I'll be following this thread. Followed a buddy to an IDPA match 2 weeks ago, next time I'm going to sign up myself. I was somewhat intimidated at first, but I saw a wide range of skills out there so I shouldn't be too embarrassed my first few times.
What did you learn about handguns from IDPA or other competitions?
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Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Greatest advice ever: Just do it!
You can't practice enough to be "ready" and when you go jump into it you'll move much farther/faster than you ever could by yourself. The only thing you need to worry about in your first match is SAFETY. Everything else will work itself out in time.
ny32182
Member
I played a little bit of competitive paintball many years ago. I would say there are zero similarities whatsoever with action pistol shooting. Same with video games. There is going to be practically no connection.
The mainstream sport most like action pistol shooting is golf. They are exact same game; different gear.
The mainstream sport most like action pistol shooting is golf. They are exact same game; different gear.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Well, IDPA doesn't have a "180° rule." But most ranges do. I've asked that same question myself, but the way I answer it is this: We also have two shoot houses, one that allows about 270 degree target presentations, and one that gives full 360 deg. coverage. I've never seen anyone falter in those scenarios becasuse they were defaulting to an "advancing backward" habit.
When you're on the range you keep strict muzzle discipline because you simply MUST. Out in the real world, without the visual cues of berm, SO, spectators, muzzle-safe points, and all the targets facing the same way, I don't think this ever gets in the way.
Arp32 said:
Every new shooter should be paired up with an experienced shooter. The experienced shooter should ensure two things. First, that the new shooter is being SAFE and second, that the new shooter is having fun. Any club that doesn't use this system is questionable and is probably run by a bunch of egotistical morons.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
IDPA acknoledges that there are possible safe stage designs (and range facilities) which could accomodate stages which are not limited to a 180 deg. safety line. However, IDPA does provide "muzzle-safe points" which are usually tall stakes with flagging and which show the shooter how far back s/he may point their weapon before they're creating a dangerous situation. In practice, except for shoot house scenarios as I mentioned, I've seen very few stages set up with targets arranged in such a way that shooters would be tempted to point uprange, even a few degrees.
Sam1911 said:
True, but remember that your muzzle during a reload can get you into trouble, too - even when the targets aren't problematic while actually shooting or moving.
Revolver shooters who employ a weak hand reload have to be particularly mindful here. Though I normally use a weak hand reload with speedloaders, I used a strong hand reload a bunch of times at this year's Carolina Cup. Seems I had legit reason for concern - IIRC, 30+ people got DQd, mostly for muzzle violations, and some of these, during a reload.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Good point. I've been a few places which were crazy-tight about muzzles when reloading. Certainly something to keep in mind. I do a swap-hands reload myself, and tend to bring the barren pretty near vertical. I've watched some revolver guys come way past vertical so they're about looking down the barrel! But, of course, the cylinder is open with thier fingers through the frame window. Kind of hard to say it's unsafe, per se. But I still keep mine downrange.
But shooting down at the MD State match a few times -- and being told that a muzzle being raised above the top of the berm was reason to be sent home! -- was an eye-opener.
But shooting down at the MD State match a few times -- and being told that a muzzle being raised above the top of the berm was reason to be sent home! -- was an eye-opener.
ny32182
Member
We had a girl on our squad get DQed on the very last reload of the entire match for a muzzle violation at Carolina Cup.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Holy cow. That sux. Care to elaborate? (Not saying you have to pass judgment on the call, just curious what happened.)
ny32182
Member
For those who were there, it was the "graveyard" stage, and there was a tight muzzle point for right handers. Muzzle safe point was probably around 45 degrees away from "downrange". I was not looking when they made the call, but the fact it was a tight muzzle spot was harped on significantly in the walkthrough. I don't think she was the only one who bought it at this spot.
The turn isn't slower, it is the shot...because, so I've been told, when you turn toward the gun, you can start the draw sooner without pointing the muzzle up range. Plus there is the issue of when it breaks the 180 (local range) rule...when it clears the holster or when the muzzle starts to rotate (muzzle down should be safe)
Personally I think it is just a matter of them not being able, or being unwilling, to pay attention to when you clear the holster...the only place you can really see is from the wrong side.
Turning toward the gun requires more rotation and forward movement, turning away actually is a step backwards
This is very common when ranges want to enforce a 180 degree vertical rule...pointing over the berm. When reloading, many folks point their muzzle up when inserting a magazine...but this is really more a IPSC issue than a USPSA or IDPA issueMrBorland said:
It depends on if you are still shooting or running.
If just running to another position, I've found it pretty natural to just drop my support hand, leave the strong hand extended toward the target, turn my torso and move laterally or towards the rear. In house clearing, I do maintain both hands on the gun and move with my shoulders squared
If you look at it critically, thinking in terms of movement, shooting while retreating...other than tripping on something on the ground, which can be addressed with proper foot movement (not placement) is easier than shooting while advancing. The weight shift and balance points provide a more stable platform
Bobson
Member
I've always been taught to bring the pistol into my workspace, up at eye level. The magazine is released while the pistol is being "brought in," and ideally, I should be ready to insert the new magazine when the magwell is at my eye level. At that point, the muzzle of the gun is pointing upward at a 45 degree angle, and at or very close to 90 degrees on my left side (assuming "downrange" is 0 degrees).
Is this poor or improper technique?
That is the way I do it too...although I don't rotate to the side as much as 90 degrees, maybe 30 degrees off the target. Unless, I am reloading on the move (while behind cover)
There are some IPSC (the World Organization) that will call you on it in International Competition
There are some IPSC (the World Organization) that will call you on it in International Competition
It's two reasons. One is that the stages are longer, more complex and can have more difficult shots.
The other is that the shooters are better, so you have to speed up to keep up.
I still shoot both as much as I can, although IDPA is more of a winter sport for me since USPSA shooters are sissies and quit from November til March around here.
The other is that the shooters are better, so you have to speed up to keep up.
I still shoot both as much as I can, although IDPA is more of a winter sport for me since USPSA shooters are sissies and quit from November til March around here.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
There's a third, more universal reason: In USPSA/ISPC you are given a space to work in (the range) and an array of targets. You then figure out how to shoot them -- what order, what distance, what movement -- that you think will get you done fastest.
If that means you walk up nose-to-nose and shoot every target point blank, so be it. If you stand still in one place and snipe them, fine. If you shoot all the guys farthest away first and save the guy standing one yard away for last, hey -- that's great! You want to stand exposed and rooted to the spot in front of a field of 40 bad guys and pick them off one-by-one? That's ok. Whatever you want to do to fulfil the requirement to put the required bullets through the given targets -- it strips down the idea of a "gunfight" into a single-faceted exercise of putting bullets on targets.
IDPA is much more scripted and has a different focus. IDPA tries to keep the idea of serious, deadly "threats" in mind and requires that you use cover, take the threats in order of how close (or exposed) they are to you, and attemts to keep the stages based on the sorts of things that could possibly happen to someone who carries a gun for defensive purposes. You can't just wander around shooting targets in any order. You can't stand exposed to a whole array of targets, because in theory they'd be shooting back at YOU. You'll be told what the secario is and where you need to go, and those stage descriptions will dictate which targets you have to shoot, when.
When you get deeper into them, the sports are pretty different, though on the surface they may seem similar.
This is why, when I initially looked at competition I was turned off. I felt the skills required for something such as USPSA was more competition skills and less applicable to self defense. It was the same reason why I don't own any target guns or .22s. Then I started looking at IDPA and I thought, "this stuff is actually designed to work with what I carry, so it actually makes sense." Now I'm interested.
That's not to say anything against USPSA as a sport, just not my cup of tea.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
That will probably promt a handful of replies to the effect that IDPA doesn't do a stellar job of simulating a real gunfight, and makes requirements that aren't always realistic, and still encourages a lot of gaming behavior that is not condusive to optimal and lawful self-defense practices. And that's so.
But it tries, and gives you a setting where you CAN think and work toward better defensive tactics if that's your aim.
But it tries, and gives you a setting where you CAN think and work toward better defensive tactics if that's your aim.
Bobson
Member
Are IDPA and USPSA scored the same? Meaning the ultimate goal is to complete a course of fire faster than everyone else?
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