what makes an HK P7 so great?

[c919]

i have shot a few of their other pistols (usp's & p2000's) and loved them. now im just curious about this strange little guy known as the P7..... i have never had the chance to play with one and im really interested in that grip. so lets hear it... whats all the hype about?

 

[jon_in_wv]

HOnestly, if you shoot one you'll quickly find out. The P7s (mine in particular) are superbly accurate, point very naturally, and are very safe yet fast handling. There is a distinct "feel" shooting it. There is not unlocking, tilting barrel, so the movement feels very crisp. Very fluid when you fire it. Mine has become my primary carry gun. Some people don't like them, I love mine.

There is ONE caveat whoever. The gas system does let the sucker get hot. After a couple mags the area above the trigger guard gets pretty warm. Before long its too hot for comfort. Tomorrow I'm taking it out and I'm going to shoot it at 100y to see where its hitting, after that I'm gong to try hitting the steel gongs at 200y at the range. Why? I don't know. Sounds fun.

 

[CWL]

Do you like well-tuned sports cars or a nice automatic watch? Ever admire how well-engineered some things are and how this sets itself apart from all the others?

The HK P7 line of pistols fall into this category of "performance" firearms. The P7 series is about as complicated as you can get in a design and still have it work reliably every time you need a pistol. There is something definitely cool about a pistol that you can take from absolutely safe to "cocked" by squeezing it, add to this one of the crispest triggers and the inherent accuracy from the fixed polygonal barrel and how it aims as easy as pointing your index finger.

It is a rarity.

 

[Shear_stress]

I'm not really sold on H&K's other pistols, but I really like the P7. It's a pretty unique gun, flawlessly made, easily concealed and, as Jon said, very accurate. The manual of arms takes some getting used to, but mechanically the pistols are actually pretty simple. Plus, all those surplus German pistols have really reduced the price of entry. Now even folks like me can pay to play!

Oh yeah, and that heat thing is no joke. Those PSPs get toasty!

 

[MIgunguy]

I'm not really sold on H&K's other pistols, but I really like the P7.

+1

No one else is allowed to shoot my P7 because every time I have let someone shoot it, they bug me about selling it to them. Every time. Seriously, no BS.

 

[Billy Shears]

My dad's got one. It is nice. It's superbly accurate, and I love the trigger. As others have pointed out, it does get hot though. That's doubtless not an issue at all in actual defensive use; you won't fire enough rounds in a gunfight. It can make a range session less pleasant though.

I have to admit also that I have never liked the feel of the grips. The angle is alright, and the gun points naturally enough, but the grip is so flat and slab-sided that it's just not that comfortable. Also the short barrel, while great for concealment, makes the gun very butt heavy. It wants to fall out of any holster that doesn't fit it perfectly, and doesn't balance that well in the hand IMO.

 

[jon_in_wv]

The P7 series is about as complicated as you can get in a design and still have it work reliably

I have to disagree with CWL on that statement. If you look up a parts diagram of the P7 it has 51 parts not including the magazine which is exactly the same number of parts as a 1911 and in the same ballpark as most other autos. The P7 however has fewer moving parts during the firing cycle as those comparable weapons. A lot of the P7s parts are in the squeeze cocker which once your grip is attained doesn't involve any moving parts.
Its certainly not complicated to USE. Once you grip is attained you just pull the trigger. Even magazine exchanges with the heel release are simpler and require less fine movements with the P7. I think of the P7 as elegant. Its a unique design and as far as I'm concerned it WORKS!

 

[Hostile Amish]

Few moving parts, sleek design, gas operated, low recoil, absolutely safe to carry, points naturally, will eject without the ejector in place (fluted chamber), extremely accurate. What's not to like?

 

[bryanZ06]

I love mine. It's one gun that I'll never part with.

 

[freakshow10mm]

It's the only pistol of its kind. Accurate, reliable, and very ergonomic. First time out with my P7 PSP I put a magazine worth of rounds in a cloverleaf at 10y. I immediately gave it to my range buddy and he did the same thing.

My P7 is an early run with serial number 68XX. Very good condition and I paid $625 shipped for it.

 

[Ascot500]

A lone dissenter

I had one - a PSP actually.
I wanted to like it, I liked the concept, liked how it felt, liked the quality.
But in the end, it would not feed the Norinco ball that I had boxes of and was no more accurate than my Kahr K9.
Which is why I still have the Kahr but not the PSP.

 

[HisSoldier]

gas operated

Gas retarded, there is a difference. Gas operated means it uses the gas to cycle the action, gas retarded means the action is basically a blowback with a gas braking system.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

The P7 is certainly a unique design. The best thing about it is that it is about the same size as a G19, but holds half the ammo.

 

[Billy Shears]

Another thing about the P7 is that the gas retardation system is less versatile when it comes to adapting the weapon to other cartridges. H&K made a version in .40S&W which had to have a massive slide in order to work with that substantially more powerful cartridge. They also made prototypes in .45ACP, which ended up requiring a different system of operation. Evidently the .45ACP, being a low pressure round, doesn't produce enough pressure to make gas-retarded blowback operation possible with this cartridge.

 

[Dobe]

I have the M8 version. I took a while for me to get use to this handgun. But I did grow to like it.

 

[oneounceload]

Got mine as a b'day present from my wife - I like the fact, that like a Glock, there are erally no external things to mess with - pull gun, point gun, shoot gun.

There are a lot of folks who don't feel safe without 40 million external safety devices - I prefer none at all except my brain and trigger finger - they have worked well together these last 50 plus years

It fits well in my hand, and at 7 yards has shot many ragged one-hole groups COM........works for me

 

[jon_in_wv]

The P7 is certainly a unique design. The best thing about it is that it is about the same size as a G19, but holds half the ammo.

Right. A G19 is a larger than a P7. In fact its MUCH closer in size to a G26. I have a M&P 9c and you can see side to side pics of them together elsewhere on the forum. A P7 is also safer, more accurate, more naturally pointable, than a G19. They were also made for many years without someone coining the phrase "kaboom" to describe it.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

I don't know why I respond to P7 threads. P7 owners simply will not tolerate anyone pointing out anything bad about the P7. It is as if I insulted their god, or called their wife ugly.

If the P7 was as good as they think, it would not be in and out of production.

 

[MIgunguy]

P7 owners simply will not tolerate anyone pointing out anything bad about the P7. It is as if I insulted their god, or called their wife ugly.

If the P7 was as good as they think, it would not be in and out of production.

That's funny.

It's supposedly not very corrosion resistant but someone saying so doesn't bother me a bit.

 

[CWL]

If the P7 was as good as they think, it would not be in and out of production.

Well, if it was actually bad, it would have been permanently discontinued decades ago. The fact that it is still manufactured is a sign of the desirability of the design.

The reason why the P7M8 (NOT "P7", which is an earlier version) is not regularly produced is because of the costs. It requires skilled machining and fitting and most people just cannot afford such an expensive-to-manufacture gun. When they do make runs of P7M8s, they sell out to collectors. I wouldn't be surprised if the low manufacture rate is to help keep prices high.

The fact that most people have been mislead to believe that having doublestack high-capacity magazines win fights (rather than training) is why some people complain about the 8+1 capacity.

 

[mgregg85]

Its a neat pistol but it isn't perfect.

On the positive side...
-Small
-Thin
-Easy to use
-Accurate

On the negative side...
-Low capacity
-It can get real hot
-Mags seem to be pretty expensive
-Some don't like the European style heel mag release

 

[LUPUS]

I do not have any experience with the PSP or M8, but I can give some comments about the M13. The grip is on the blocky side, but it is not so much diffucult to hold and point the pistol. I have to agree with the posters talking about the natural pointing, smooth operating and shooting characteristics of the pistol. And it is the most accurate pistol along with the P220 that I have ever shot including other HKs,SIGs,BHPs,CZs, etc.

On the other hand it gets hot, really hot. Once we tried four consequetive magazines with one of my friend's M13 as fast as possible, and at the end of the drills, it was almost impossible to touch any area around the trigger guard. And other then the heat factor, the system, especially the gas cylinder and piston gets dirty so much quickly with carbon fouling.

Any way, the P7 is one my most loved and favorite pistols. I am saving for a NIB P7M13 nowadays.
I hope to come together with my jealous mistress as soon as possible.

Regards.

 

[jon_in_wv]

The P7 does have its drawbacks, it does get HOT when its shot. The capacity is not a problem for me. The empty mags come out and a loaded one goes in. Problem solved. Mags are also expensive but since when is that the deciding factor in the quality of the weapon? All weapons have quirks. I personally really like the squeeze cocker. It make handling the weapon safely a no brainer. The fixed barrel provided stellar accuracy and it has a wonderful trigger. I don't think anyone minds criticism of it, but lets be accurate about it. The P7 is also extremely slim and though my personal pet weapon is my M&P 9C I've found I can shoot more accurately with my P7 and its effortless to shoot well with it. That easily outweighs whatever drawbacks it may have. Its not for everyone but who says it has to be?
Also, I believe the P7 has been in and out of production because its just expensive to produce. When they sell for a thousand bucks and an M&P or Glock can basically do everything it does it doesn't make business sense to keep producing it. You just not going to sell the numbers you are of the polymer weapons. H&K is a business after all. There are also a lot of other good weapons that are no longer in production. Colt has gone bankrupt several times, that doesn't prove the 1911 or the AR15 are bad weapons.

The best thing about it is that it is about the same size as a G19, but holds half the ammo.

The tone of this comment may be why you don't get the responses you wish for. I'm sure there was a much more positive way to phrase that. The "Kaboom" response of mine could have been better too. My apologies.

 

[Billy Shears]

The tone of this comment may be why you don't get the responses you wish for. I'm sure there was a much more positive way to phrase that. The "Kaboom" response of mine could have been better too. My apologies.

I have to agree here. It's kind of absurd to make an obviously sneering and derogatory comment about something, and then get your back up when people get offended by your unnecessarily vituperative input.

 

[jon_in_wv]

vituperative?? ZOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!

That went right over my head Billy.

I do know that for two years I practiced and practiced with my M&P. My first outing with my P7 I was able to out shoot my M&P. That says a lot to me. I think the reason is that the P7 fits my hand to well. If I "point" my P7 at a small object across the room and check my sights I'm always right on. That means to me that it fits my hand and points very naturally for me. That is a big factor in shooting well. Also, when I take my P7 out of the holster and put it in my small gun safe in my bedroom I KNOW its safe if I'm not squeezing the cocker. The same thing goes for re holstering. While I try to be very conscious of keeping my finger off the trigger the M&P and Glock are pretty unforgiving if you forget. That doesn't make either of them unsafe but it does make handling the P7 nice. Shooting it is where the real magic is. They just have a very different "feel".