What don't I know about my new Mosin Nagant?

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someguy2800

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Hey guys, I picked up a my first mosin nagant yesterday from someone local and would like to know a little more about it. I don't much about these other than about a half hour of internet reading.

The guy I bought it from told me he bought this and a couple others from hardware store about 10-15 year ago for $70. He said they were still covered in cosmoline. He said he fired about 50 rounds through it and put it away. When I got it from him both front and rear action screws were falling out loose and the action had a 1/4" of play in the stock. The top forend piece was pushed up against the sights and both barrel bands were just dangling on the forend so I'm guessing he didn't know much about guns. The bore is pretty dark but the rifling is in nice condition and it is not counter bored.

here is how I picked it up

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This morning I took it apart and cleaned all the varnish and cosmoline off the metal and cleaned up the stock a bit. I was able to scrub most of the gunk off the wood without hurting the varnish.

What I do know about it is that it was made at the Tula Arsenal in 1940, and looks to have been refurbished in '43 and '51. All the parts that I can find numbers on have matching numbers but the bottom metal, the barrel bands and the butt stock are stamped with the Izhevsk arsenal stamp. So thats about all I know. What am I missing? Anybody know anything about the stamp on the stock just in front of the butt plate? I'm guessing based on its condition that the stock was likely replaced during one of the refurbs?

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I must say, I never bought one of these when they were everywhere for $100, and really never even looked at one close because I just thought it was an ugly commie club hammered together out of scrap metal. After actually having one and seeing what it looks like with the cosmoline scrubbed off I was very wrong about that. Its not exactly refined and the stock is about the softest wood imaginable, but I must say that the machine work on it is much nicer than I expected and steel looks to be of pretty nice quality. The bluing and metal finish on the receiver especially would put many new guns to shame. I actually quite like it and I think its reasonably well made for a wartime model.

I bought a box of steel case 208 grain brown bear yesterday and shot it at a steel plate at 100 yards. I did not have a problem hitting the 10" plate standing and the rounds went clear through the 3/8" mild steel. I thought the recoil was a pussycat. Looking forward to putting it in the benchrest and seeing what I can do with some decent ammo.
 
I am not your man for telling you all the ins and out of your rifle. Frankly I never had much interest in that. I do have have experience with the models and have owned more than one over the years. I own two now. Its a sweet rifle. The trigger can be improved. The M39 Finish was the best of the breed. They can be very good shooters. Enjoy it.
 
Hey guys, I picked up a my first mosin nagant yesterday from someone local and would like to know a little more about it. I don't much about these other than about a half hour of internet reading.

The guy I bought it from told me he bought this and a couple others from hardware store about 10-15 year ago for $70. He said they were still covered in cosmoline. He said he fired about 50 rounds through it and put it away. When I got it from him both front and rear action screws were falling out loose and the action had a 1/4" of play in the stock. The top forend piece was pushed up against the sights and both barrel bands were just dangling on the forend so I'm guessing he didn't know much about guns. The bore is pretty dark but the rifling is in nice condition and it is not counter bored.

here is how I picked it up

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This morning I took it apart and cleaned all the varnish and cosmoline off the metal and cleaned up the stock a bit. I was able to scrub most of the gunk off the wood without hurting the varnish.

What I do know about it is that it was made at the Tula Arsenal in 1940, and looks to have been refurbished in '43 and '51. All the parts that I can find numbers on have matching numbers but the bottom metal, the barrel bands and the butt stock are stamped with the Izhevsk arsenal stamp. So thats about all I know. What am I missing? Anybody know anything about the stamp on the stock just in front of the butt plate? I'm guessing based on its condition that the stock was likely replaced during one of the refurbs?

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I must say, I never bought one of these when they were everywhere for $100, and really never even looked at one close because I just thought it was an ugly commie club hammered together out of scrap metal. After actually having one and seeing what it looks like with the cosmoline scrubbed off I was very wrong about that. Its not exactly refined and the stock is about the softest wood imaginable, but I must say that the machine work on it is much nicer than I expected and steel looks to be of pretty nice quality. The bluing and metal finish on the receiver especially would put many new guns to shame. I actually quite like it and I think its reasonably well made for a wartime model.

I bought a box of steel case 208 grain brown bear yesterday and shot it at a steel plate at 100 yards. I did not have a problem hitting the 10" plate standing and the rounds went clear through the 3/8" mild steel. I thought the recoil was a pussycat. Looking forward to putting it in the benchrest and seeing what I can do with some decent ammo.

Looks like a pretty nice one. Pre-war Mosins are definitely better finished than war-time production. BTW, the Russians normally used shellac instead of varnish--shellac is easier to refinish than varnish. Be careful about using any alcohol based solvents around it as it will dissolve the shellac. Most Mosin stocks from that time period are birch. As far as deciphering marks--this website has plenty of photos and can put you right on specifics on different Mosins and their distinguishing marks http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinMarks01.htm
Lapin's Northcape book is also pretty good on this.

You did not mention having a "sticky" bolt but that is a common problem with it as well as cosmolene oozing out of the stock on hot days or when you fire quite a bit. Several THR threads on fixing that problem. One is here https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/sticky-bolt.678074/

You also did not mention trigger pull but there are some cheap fixes as noted by other THR threads --one is quite recent https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/mosin-nagant-accuracy.826978/

One thing that you can do is find more accurate ammo--S&B makes pretty decent ammo as does Prvi Partisan--including a match grade http://www.ppu-usa.com/ppu/match-ammunition/ Then reload the brass using higher quality bullets.

One of the biggest feeding troubles that can be hard to diagnose is the interruptor that is designed to prevent rimlock and promote feeding. Rimmed cartridges can introduce feeding problems if the magazine is not loaded correctly. Sometimes the interruptor needs tweaking--there are two and one piece interruptors out there and both will work. Ultimately, the Finns rebuilt magazine boxes of Mosins so that they would feed better and redesigned Mosin triggers for better pulls, and Mosin sights. Smith sights is one web store that has information about Mosin sights, accurizing improvement stuff, and he comments here from time to time.
 
Good point on a new Mosin.....A well cleaned chamber will void ''sticky bolt''..........usually a condition brought about by old cosmoline in the chamber and firing away. Old , dry Cosmo has frustrated many a new Mosin owner, but a twirl of a 20 gauge brush on a cordless with the brush dipped in mineral spirits or plain gasoline dissolves and removes the culprit. Cant blame a military for well como'in' their chambers, because any rust in storage there and the whole rifle is null and void.....
The previous owner , who shot 50 rounds through it must have cleaned it quite well.
Shoot 150 grain surplus and you'll likely find its as accurate as you can shoot it to 300 yards or so. Its a Rifle, and has the same rules as any rifle; Clean it and keep it clean.

As noted above, if the interrupter is failing, you will have rimlock. The spring or the interrupter very very rarely has issues, but they are metal and it is a mechanism, and they can break. If the interrupter binds or breaks, you will have cartridges jam while feeding. A simple replacement you'll likely never have to make.

On a fine, working, normal Mosin, You dont have to worry at all about the rims and how they go into the magazine. The Interrupter that wedges out from the receiver wall lifts the cartridge to be fed up and above the rim of the cartridge below it, so it absolutely does not matter how the rims are arranged in the magazine.The Finns made a 'jam free' magazine by indexing dimples into the sides to keep the neck and shoulders aligned.
 
Thanks for the tips guys. No sticky bolt here, it runs as smooth as butter. The old owner must have gotten it out of the chamber and bolt internals but there was still a ton of it in the receiver raceways, the trigger, magazine, up around the locking lugs and everything that was covered with wood. Must have soaked the bolt in something though as there was none on or in that.
 
They're great rifles and come with a lot of history. My M-44 is a 1944 model, and I'd love to imagine it being carried across Eastern Europe and into Berlin.
 
I must admit, when I look at this rifle I imagine some poor grunt carrying it in the streets of Stalingrad, or driving the Germans out of the Caucasus. With having been built in 40 and rebuilt in 43 it almost certainly saw frontline combat at some time in its life.
 
Congrats on your "new to you" Mosin. They're pretty interesting rifles with some history to them. I enjoy mine, ( which is also a 1940 Tula ) and this year even began to handload for it. There's a wealth of info on them which some previous posters have already referenced and a few years back I was reading something about how any Mosin -Nagant from that era has almost certainly seen combat usage because most of the time rifles were in short supply and were desperately needed for the troops. What's really nice for collectors and shooters is that after WWII as they were gradually phased out the government began all those refurb programs and put all those rifles back into fine shape and into storage and preserved a whole lot of history.
 
The Soviets didn't get in another big war to have to break those bolt actions out of storage, so they sold them to Americans who will buy anything cheap.

Which makes me wonder, what else have they got greased up and warehoused? We know about Gas Seal Nagant revolvers, and blade bayonet SKSs, they sent most of them into the bottomless US market. Also new made Tokarev and Makarov "imitation army surplus."

But go back a generation or two.
S&W .44 Russians, both US and Tula?
Berdan I and II rifles?

Lugers? Certainly. I recall the story of the guy who repaired Khrushchev's watch on his American visit mentioning that he was a Luger collector. He shortly received a Luger with the crossed MN crest.
 
The older stuff is probably gone - if it was still warehoused I expect it would have been surplused out by now. Probably still some WWII stuff sitting in Russia that can't easily be exported here. And of course plenty of full auto weapons - PPSHs, AKs, etc - that we'll never see.
 
For shooting tight groups- the cold shot, IME, is stunningly accurate. Allow your barrel to cool,
between shots, maybe swab it out, the way muzzle-loaders do. Be sure to use Prvi Partizan, or S&B ammo.
 
Here are the results of shooting it tonight off the bench. This was at 50 yards shooting brown bear 203 gr bi metal jacket bullets.

The two shots in Yellow where the first two shots as is. The Red group is after drifting the front sight over a tad. Last shot in orange was me trying to hold about 6 inches low to compensate for the sights. Green group was my 45-70 marlin

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The orange circle on the target I think is 3 inches so thats right around a 2-1/2" group at 50 yards or about 5 moa. I was shooting at the center target and had the sights on the 100 meter notch. I find that accuracy to be excellent being that I am very very nearsighted and this was using very cheap bi metal bullets and I havn't even bothered to clean the bore. I found the trigger to be plenty agreeable for bench shooting as is, and I like the sights on the gun. Now I just need to figure out how to get a taller front sight to be able to better regulate the sights to a 100 yard zero. I'm actually considering putting this in the deer hunting rotation for one of my shorter range stands.
 
Two easy ways to raise your front sight without permanent alteration--one is the Smith Sights where you can even get fiber optic inserts of varying heights. The second is to use electrician's shrink tubing for wires which comes in different colors--heat it with a hair dryer and let it shrink as it cools. Cut to height desired. Easy Peasy. Amazon or any electrical supply store will have a lifetime supply for very little.
 
The CAI stands for Century Arms International. Importer's mark. Have a smithy check the headspace. Probably ok though. Don't think Century actually assembled 'em. Anyway, the Mosins that came into the shop, long before any of 'em arrived Stateside, were bang on target at 200 yards. Using Norma ammo. There was nothing else then.
Exploded drawing is here. http://stevespages.com/ipb-mosinnagant-1891.html
Manual is here. Has a trouble shooting guide at the bottom. http://stevespages.com/pdf/mosin-nagant.pdf
Mineral spirits alone will remove dried Cosmoline. The Russians, of course, did not use Cosmoline though.
 
I was thinking about seeing if I could drive out the sight pin and epoxy in a taller pin.

If you are interested in doing that, I would recommend keeping the whole original sight without alteration which drifts off with a punch and use a replacement part from fleabay etc for your alterations (which are now getting scarce themselves). There are videos on how to do in on youtube and in firearm disassembly books. Otherwise you could reduce the value of your rifle--according to Lapin, the Russians sighted the firearms in with the bayonet in place and then adjusted the front sight pin to a particular rifle for the zero. Non-permanent alterations such as heat shrink tubing are easy to remove and adjust-original sights--no so much other than drifting it a bit-with a tool or punch.

I think that Smith drills the old sight pin out and uses replaceable inserts held in place by allen screws which is possible if you have a drill press and time on your hands.

Another solution to bad eyesight is to mount a scout scope on the rear sight base which can be done with no permanent alterations.

Mosins keep moving up in price from the old $79-99 mark a few years ago and are one of the few left that don't start at $400-500 each now for one in good condition but they will probably make that in a couple of years. Unless you have a parts rifle, making no permanent alterations from a financial standpoint makes sense. However, if you want to do so, it is your rifle.
 
I think it will be pretty easy to change out the pin and keep it looking fairly authentic. This will probably be staying with me likely until I pass it on to a grandkid in about 50 years so I'm not terribly concerned about affecting its collector value, though I definitely want to keep it as original as I can.
 
For what its worth I've found the rear sight increments are right on out to at least 300m. For a working bolt action at $100 that can be shot with regularity as far as you can see, it can't be beat. Mine prefers 180 gr. .311" bullets over a moderate charge of Varget. Brass cased ammo always cycles smoother but its still not anywhere as smooth as a modern bolt.
 
Two easy ways to raise your front sight without permanent alteration--one is the Smith Sights where you can even get fiber optic inserts of varying heights. The second is to use electrician's shrink tubing for wires which comes in different colors--heat it with a hair dryer and let it shrink as it cools. Cut to height desired. Easy Peasy. Amazon or any electrical supply store will have a lifetime supply for very little.


I have also seen it in auto parts stores.
FYI; some folks use a large roll pin, as it is sturdier than shrink tubing
 
I have also seen it in auto parts stores.
FYI; some folks use a large roll pin, as it is sturdier than shrink tubing
Cool, I haven't come across that one before. My two shoot well enough using windage that I haven't messed with the front sight.
 
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