What did you learn about handguns from IDPA or other competitions?

[Dr.Rob]

I've shot a match where it was sleeting MUD. (sleet + duststorm) That was a fun day of people drawing from concealment by opeing up a coat to start. Nobody wanted to unbutton a jacket until they absolutely had to that day.

I learned to bring a spare gun during a tough qualifier. Not everyone has this luxury, but I was glad I did!

 

[Dr.Rob]

Sam the first time I did a pistol course with a shotgun I came in 2nd. I suspect that was more about 'knowing how to run a shotgun' faster than a pistol at the time.

I suspect right now I'd be a lot faster with a carbine than a handgun and I haven't shot IDPA in a while.

I went through several holsters before I got one I really liked.

 

[Sam1911]

Yeah, that's why I always put my caveat in these discussions about how very skewed my practice regimen is toward handguns.

I've certainly known a lot of good shooters who's skills with a rifle are better than their handgunning skills, and for them the speed/accuracy break-over point might be quite different.

I'm also aware that relatively unskilled persons (the proverbial "my wife" who always shows up in our "what gun for home-defense" threads) may indeed find a long-gun easier to shoot with some basic level of effectiveness than they would a handgun. I tend not to proffer this idea in those threads, as the true neophyte seems to have a nearly unbounded ability to hit nothing at all when picking up a handgun for the first time.

 

[DAP90]

Good stuff.

Let me take another tact. What’s the thing you most struggled with early on? It might be something you executed poorly or something you just plain didn’t understand how to do or maybe even something you didn't even know existed.

 

[MrBorland]

What’s the thing you most struggled with early on? It might be something you executed poorly or something you just plain didn’t understand how to do or maybe even something you didn't even know existed

First was the patience to shoot within my limit. After that was the faith that if I shoot my best match, my place on the final tally will take care of itself (i.e., focusing on the process, not the goal). Chasing Joe Hotshot is a bad & frustrating strategy because we'll inevitably go beyond our ability, and/or let someone or something distract us from the process of shooting our best. Joe Hotshot isn't in your sphere of control, but your performance is.

More concretely, getting your hits (even if it means slowing down), and efficient movement are the lowest hanging fruits, IMO.

 

[Sam1911]

A few things come to mind there:

1) The draw. I've seen old videos of me and it's embarrassing. Tons of wasted motion. Up with the gun, then down low, swooping back up toward the target, arms going all over the place. We dubbed it the "potato-digger draw." Learn the 4-count draw stroke and practice it until it's all you know.

2) Reloads and other manipulations. Watch some good ones. Practice these minimal-motion steps, slowly at first, until you don't waste time fumbling around. And for heaven's sake, learn to work up in front of you. In your "workspace." Don't try to reload and/or clear jams down at waist height, bent over like you're trying to see your shoes. Do this so you can work quickly, keep your balance, keep your eyes on the threats/targets, and push straight back out when you're done.

3) Use of cover. IDPA has rules for using cover. They do NOT require you to hug walls, tiptoe up to edges, or bob back and forth between shots or to reload. (Check out our "Don't Crowd Cover" thread for more info.) This is a huge time waster for new shooters. They move like kindergarteners playing hide-and-seek.

4) To that same end, once you are able to run the gun without conscious thought, start to pay attention to the choreography of what you're trying to do. Many shooters waste a lot of steps, and a lot of time, taking lines that are unnecessarily tight or going places in the stage they don't need to go. What is the actual shortest distance between where you intend to shoot? Where do your feet need to be to keep you in cover? Can you keep in mind where a target was beyond a barricade so that your gun is already presented and trigger staged as you come around the shadow of cover? If you don't have to go hunting for the targets, you'll shoot a lot faster.

4a) Shoot as slowly as you have to to get hits, but when you're not shooting, HUSTLE! None of the fast shooters I've shot with trot or amble between firing points. They're at a sprint if the gun isn't firing. All that time in movement? Yeah, the timer's counting that, too, and on some stages you could lose as much time there as in your points down!

5) Lead with your eyes. Get your eyes and head moving ahead of the gun so you're already "on target" mentally as the gun catches up. This is more advanced, but your transitions will benefit greatly.

6) Forget the double-tap. Every shot is one shot. You're just shooting them as fast as you can see the sights. And as 9mmepiphany can tell you, you can see those sights MIGHTY fast! Combine this with number 5, and you'll be amazed at what you can do. Eventually you'll run an "El Prez" drill that sounds not like "bu-bang...bu-bang...bu-bang" but as an even string of shots "bang,bang,bang,bang,bang,bang" in cadence, and they'll be Down-0, too!

 

[Skribs]

I haven't gone to my first IDPA match yet, planning on it this month (22nd), but I have watched some videos and done some practice with airsoft, as well as some other drills my handgun. Note to self - if you have a solid 3-finger grip with the magazine inserted, use a two-finger grip while reloading, or you'll pinch your pinky.

One thing I realized I was doing with my cheapo setup (airsoft pistol, moving around in my condo, aiming at the same target) is that while I am great about keeping my finger off the trigger prior to shooting, I am terrible at removing my finger from the trigger after firing a few shots and pausing my shooting temporarily. That's something I made a conscious effort to work on.

Sam, it's interesting how many of those lessons in your last post I've learned similar versions of via playing video games. Ironically I'm not talking about first person shooters. I do want to say that I'm reading this thread like a hawk, though.

 

[Bobson]

After reading through this thread, I've learned that competitive tournament paintball (which I've done a lot of) and competitive shootings (which I've never done) seem to have an absurd amount in common. Significantly more in common than is different, at least.

I'm wondering if any of the more experienced members who have commented in this thread have spent much time in tournament paintball; and if so, whether they will agree or disagree with my conclusion.

 

[9mmepiphany]

What’s the thing you most struggled with early on?

1. Procedurals - I tried doing things I'd learned in police work that were against the rules (that is what makes it a game)...surprisingly these same things are within the rules of USPSA

2. Trying to shoot faster than I could get good hits...trying to keep up with the hotshots

3. Discerning how fine a sight picture was needed as the distance to the targets varied.

4. Timing my shots with my steps when shooting on the move...they are two independent actions which shouldn't affect each other

5. Waiting for the Start signal to end before drawing...I only recently learned to not do this

6. Waiting for a steel target to fall before moving to the next target...it is faster to come back for a missed target

 

[taliv]

bobson, i played paintball competitively in MSPA from ~1990-1995 and up in PA / OH from 1995-2000 or so. paintball requires much less discipline as far as technique goes, and is almost always a team sport. the team tactics usually determine the winner much more than a person's split times or accuracy. however, sure there is some overlap

 

[9mmepiphany]

focusing on the process, not the goal
...something distract us from the process of shooting our best.

This is so important that it bears repeating.

I've been known to mutter this to myself before a stage to remind myself of what I need to do. Shooting well, accurately and quickly, has nothing to do with hitting the target and everything to do with staying in the process

More concretely, getting your hits (even if it means slowing down), and efficient movement are the lowest hanging fruits, IMO.

This is the key to doing well. How you move and where you move to that minimizes wasted motion before you can start shooting again makes a huge difference. The time between targets isn't the time to relax between shots, it is the time to really push yourself to save time...because it is much less precise that pressing the trigger.

In a recent engagement of man vs. man shooting, the CoF was two plates, reload and a third plate. With my slow reactions, there were times the other guy would get off the first shot while I was still drawing...but I'd catch up because of my smoother mag changes and faster shot on the following push out

I'm still playing with which is faster when starting with your back to the targets...turning toward or away from your gun side.

 

[tarakian]

After reading through this thread, I've learned that competitive tournament paintball (which I've done a lot of) and competitive shootings (which I've never done) seem to have an absurd amount in common. Significantly more in common than is different, at least.

I'm wondering if any of the more experienced members who have commented in this thread have spent much time in tournament paintball; and if so, whether they will agree or disagree with my conclusion.

I have played a lot of tournament paintball in the past, from 92 - 96 or 7, then again from 2005-2009. I actually took up IDPA (and USPSA) after I stopped playing ball the last time.

There are some similarities and some major differences. The older mechanical paintball guns helped with trigger control and learning to shoot strong hand and weak hand. The new electronic markers changed the whole feel with the double finger triggers. Both versions teach you to practice the reload, using cover, economy of movement, and fixing problems under duress. The biggest difference is that paintball guns are not really designed to be aimed the same as a handgun. With paintball, it's more point shooting (most markers don't have sights) and then walking the stream of paintballs into the target. The sheer volume of shots would boggle the minds of most IDPA shooters. Even in the single trigger, mechanical days, we shot a case (2500 rounds) for practice. Tournaments games consumed anywhere from 100-1000 rounds per person per game. Our old team motto was "Accuracy by volume; one case, one kill". When I got back into it using the electronic markers at 15+ balls per second, the volume went up a bit. The biggest similarity is the opportunity to meet good people. The friends I started shooting IDPA with are all former team mates who have now been friends for 20 years. We have all found the shooting community to be similar, with people always willing to help and encourage each other.

 

[Bobson]

Good points, Tarakian. I think some of the biggest similarities I had in mind are learning to use cover effectively, solving problems under stress, and learning to evaluate a course and the best ways to maneuver it.

For me, those were the three things I placed the most emphasis on forcing myself to learn like the back of my hand - and they always paid off enormously and were very clear in my game when handled well. They're also the three challenges I miss the most.

Can't wait to get involved in USPSA or IDPA. If I didn't work swing shift with Mondays and Tuesdays off, I'd already have gotten out and shot a few matches. Problem is, I haven't found a single IDPA or USPSA club that has matches on my days off, or in the mornings before I go to work.

 

[Skribs]

6. Waiting for a steel target to fall before moving to the next target...it is faster to come back for a missed target

During the marksman training in the video game Americas Army, I learned it was better on a miss to just wait for the next target, instead of wasting several shots on one that I missed.

 

[Bobson]

During the marksman training in the video game Americas Army, I learned it was better on a miss to just wait for the next target, instead of wasting several shots on one that I missed.

I would think that would depend on the situation, no? If you need to run to the next target before engaging it, wouldn't it be better to engage the same target before moving on? Otherwise you'd have to spend the extra time returning to the target you missed...

 

[DAP90]

I've been known to mutter this to myself before a stage to remind myself of what I need to do.

The only shooting competition I’ve ever done was a trap league this year. It’s what convinced me that I really need to start shooting IDPA.

Anyway, I started out struggling. My scores dropped 20%. So I started talking to myself before my turn. “Relax – Focus” or some variation before every shot and after every miss. It seemed to help.

 

[jmorris]

Relax is a good one, I began asking to go first on every stage as the cure. Nothing to worry about once it's done.

 

[Skribs]

I would think that would depend on the situation, no? If you need to run to the next target before engaging it, wouldn't it be better to engage the same target before moving on? Otherwise you'd have to spend the extra time returning to the target you missed...

In the game I'm talking of, you were alloted 1 round per target, so every miss was a target missed. Like I said, not exactly IDPA, but I can understand the strategy 9mm stated in point #6 of his post.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I would think that would depend on the situation, no? If you need to run to the next target before engaging it, wouldn't it be better to engage the same target before moving on? Otherwise you'd have to spend the extra time returning to the target you missed...

Sorry if I wasn't very clear...I was pretty much just free flowing onto the screen about mistakes I'd made when first starting

What I meant was not to wait for a target to fall before transitioning to the next target...if there was another target available from that shooting point...and transitioning back to the steel before moving on to the next array.

If that steel target needed to fall to activate the appearance of another target, you really don't have a choice but to wait for it. Although I have seen a popper which activated a disappearing turner; however, the turner appeared so slowly that you could engage the next target in the sequence and come back to engage the turner before it disappeared

 

[Sam1911]

I'm still playing with which is faster when starting with your back to the targets...turning toward or away from your gun side.

Aaargh, that's one I can't run with the conventional wisdom. Everyone tells me to turn to the gun side. Turning to the support side always makes more sense to me as I'm putting my body between the "threats" and the gun, freeing up my strong hand/arm to draw and shielding (even masking) my drawstroke from anything that might foul me on the threat side.

Even with just barricades and static stuff behind me (uprange) I tend to get my elbow bumped or hung up if I turn to the gun side. When I turn "my way" I can throw out the support side elbow to give me a little clearance as I turn.

It doesn't seem slower. But the timer would tell.

 

[jmorris]

If that steel target needed to fall to activate the appearance of another target, you really don't have a choice but to wait for it. Although I have seen a popper which activated a disappearing turner; however, the turner appeared so slowly that you could engage the next target in the sequence and come back to engage the turner before it disappeared

I have done this many times. At natiolals a few years ago a fellow MA class shooter thought I was nuts when a shooting buddy and I were talking about engauging the steel activator, another two paper targets, then reload and hit the two dissapearing targets before they went behind the wall. Once I shot it, he could see the "free" time. The gamble is hitting your reload but when was the last time you missed one of thoes?

 

[Jim Watson]

"Aaargh, that's one I can't run with the conventional wisdom. Everyone tells me to turn to the gun side. Turning to the support side always makes more sense to me as I'm putting my body between the "threats" and the gun, freeing up my strong hand/arm to draw and shielding (even masking) my drawstroke from anything that might foul me on the threat side."

That is one of those gunfighting tactic versus match technique things.
I find it faster to turn into the gun at a match, but a cop should turn the other way to mask his holster from the threat.

 

[Skribs]

That is one of those gunfighting tactic versus match technique things.
I find it faster to turn into the gun at a match, but a cop should turn the other way to mask his holster from the threat.

I haven't shot competition yet, but I was thinking this when I read Sam's post.

 

[MCMXI]

1. You can't miss fast enough.
2. Even GLOCKs malfunction.
3. Video doesn't lie ... it shows the entire ugly truth. When you can stand to watch video of yourself in a match you're probably on the right track.

I've often wondered if the 180° rule helps or hinders in terms of a real world encounter. It sure is unnatural to "advance in reverse" with the muzzle pointing downrange.

 

[BrotherFrankie]

thanks for this post