what makes an HK P7 so great?

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Why do we continue to say the P7 is complicated? It has an practically the same parts count as the 1911 and is very close to the parts count of the Glock or M&P. Its no more complicated than they are. If actually has fewer parts than many other weapons and with the exception of the cocker it actually has the simplest firing cycle of all the weapons I mentioned. I don't think being complicated is a fair assessment.

The weight is something I haven't taken much issue with either. If you compare it loaded with my M&P loaded with 12 rounds of 9mm the difference is small. It is also thinner and carries closer to the body than my M&P and I think it actually carries equally well on the waist.
 
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The gun is very fast and instinctive to get into operation. Since the safety-off action of the 1911 and BHP should be conducted on the draw stroke, I'm not sure it's actually faster in practice, but it certainly is not slower. I'm not sure about how IDPA handles weapon condition on various courses of fire, but if my gun is out the safety is off in "real" use, so this difference is probably moot.

However, it has a VERY good trigger combined with the utter simplicity of operation of modern striker-fired duty pistol. This is a nice combination.

The manual of arms is not awkward. It is, in fact, utterly fluid and instinctive. It is, however, unique. I tend to agree that unless you are dedicated to doing a lot of cross-training, you should stick with the P7 for defensive use. I also think the "problem" is a one-way problem, as long as we're talking about designs without an external safety. IOW, if you practice heavily on a P7, you can transition to a Glock or M&P without a problem. However, if you practice heavily on a Glock or M&P, you may forget to squeeze-cock the P7, or, you may not have fully engrained the last-three-fingers-squeeze-but-the-trigger-finger-doesn't response needed on the P7.

Mike
 
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Why do we continue to say the P7 is complicated? It has an practically the same parts count as the 1911 and is very close to the parts count of the Glock or M&P.
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I'd venture a guess that it has to do with detail stripping. I haven't actually checked the parts count, but detail stripping a 1911 or a Glock is fairly simple. The P7, well, there is some frustration that goes into getting everything back together, at least there was for mine.

Is this some Hunt Brothers scheme?
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I wasn't trying to corner the market so much as dollar cost averaging. My first one was from a nice guy who let it go for $650 back when they cost a good deal more than that, but then I needed a backup and my wife decided she needed one, so my 1st 3 got expensive. When the police trade ins came in for much cheaper, I figured if I bought enough of them I could get my cost per P7 down to acceptable levels.
 
Go shoot some IDPA matches and come back and talk to me.
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I don't know what IDPA would help me with that my tours in Iraq and Afghanistan haven't covered, but thanks for the invite.
I'll buy 9mmepiphany's argument that it's the fastest from an uncocked, ultra-safe condition, but I don't see how the P7 could be faster (or slower, for that matter) than any DA/SA, striker-fired, revolver, 1911, etc. In all cases, you are pulling your gun, aiming, and shooting. Same as with the P7.
I do like the design, though. You can't beat it for being innovative!
 
I agree detail stripping my be complicated. With the grips off I can clean everywhere I intend to and I'm not interested in upgrading with a "match" component like you would on a 1911 but I can imagine detail stripping it may not be fun.
 
Is it fair to say that the P7 is more difficult to put back together than most semi-autos? I don't have one but have been tossing the P7 around in my head for a while now. I actually called CDNN about a month ago with credit card in hand. When they found out I live in Maryland they informed me that they won't ship to Marland. So end of deal. I ended up getting a Sig P229 instead from my local guy.

But...........I keep coming back to the P7 on the internet and am intrigued by them. They're just so different. I've always liked 'different' or 'quircky'. But I've heard that before that they may be more difficult to deal with. I may still end up with one because I just keep coming back. I'm following three of them now on GB.
 
We are only talking about DETAIL stripping. Something you would likely never have to do with one. Field stripping for cleaning is very easy. Since the barrel is attached to the frame cleaning it is a snap. It does get pretty dirty though. The P7s are supposed to run dirty from what I've read.
 
Hey Jon, thanks for clarifying. I really must get serious again about getting one. I just bought a gun so I have to wait at least 30 days. That plus the wife is going to kill me if a get another gun before fall. I've already bought three this year. But after I wait a while I'm going to find one and put this P7 obsession to bed.
 
I've always wanted on since I first saw them but at more than a grand that was OUT. When I saw the P7s for under 600 I told my wife I had to get one before they were gone. I've passed up to many $65 SKSs, $150 Makarovs, and dirt cheap Mausers and Enfields to let this deal get by me. The only downside to buying mine was that I paid $589 from CDNN and they dropped the price to $499 the same week I bought mine. They can still be ordered for $599 and they are worth every penny of that. The SIG P6s are a steal too but I've spent way to much on optics and my Savage for another handgun purchase right now.
 
Dang waterhouse, you have a lot of P7's!

My buddy just bought one of these for his wife, and they love it. Ive handled it a few times, but havent shot it yet. Looks and feels like a well made pistol. Alot of people rave about their accuracy, I wouldnt mind having one someday!
 
When I was looking at them a month ago, CDNN still had some of those two-tones in excellant condition for $650, which thought was pretty good. If I wasn't living in this nanny state I would have one already. Not that I'm disappointed with the Sig that I got instead, just that I made my move on the P7 first only to be shot down by CDNN for living here.

Somebody on Gun Broker will have one when I'm ready. Only it will surely be more than $650.
 
Is it fair to say that the P7 is more difficult to put back together than most semi-autos?
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As mentioned, that is just for detail stripping. There is no reason to do this unless you have a parts breakage or, like me, you get bored one afternoon and decide to test the limits of your mechanical abilities.

As for field stripping, I have yet to find a gun that I can field strip and then reassemble quicker than the P7. You drop the mag, push a button, bring the slide back a bit and lift up.

I just unholstered mine, cleared it, and inserted an empty magazine. I field stripped it against an analog watch, so I don't have fractions, but on average it took me less than 3 seconds to field strip. Putting it back together takes between 3-6 seconds, depending on whether I get the piston lined up the first time or if I have to wiggle it a bit.
 
Waterhouse and Jon, I sincerely thank you for clearing that up. I will get one after my latest buying spree ends and things simmer down a little.

I'm in the process of buying a CZ 75B. When my wife found out about this purchase, she told me to shoot myself with it. So I need to slow down and wait a while for a P7.
 
Yes it is complicated. Yes, other pistols may require as many parts as in a P7 series, BUT not all those parts are required to move in order to operate the cocking mechanism in order to fire.

Rather than a detriment, it is exactly this complicated design that makes the P7 so "cool" and different. Like an automatic watch does more than just tell time. This complication is a tribute to the inventiveness of man.
 

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Isn't this considered the model of simplicity and reliability? (see pic) The difference is the P7 only requires you to do this once. The revolver uses all these parts every time you pull the trigger. Thats why I say its not that complicated. Also, you are seeing not only the cocking mechanism but the trigger, trigger bar, etc.... in that picture. if you look at a Glocks trigger mechanism, which is also considered very simple, you would see something very similar parts wise. I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just saying it isn't MORE complicated than any other weapon. I like your pic though, it is an elegant design. When I took the grips off my P7 and saw what I kind went OOOOOOOOO. Neato.
 

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As an aside, revos are often cited (correctly, IMO) as being more reliable than semi-autos. Their malfunction drill is "pull the trigger again", and they are nearly impervious to ammo-related malfunctions as long as you have seated the rounds properly (very slight possibility of debris preventing proper seating) and have checked the rounds for being in-spec dimensionally. Basically, any of the "common" things that can go wrong with a revo can be prevented by doing your part ahead of time by checking your ammo and cleaning the gun. However, when they do fail, they usually fail in ways that turn them into paperweights until delivered to a gunsmith, whereas most malfunctions in an autopistol can be solved via in-the-field immediate-action or remedial-action drills.

The picture above shows why.

Back on topic, I don't have a problem with the complexity of the P7, or well-made revolvers.

Mike
 
My point isn't a revolver vs auto point, merely that the P7 shouldn't be criticized for it complexity when its in the same league as its counterparts. The mechanism in the pic above, similar to a revolver is actually a pretty simple series of levers and springs and there is actually little to go wrong with it. Once the cocking lever is depressed the actual number of remaining moving parts in the firing cycle I would wager is less or at least comparable to other autos.
Who really care anyhow? I think my P7 is awesome. Its the only gun I've bought that is totally stock and I have no desire to upgrade or change it. It compares very favorably with my M&P 9C and it has textured grips and Ameriglo night sights. Bone stock I would have given the advantage to the P7 though. One thing I really like about the P7 is the grip. It is FLAT. In my opinion this aids in your instinctive indexing of the weapon on target. Weapons with a rounder grip can get canted left or right in your hand and you can't really feel it until you are hunting for your front sight. The P7 points oh so good. Add the fixed barrel and its very, very accurate shooting. My first two shots from my P7 literally went into the same hole. I had to walk downrange to see where my second shot went. I knew I hadn't missed and closer inspection showed me this sucker can SHOOT.
 
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