the depot. When the truck didn't arrive as scheduled we checked and learned the trucker had crashed and there was a fire. Passersby said it was quite a show.

I agree, it's a money maker.

 

[EddieNFL]

The large/small pistol primers and large/small rifle primers are 1.4.

In shipping packing, you are correct. I believe the overpack sleeves are marked 1.4. Don't know why I didn't remember that. Gettin' old sucks.

 

[chris in va]

It's nowhere near as great a fire hazard as the gasoline in the tank of the vehicle carrying it.

Mmm...guess which one has it's own oxygen supply and doesn't need the presence of air to ignite?

Believe me, I'd rather drive around with a tank of gas than a tank of W231.

 

[freakshow10mm]

Believe me, I'd rather drive around with a tank of gas than a tank of W231.

Actually a gallon of gasoline is more dangerous and destructive than a pound of smokeless gun powder.

EddieNFL, the proper shipping name for primers (the ones we use) is Primers, cap type and is a Hazard Class 1.4S, UN0044, EX-9011264D, Packing Group II shipment.

 

[Mags]

1.4S

The S behind the 1.4 denotes flammable/hazardous gas. I am an AMMO troop and know my placards. How do primers produce a flammable gas? Regular loaded small arms ammo is 1.4C.

From AFMAN 91-201

Ball cartridges, .50 cal and smaller, and all gages of shot-gun shells, may be treated as
HC/D 1.4C unless 1.4S can be definitely established.

 

[qajaq59]

UPS guy telling me I can ship primers without hazmat charge

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Today I went and shipped a stock via UPS. While I was there I got to talking to the guy taking packages. He was telling me about a bunch of people sending primers and powder out through his depot without paying hazmat. He said they just have to be declared ORMD. Is he mistaken? If I were to ship something through there at his advice could I get in trouble or would it be his fault?

Do yourself a favor... Go ask his Boss that question!!! Then I'm sure you wont do it.

 

[EddieNFL]

RealMags, my knowledge is dated, but I remembered the 'S' indicating storage compatibility (or maybe it was both and I've forgotten...again). I remember things changed quite a bit in the early '90s when we began switching to the UN shipping numbers, etc. Clue me in.

IYAAYAS!

 

[EddieNFL]

Actually a gallon of gasoline is more dangerous and destructive than a pound of smokeless gun powder.

IIRC (not doing so well, lately), in theory, a gallon of gasoline touched off at one mile altitude has enough force to lift the Empire State building one foot.

 

[Mags]

Eddie, the 1.1 etc numbers represent explosive class and the letters represent hazard class divisions nowadays.

IYAAYAS!

 

[RustyFN]

OK here is a dumb question. Why is it that we have to pay hazmat with Fed-X and UPS but I can have a pallet of primers and powder shipped to where I work LTL with no hazmat fee?

 

[freakshow10mm]

Method of shipping.

 

[EddieNFL]

Eddie, the 1.1 etc numbers represent explosive class and the letters represent hazard class divisions nowadays.

IYAAYAS!

Mags,

The UN stuff was towards the end of my career and not being hands on the last ten or so years before I retired, I don't recall much of it. I assume (at great risk) that AFM 91-210 is Explosive Safety Standards? When I was hanging placards, 1.1 was hazard class/sub division and the letter was for storage compatibility. What is used for storage compatibility these days? The old AFM 127-100 used a chart that allowed/prohibited storing certain groups together. Groups B and F were always a problem.

AMMO sucks!

 

[mgkdrgn]

Today I went and shipped a stock via UPS. While I was there I got to talking to the guy taking packages. He was telling me about a bunch of people sending primers and powder out through his depot without paying hazmat. He said they just have to be declared ORMD. Is he mistaken? If I were to ship something through there at his advice could I get in trouble or would it be his fault?

If YOU ship the package, it's YOUR problem. The UPS guy isn't going to jail, YOU are.

You ought to do the manager of this UPS station a favor and suggest to him that his staff (or at least part of it) could use a weeee bit more HazMat training. DOT has absolutely -no- sense of humor when it comes to HazMat violations. You might just save his career.