What would you do?

[harmonic]

You walk into a convenience store and there is a man holding a gun on the clerk. Neither the clerk nor the robber know you are there. The robber has his back to you. This is all you know at this point.

You're carrying a legal handgun. You also have your cell phone. There is no one else in the store that you can see.

After you vote, explain your answer. If you remember, there was just such a scenario a few weeks ago.

 

[mercop]

What if I only have my non lethal handgun?

Given the situation as described attempt a CNS headshot without a verbal command. This is a felonly in progress. If I yell to the BG and startle him or my shot does no achieve CNS incapacition there is a very good chance that he will pop off at least one round.

 

[Eightball]

"I feared for my life and the life of the clerk, officer. I had no way of knowing if he would just turn around and shoot me, or immediately open fire and kill the clerk, and did all that I could."

You *COULD* dial 911, immediately hang up, fire, and then when 911 calls back, explain the situation.

 

[chris in va]

That's a tough one and a scenerio I've thought about more than once.

The vast majority of robbers use a firearm as a leverage tool, nothing more. They wave it around to get compliance. Many times it's either fake, non functional or something cheap they managed to acquire.

We're not police, nor should we believe carrying a firearm gives us that authority.

But I've read more than once about average armed citizens intervening on a robbery in progress. Really we don't know WHAT we'll do until it actually happens. I wonder myself if I have the 'guts' to stand up to an attack.

 

[CWL]

This "scenario" gets posted on THR every few months.

So you don't see anyone. Doesn't mean there isn't another accomplice in the back with other hostages or behind some shelves. What about an armed lookout outside the store and behind you?

 

[Boomerang]

I'd retreat because I don't want to be blasted by the kid with the shotgun at the back of the store.

 

[mercop]

Why to people always add to the situation given instead of dealing with the facts as presented? Of course you could add details pro or con all you want, but I believe the idea is to show what you think you would do given the circumstances given by the OP.


As far as retreating goes, you know what is in front of you but not what is behind you. From the robberies I have investigated the odds are that the get a way driver is in front of or behind the store.

 

[lorddal]

slip back out quickly dial 911 inform them of the situation and stay on the phone giving updates as I could If the Perp leaves the building on foot try to stay far enough back to remain safe and keep giving 911 directions if the perp leaves in a vehicle give a discription and plate numbers

 

[TAB]

I'm leaving and dailing 911. No reason to start a gun battle where people could be hurt.( I can asure you, any idoit can pull the trigger before you can draw, aim and fire) now if shots are fired or they are trying to take people away with them, then yes I would draw my weapon and engage. Otherwise, let them take the money and go.

 

[GHF]

Florida Approach

776.031 Use of force in defense of others.--A person is justified in the use of force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on, or other tortious or criminal interference with, either real property other than a dwelling or personal property, lawfully in his or her possession or in the possession of another who is a member of his or her immediate family or household or of a person whose property he or she has a legal duty to protect. However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person does not have a duty to retreat if the person is in a place where he or she has a right to be.

As you can see from the quote of the law (http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0776/ch0776.htm), and the fact that armed robbery is a forceable felony, that you would be legally able to react immedately with deadly force.

The perp has established clear capability and indicated clear intent to perform death or serious bodily injury on the clerk at their discretion; as long as this is true, deadly force is appropriate.

 

[RoadkingLarry]

My name is Larry not (Dirty)Harry, I'm gonna back out and call 911 and watch and wait.

 

[possum]

as long as i, or no other inicent bystandard is being threatned and put in danger than i would allow him to take th e money or whatever it was that he was there for and go.

if it became an active shooter situation then i would engage the bad guy.

if he started using violence ie physical abuse to get what he wanted, i would use force to stop him.

if he came in pulled a gun and said give me all your money, than i would stay there, wit for him to get what he wants and leave and then i would call the police with a detailed discription of him and the situation.

 

[rrruuunnn]

i'd prefer to call 911 and hide. obtain as much info on the BG. and let the cops chase him. if i was 99% convinced that he is going to shoot the clerk, i would draw my weapon......

 

[rrruuunnn]

i forgot to mention that if he saw me and points the gun at me, i would take cover and fire.

 

[Cuda]

Are you absolutely sure the guy with the gun is the bad guy? It could be the other way around and you might just shoot the good guy.. I would retreat and call 911..

C

 

[rrruuunnn]

having had our store robbed twice last year. sometimes it's quite obvious. the way they are dressed. what they are shouting.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Draw, wait for the BG to point his weapon away for a second, maybe toss something across the store to draw his attention, and then open fire. I don't want to risk the chance of him reflexively firing and hitting the clerk when I fire.
If I don't get a clean shot though, I'm not gonna chase him down and fire. If I don't get an opportunity to fire before he leaves, it's up to the police after that.

Yes there are unknowns. But if lives are at stake, I'm prepared to risk mine to save someone, and second guessing can get people killed. There could be a whole'nother squad of BGs with full battle rattle and NVGs outside waiting for me. But as it stands with what I know there is an innocent person about to get murdered, and I can stop it. As long as we're adding stuff to the scenario without asking the OP, what if you're crouching behind the potato chip and Combo aisle with your weapon in hand thinking about your next more, and the BG fires two rounds into the clerks chest and bolts out the door. Now you just watched an innocent person die and you could have stopped it. Those are gonna be some fun dreams you'll have when and if you get to sleep that night.

 

[Biker]

Cuda brought up a great point. Something to think about.

Biker

 

[AdamSean]

I would hide and dial 911 keeping a good view of what is going on with my firearm in hand. At this point, I don't know all the details so I don't want to rush into something I may regret. But if the BG started heading in my direction showing any kind of hostilty, I would order him to drop his gun before he could get a clear sight of me.

At the given data though, I don't who is really the BG. It could be an undercover LEO making a bust.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

911

Thank you for calling 911; your call is very important to us. To continue in English, say or press "one," para espanol . . .

Thank you. Please speak your selection from the following options: if you need the police, please say POLICE; if you need the fire department, please say FIRE; if you need an ambulance, please say AMBULANCE; if you need further assistance in selection your emergency service, please say OPERATOR.

I'm sorry, BANG! is not a valid option. Please repeat your request, or stay on the line for the next available operator.

Your call is very important to us . . .

 

[mekender]

considering that the average convenience store is at best twice the size of my living room, engagement at long distance isnt a problem... also considering that EVERY convenience store i have ever been in has the entry door very close to the front counter, chances are that i was heard and seen by the BG upon entering. this whole, no one saw you enter just doenst happen, those stores are designed to prevent that because theft is so prevalant... just because neither party acknowledges that i am present does not mean that they are unaware of my presence... at that point, it is a safe bet that i have become a part of the robbery/hostage situation...

therefore, i would have to assume that i was a victim just the same as the clerk... i would also have to assume that my life was in severe danger... at that point, i would have to also assume that me attempting to retreat would place my life in grave danger because not only is there a chance that i would have to put the threat out of my sight, but the BG could also interpret it to mean that i was afraid or attempting to call for help...

the only logical choice is to act quickly and decisively to end the situation by stopping the threat... at that point, there are two separate danger situations...

1) me and the BG

2) the clerk and the BG

and frankly, i am acting to preserve myself, not the clerk... if i was in a situation where i saw the BG BEFORE i entered the store, i would retreat and call 911... but my person being inside the store while an armed robbery takes place is a critical situation, and must be dealt with as such... hesitation is just as deadly as the bullets that pierce the skin

 

[Timthinker]

My suggestion is to back out quietly and phone the police. Let us say for the sake of argument that the armed robber is a lone bandit. Do you really want to kill him over the money and live with that for the remainder of your life? Many armed robbers take the money and run. Does this mean all do? No, some panic and shoot people. Some are mean SOBs. But I would not want to take a human life if I thought another option was possible. This is a character test senario in my opinion.


Timthinker

 

[BikerRN]

Given this scenario here's what I would do:

Back out, find cover, draw off duty weapon and call 911 for the on duty LEO's to deal with the situation. There is no need or call for starting a gunfight if no shots have been fired and nobody has been hurt. Most Armed Robbers, no I will not post a link to the stats you can get them from the DOJ and it's late and I'm tired, complete their robbery without shooting or killing anyone. They want the money. That is not to say that they will not shoot because every "encounter" is a confrontation.

If you think you will "save the day" and be a hero, complete with keys to the city, I have a bridge to sell you. Clint Smith said it best, "Every bullet you fire has a lawyer attatched to it." Personally I don't like attatching lawyers to my bullets, it gets very exspensive very quickly.

Biker

 

[coat4gun]

as long as i, or no other innocent bystander is being threatened and put in danger than i would allow him to take the money or whatever it was that he was there for and go.

I think the clerk is an innocent bystander, and he/she is already being threatened. People seem to forget that we didn't start this situation, the guy trying to rob the store did. Pointing a gun at someone and demanding money is not about the money, it is about threatening someones life. We as the good guys have an obligation to stop this kind of evil. Doing nothing in the face of it does nothing but encourage more evil.

With that said, I don't want to shoot anyone, and the robber may not either, but he started down this road on his own accord and may have to pay the consequences of his actions. The clerk did nothing to warrant having their life threatened, the robber did do something and may have to pay with their own because of THEIR OWN CHOICE. Bad choices sometimes have bad consequences.

Since I do not read minds, and I have never heard of a situation where someone with good intentions would point a gun at a store clerk, I would have to stop the threat immediately, without warning.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

So you don't see anyone. Doesn't mean there isn't another accomplice in the back with other hostages or behind some shelves. What about an armed lookout outside the store and behind you?

My flying monkeys would take care of them.

I'd open fire because he's already threatening the clerk's life. He took that step, and when he did, he put other variables into play. Like potentially losing his life.

Maybe the lawyers would run me down like a pack of hyenas, but the clerk would probably be grateful, as would their family, friends, etc.