What is going to come of our 2nd amendment?

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The best thing that could happen to this country at this point is for it to break up into several countries like USSR did.

I believe that this is inevitable, and just a matter of time. It seems that people are moving to states with other like-minded people (birds of a feather), and this causes more polarization overall. I also think that it will be either gun rights and/or clash over bigger vs smaller federal government that will start the ball rolling over the secession line (with or without an ensuing civil war).
 
Its pretty obvious. The left wants to do away with the second amendment. They will if we let them. "A new constitution" Why would they accept anything that didn't give them control. They don't want a constitution, they want control. After all its for your own good.
 
If you are objecting to the NRA's supposed 'fear mongering,' you'd do well to recall their organization is almost wholly responsible for that weapons ban never making it out of the Senate last year; there is much to be fearful of when RKBA advocates aren't loudly and obnoxiously doing their jobs.

The fear mongering is a definite turn off for me. When everything is an emergency and absolutely vital to prevent Obama and Reid from confiscating all guns it is hard to take them seriously. Any really important issues are lost in the flood of hype and fundraising. I expect an organization to treat its members like adults.

Is participating in a push poll with no scientific merit and absolutely no security to keep people from voting multiple times really vital to preventing the confiscation of all guns?
 
OP's poll respondents skewed older because THR's demographics skew older.

In other words, the poll is indicative of THR, not of gun owners in general.

Currently, American gun culture is stronger than it has ever been.

• The NRA has ~5 million members.
• Nearly every attempt to institute stricter gun control laws since the death of the federal AW Ban in 2004 has been met with failure.
• We won Heller. The Heller Decision codified, into US law, the right of individual citizens to own guns for personal protection, thereby utterly killing the claims that the 2nd Amendment is some kind of "collective right."
• Post-Sandy Hook, there has been an enormous push to institute gun control at the state and federal level, led by the President and the left-wing media. These attempts have been almost universally stymied.
• New shooters continue to join us every day. While the number of people who own guns for hunting has gone down, the number of people buying guns for personal protection, especially in urban and suburban areas continues to rise.
• Those new shooters tend to skew younger and more diverse. Men and women in their mid-twenties to early thirties from all backgrounds and ethnicities.
• Competitive and sport shooting continues to grow.

Sorry, but for those of you who think we're losing our rights, or that the 2nd Amendment will die out with the passage of the Baby Boomers, you're flat-out wrong.
 
"When everything is an emergency and absolutely vital to prevent Obama and Reid from confiscating all guns it is hard to take them seriously"
You do know those are advertisements for donations, right? Why aren't they allowed to use hyperbole like every other advertising (or activist) organization in existence? Of course activists/activism is annoying; that's actually kind of the point ;)

"Our government IS working to preserve our rights, our Corporations are working to remove them even more rapidly."
I'd agree, if there weren't such a fascistic infrastructure in place between Corps and .gov already. For instance, my place of work is likely as highly secured (and gun-banned) as it is due to the presence of government employees on site. We wouldn't get work from them if we didn't abide by their disarmament requests. It's probably less of a choice for the corporation than I'd like to think, even though our management is from "back east" and all. It's a bit much to ask corporations to stand up to Uncle Sam's advances when their entire purpose is to generate money, and Uncle Sam has all of it. As far as insurance driving tyrannical behavior; insurance just happens to be the most heavily-regulated private enterprise there is (maybe a close second to banking in these Command-Capitalism days we're in)

"The best thing that could happen to this country at this point is for it to break up into several countries like USSR did."
I agree with Putin that Russia's was the greatest geopolitical tragedy of last century (while obviously impactful, the Nazis were a blip geopolitically; dead within 15 years or so of their rise). One of the greatest world powers that ruled Asia for centuries rapidly collapsed into a helpless backwater; it probably rivals Spain's collapse. A similar breakdown of the US would be ten times worse (at least). We'd lose all international standing, all agreements/arrangements would be broken, all our foreign interests would be taken from us, and large portions of our territory would be forced to align and subjugate themselves with larger powers seeking to fill the void. Not to mention rival American sub-states. Imagine the actual shape of these events on the ground for Americans, and it's pretty horrifying. An American collapse would be more like Rome's than the USSR's; likely resulting in a decades-long Depression (Dark Age) while the whole thing untangles and is replaced.

TCB
 
IME I've seen a number of the hipster/newbie gun loving surge movement and I find it hard to believe they would actively fight for that right. They enjoy the right now because it's easy and convenient....
 
Speaking of corporations...

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

Pardon the source and lack of hyperlinking.

"Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organised groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on US government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence."

I'm sure this is written by some fringe group from some no name college using bogus data.

It feels good, real power to the people...
 
"

"The best thing that could happen to this country at this point is for it to break up into several countries like USSR did."
I agree with Putin that Russia's was the greatest geopolitical tragedy of last century (while obviously impactful, the Nazis were a blip geopolitically; dead within 15 years or so of their rise). One of the greatest world powers that ruled Asia for centuries rapidly collapsed into a helpless backwater; it probably rivals Spain's collapse. A similar breakdown of the US would be ten times worse (at least). We'd lose all international standing, all agreements/arrangements would be broken, all our foreign interests would be taken from us, and large portions of our territory would be forced to align and subjugate themselves with larger powers seeking to fill the void. Not to mention rival American sub-states. Imagine the actual shape of these events on the ground for Americans, and it's pretty horrifying. An American collapse would be more like Rome's than the USSR's; likely resulting in a decades-long Depression (Dark Age) while the whole thing untangles and is replaced.

TCB
I have a Plan B for that, but it would probably result in my permanent ban from here.
 
The electorate has changed. Ronald Reagan couldn't get elected in the current environment. "The Greatest Generation" is dying off, being replaced each year with new voters fresh out of 13 or more years at the hands of leftist liberal indoctrination from the halls of public education.
Not only that immigrants are pouring in by the millions and have as much in common with the bill of rights and freedom as I have with ballet dancing
 
OP's poll respondents skewed older because THR's demographics skew older.

In other words, the poll is indicative of THR, not of gun owners in general.

Currently, American gun culture is stronger than it has ever been.

• The NRA has ~5 million members.
• Nearly every attempt to institute stricter gun control laws since the death of the federal AW Ban in 2004 has been met with failure.
• We won Heller. The Heller Decision codified, into US law, the right of individual citizens to own guns for personal protection, thereby utterly killing the claims that the 2nd Amendment is some kind of "collective right."
• Post-Sandy Hook, there has been an enormous push to institute gun control at the state and federal level, led by the President and the left-wing media. These attempts have been almost universally stymied.
• New shooters continue to join us every day. While the number of people who own guns for hunting has gone down, the number of people buying guns for personal protection, especially in urban and suburban areas continues to rise.
• Those new shooters tend to skew younger and more diverse. Men and women in their mid-twenties to early thirties from all backgrounds and ethnicities.
• Competitive and sport shooting continues to grow.

Sorry, but for those of you who think we're losing our rights, or that the 2nd Amendment will die out with the passage of the Baby Boomers, you're flat-out wrong.
Your numbers do nothing to offset the millions of immigrants pouring in. Without the massive flow of them your numbers would be great
 
Taxation without representation 240 years ago.

Today, it is legislation without representation!
Taxation without representation was better then what we got now being the rate was fraction that it is now. A king across an ocean that took weeks to get an army here was better then have militarized cops and feds right here plus you could have resisted them any way you wanted. Many in the gun community worship anyone with a uniform
 
I just read through the thread pages and I can't believe I am reading so much misinformation/mis-opinion on THR!

If you think the Second Amendment is doomed because the 50+ guys are dying off, you are terribly mistaken. It is the younger, more energetic segment of the population who have always led social revolts, rebellions, revolutions and wars, not 50+ old farts. Just look at recent events in Egypt and other parts of North Africa/Middle East, it was the younger segment of the population who made up the core of the movements.

How old do you think our founding fathers were? Over 50-60? Wrong. Many Founding Fathers were younger than 40 years old in 1776, with several qualifying as Founding Teenagers or Twentysomethings (shocking isn't it? Teenagers and 20's as our founding fathers!). And though the average age of the signers of the Declaration of Independence was 44, more than a dozen of them were 35 or younger - http://allthingsliberty.com/2013/08/ages-of-revolution-how-old-1776/

Somebody correct me if I am wrong but it is my guess that in the past few years, historic record setting number of firearms were sold in the US and much of the firearms were probably sold to under 50 shooters. Every time I go to the ranges, I see more and more younger shooters buying and shooting firearms and more and more families bringing their children to shoot. Talking to families and friends all across the country, this is representative nationwide.

I don't know about your city but in my city and nearby counties, violent crime has been increasing the past few years and the requests for gun permits has increased to historic levels. Even many Democrats and liberals are now gun owners at my work as all the neighbors/friends/relatives know of someone who has been burglarized/victimized either personally or otherwise. Who would have thought we would actually start getting Second Amendment support from Democrats/liberal! I guess the basic need for personal safety trumps everything.

In February of this year, of all places, in the state of California, a landmark Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals case was won for individuals who were denied carry licenses by the San Diego Sheriff - http://www.nraila.org/legal/article...t-confirms-right-to-carry-arms-in-public.aspx

BTW, 9th circuit covers California, Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Washington, Alaska and Hawaii and I am guessing there are a lot of young people raising families in these states. ;)

This is THR. Instead of spreading misinformation and acting defeated, I think we should verify facts and spread positive/encouraging information and opinions.


Absolutely +1 on Justin's post. Spread the word and pass it on.
Justin said:
Currently, American gun culture is stronger than it has ever been.

• The NRA has ~5 million members.
• Nearly every attempt to institute stricter gun control laws since the death of the federal AW Ban in 2004 has been met with failure.
• We won Heller. The Heller Decision codified, into US law, the right of individual citizens to own guns for personal protection, thereby utterly killing the claims that the 2nd Amendment is some kind of "collective right."
• Post-Sandy Hook, there has been an enormous push to institute gun control at the state and federal level, led by the President and the left-wing media. These attempts have been almost universally stymied.
• New shooters continue to join us every day. While the number of people who own guns for hunting has gone down, the number of people buying guns for personal protection, especially in urban and suburban areas continues to rise.
• Those new shooters tend to skew younger and more diverse. Men and women in their mid-twenties to early thirties from all backgrounds and ethnicities.
• Competitive and sport shooting continues to grow.

Sorry, but for those of you who think we're losing our rights, or that the 2nd Amendment will die out with the passage of the Baby Boomers, you're flat-out wrong.
 
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FYI, list of ages, from youngest to oldest, of key American Revolution participants as of July 4, 1776 (*^ not all ages may be precise) -
http://allthingsliberty.com/2013/08/ages-of-revolution-how-old-1776/

Andrew Jackson, 9
(Major) Thomas Young, 12
Deborah Sampson, 15
James Armistead, 15
Sybil Ludington, 15
Joseph Plumb Martin, 15
Peter Salem, 16*
Peggy Shippen, 16
Marquis de Lafayette, 18
James Monroe, 18
Charles Pinckney, 18
Henry Lee III, 20
Gilbert Stuart, 20
John Trumbull, 20
Aaron Burr, 20
John Marshall, 20
Nathan Hale, 21
Banastre Tarleton, 21
Alexander Hamilton, 21*
John Laurens, 21
Benjamin Tallmadge, 22
Robert Townsend, 22
George Rogers Clark, 23
David Humphreys, 23
Gouveneur Morris, 24
Betsy Ross, 24
William Washington, 24
James Madison, 25
Henry Knox, 25
John Andre, 26
Thomas Lynch, Jr., 26^
Edward Rutledge, 26^
Abraham Woodhull, 26
Isaiah Thomas, 27
George Walton, 27*^
John Paul Jones, 28
Bernardo de Galvez, 29
Thomas Heyward, Jr., 29^
Robert R. Livingston, 29
John Jay, 30
Tadeusz Kosciuszko, 30
Benjamin Rush, 30^
Abigail Adams, 31
John Barry, 31
Elbridge Gerry, 31^
Casimir Pulaski, 31
Anthony Wayne, 31
Joseph Brant, 33
Nathanael Greene, 33
Thomas Jefferson, 33^
Thomas Stone, 33*^
William Hooper, 34^
Arthur Middleton, 34^
James Wilson, 34*^
Benedict Arnold, 35
Samuel Chase, 35^
Thomas Knowlton, 35
William Paca, 35^
John Penn, 35^
Hercules Mulligan, 36
Andrew Pickens, 36
Haym Salomon, 36
John Sullivan, 36
George Clymer, 37^
Charles Cornwallis, 37
Thomas Nelson, Jr., 37^
Ethan Allen, 38
Charles Carroll, 38^
King George III, 38
Francis Hopkinson, 38^
Carter Braxton, 39^
George Clinton, 39
John Hancock, 39^
Daniel Morgan, 39
Thomas Paine, 39
Patrick Henry, 40
Enoch Poor, 40
John Adams, 40^
Daniel Boone, 41
William Floyd, 41^
Button Gwinnett, 41*^
John Lamb, 41*
Francis Lightfoot Lee, 41^
Paul Revere, 41
Thomas Sumter, 41
Robert Morris, 42^
Thomas McKean, 42^
George Read, 42^
John Dickinson, 43
John Glover, 43
Benjamin Edes, 43
Samuel Huntington, 44^
Richard Henry Lee, 44^
Charles Lee, 44
Francis Marion, 44
Lord North, 44
George Washington, 44
Joseph Galloway, 45
Robert Treat Paine, 45^
Friedrich von Steuben, 45
Richard Stockton, 45^
Martha Washington, 45
William Williams, 45^
(Dr.) Thomas Young, 45*
Josiah Bartlett, 46^
Henry Clinton, 46
Joseph Hewes, 46^
William Howe, 46
George Ross, 46^
William Whipple, 46^
Caesar Rodney, 47^
John Stark, 47
Mercy Otis Warren, 47
William Ellery, 48^
Horatio Gates, 48
Artemas Ward, 48
Oliver Wolcott, 49^
Abraham Clark, 50^
Benjamin Harrison, 50^
George Mason, 50
Lewis Morris, 50^
Lord Stirling, 50
George Wythe, 50*^
Guy Carleton, 51
John Morton, 51*^
Comte de Rochambeau, 51
Lyman Hall, 52^
James Rivington, 52*
Samuel Adams, 53^
Comte de Grasse, 53
John Witherspoon, 53^
John Burgoyne, 54
Johann de Kalb, 55
Roger Sherman, 55^
Thomas Gage, 56
James Smith, 56^
Israel Putnam, 58
Comte de Vergennes, 58
Lewis Nicola, 59*
George Germain, 60
Philip Livingston, 60^
George Taylor, 60*^
Matthew Thornton, 62^
Francis Lewis, 63^
John Hart, 65*^
Stephen Hopkins, 69^
Benjamin Franklin, 70^
Samuel Whittemore, 81
 
Gun control in this country is mostly driven and funded by wealthy elites in their 70s and 80s (Dianne Feinstein is almost 81, Michael Bloomberg is 72). Bloomberg is spending $millions trying to sell authoritarian nanny-statism to younger people, to try keep his movement from dying out with his age cohort, but there are not a huge number of young gun-control enthusiasts who aren't paid mouthpieces of the older set. There *is* a huge number of younger gun enthusiasts.


Yes, we are facing a very powerful and very well funded clique of authoritarian control freaks on the political front, but there is reason to be optimistic from a cultural standpoint, I think.


You have a very good point! Sometimes we look at the battles we have lost and despair, and don't realize we were victorious in the war!

Not that we have won yet, or that our winning is foreordained.

I think your last statement about the "well funded clique of authoritarian control freaks" was astute.

Guns aren't the only things they want to regulate, cars, toilets, light bulbs, showerheads, speech, diet, soda cups, salt, religious beliefs, your personal conscience! The list is almost endless!
 
If you think the Second Amendment is doomed because the 50+ guys are dying off, you are terribly mistaken. It is the younger, more energetic segment of the population who have always led social revolts, rebellions, revolutions and wars, not 50+ old farts. Just look at recent events in Egypt and other parts of North Africa/Middle East, it was the younger segment of the population who made up the core of the movements.

I honestly don't know what point you're trying to make with this post and the one after with the ages of revolutionary figures. This is not a discussion about a revolution this is a discussion about the politics of stable and peaceful country. Older generations vote and therefore have a good bit of power in this country, however if they don't pass down their ideals then those ideals are doomed as they will die with them.
 
"Andrew Jackson, 9"
Can we not count him as a Founding Father? He was arguably the beginning of the end of our Republic :D

"Older generations vote and therefore have a good bit of power in this country, however if they don't pass down their ideals then those ideals are doomed as they will die with them."
I think the point was (as I posted earlier) there are always new geezers being made --more now than at any time in our history, by the way-- and that young, energetic individuals are always doing the real legwork of popular movements (usually to impress babes :D). As far as Egypt/etc., I think about 90% of that country is under 50, so any rebellion would have to be that demographic ;)

TCB
 
Apologies.

The point I was trying to make was that this country was founded by relatively "younger" segment of the population and to not discount the younger future generation in terms of the Second Amendment as the older generation passes.

While in past decades, we have seen the erosion of gun rights and it is only human/easy to expect more of the same but as Justin posted, things are starting to turn around at various parts of the country and in political/judicial arenas, especially for the Second Amendment. It is always darkest before the sunrise.

Do keep in mind that younger generation of this country has far more information available at their disposal (google/wikipedia/youtube/social media/etc.) and many are more keener than we give them credit for and they just may surprise us as how they approach the Second Amendment in the future (they certainly have greater tools to come together and mobilize their efforts).

Sorry if I hijacked the thread.
 
When I go to the range, the vast majority of shooters are in their 40's and up. If you see a 20 something there, chances are they came with their parents. My belief is that it gets down to economics. When you are young and perhaps still living at home, you most likely do not have the disposable income to spend on guns and ammunition. It's hard to maintain your focus when it is all therotical. It's the "old farts" that are more afford to hunt, and shoot and have nice toys. We have spent time cleaning up after the ponies, now we get to ride the ponies.
 
What is going to come of our 2nd amendment?

It's going to wither and die on the vine as it is legislated into irrelevance. The only way it will be saved is for those who oppose it find it necessary to hide in their cellars and cry for fear of retribution. That won't happen because gun owners seem to be fixated on being "law abiding" even when those so-called "laws" are completely unconstitutional. You retain those right which you are willing to defend by whatever means is necessary.
 
Nicky, and those who have fought for us in the past have included "younger" segments of the population. Remember? We were all "young guns" once ;)

If you think about it, the younger generation has more to lose and may fight harder. I think supporting the younger generation may be a crucial part of defending the Second Amendment in the future.
 
What is going to come of our 2nd amendment?

It's going to wither and die on the vine as it is legislated into irrelevance. The only way it will be saved is for those who oppose it find it necessary to hide in their cellars and cry for fear of retribution. That won't happen because gun owners seem to be fixated on being "law abiding" even when those so-called "laws" are completely unconstitutional. You retain those right which you are willing to defend by whatever means is necessary.
Today law abiding means compliant slaves. Not so 50 years ago but true now. The only time I saw the 2nd amendment used the way it was supposed to be was at the bundy ranch
 
My opinion is that as the youth of today hunt less, shoot less, are in more urban areas, and are constantly bombarded with the "evils" of firearms, that our numbers will decline.
If you aren't interested in firearms, have no use for them, and see only the harm from them then why would you engage your brain to see otherwise?
 
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