Where to go for defensive training?

[duns]

I just saw someone mention Gunsite as a great place to go for defensive handgun training.

I've been a gun owner for about 9 months, have a TX CHL, carry daily, and shoot regularly at the range with 5 different handguns. Would like to move to the next level of prociency with respect to defending myself in a life or death situation.

Your suggestions for courses would be welcomed. I am in Texas (Houston) but don't mind traveling for a course that is exceptional.

 

[gun guy]

It is hard, and expensive, for someone not connected with an agency, to get first class, next level training. I spoke with the fine folks at gunsite to offer my condolences after the passing of the Master. After talking with one of their instructors about the training offered, it seemed impressive. I have never been there, so this is all observational, but from what i see and know about the people there, and the legacy left behind, if you are serious about aquiring world class talent, outside of an agency placing you, Gunsight ranch would be hard to beat. I believe they still offer a basic handgun course, that would probably put you above the average shooter by 50-75% There advanced course would probably move you into the upper 20% the shooting world. This of course depends on many things, some just, have a talent for painting, or music, firearms, etc. some don't. But if you can walk and chew bubblegum at the same time, and you have the money to spend, you will improve your skills, and confidence with a trip to Gunsite. I understand Massad Ayoob has a school too. I know nothing about it, but i'm sure it's on the same level. Beyond that, cheaper courses, offered by Yosemite Sam the gunslinger, you might not get what you paid for. Thats my 2 cents.

 

[breacher]

Gunsite is a first class facility. I've been thru almost every class they have between my military and LE careers. Clint Smith & Thunder Ranch was excellent as well.

Stay away from Frontsite in Las Vegas. Piazza is a con man and world class BS master. *** is a 4 weapon combat master? He has more lawsuits against him than you can shake a stick at.

 

[9mmepiphany]

*** is a 4 weapon combat master?

The 4 Weapon Combat Master is something Chuck Taylor came up with when he was lead instructor at Gunsite. Jeff Cooper referred to him as the finest tactical shooter he'd ever met.

Piazza paid Taylor to teach him to be proficient with the four weapons (handgun, SMG, shotgun and rifle) and he scored high enough on the test to qualify as a Master.

Not that I would recommend to you go there, I'm just addressing the question. I'd also suggest that there are better schools to attend than Tactical Response

The classic fixed site schools that i would recommend would be Gunsite, Thunder Ranch (Clint Smith), Bill Rogers and Lethal Force Inst (Massad Ayoob). In TX, you might check into Wayne Dobbs...he is an excellent instructor and a Mod on 10-8 forums

 

[BullfrogKen]

Where in Texas? I hear it's a big state.


And this might be better served if it were moved to S&T. Where there is conveniently a sticky on this very topic I might add . . .


Armed Self Defense Training Links - SHOOTING SCHOOLS/INSTRUCTORS ETC

 

[9mmepiphany]

He's home based in the D/FW area, but he travels

I think you're right, I'll move it

 

[Frank Ettin]

I've been to Gunsite twice (once for handgun and once for rifle) and heartily recommend it without reservation. Both time it was an excellent experience.

I've also taken Massad Ayoobs LFI-1 class (which is now know as MAG40, see http://massadayoobgroup.com/) and think it's an excellent choice for anyone who carries a gun. Mas covers the legal and social aspects of the use of lethal force more thoroughly than anyone else I know.

 

[sidheshooter]

Way back in the day, the ultimate 1-2 punch used to be LFI-1 and Gunsite 250. I'm not sure all that much has changed. There are probably options out there that meet, but i doubt any that exceed.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I believe that many folks dive into a tactical course/school, before they have a solid grounding in shooting fundamentals. Being able to place shots quickly (.2 sec splits) and accurately (all in the "A" zone), draw and present you gun with your first shot breaking as your hands reach extension and being able to swap mags (1.5-2 sec) without fumbling are good basic skills before "taking it to the next level".

I highly recommend a shooting course from Bruce Gray to get your fundamentals down www.Grayguns.com

 

[possum]

Handgun Training:
I highly recommend Tactical Response, Fighting and Advanced Fighting Pistol (especially taken back to back) www.tacticalresponse.com check out aar's and pics from courses at www.getoffthex.com (it is thier online forum). Lot of like minded people on there to share thier training experiences with, not only at Tactical Response but other schools as well.

I also highly recommend you look into Rob Pincus' Combat Focus Shooting Program, www.icetraining.us

 

[Al Thompson]

Better to take a good local class now than a great class later. There seems to be a good school 65 miles west of DFW according to Bartholomew Roberts.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=278688&highlight=training

http://www.tacproshootingcenter.com/

 

[GEM]

Near Dallas - http://www.northtexastactical.com/About.html Hany Mahoud.

Also, search on Steve Moses near Dallas.

If you want to come down I-35, www.krtraining.com KRtraining. Austin area.

I know all of these folks quite well and recommend them.

The other recommendations are good too. The above, I know the best.

No need to go out of state for the basics and advanced courses. KRtraining also brings Tom Givens to the area and he is great.

Glenn

 

[smince]

Suarez International teaches several classes in TX each year:

www.suarezinternational.com

 

[sidheshooter]

In addition to Al's point (local training is often good, available and (relatively) inexpensive), there is the other thing about getting in good with your local guys: the local guys are often a connection to the big cheese players. My first teacher was a very good local guy that nobody outside the area had ever heard of, but he was an LFI affiliate instructor who brought Mas through every year. The guy who's curriculum I'm currently digesting as time and money allows brings John Farnam every year... and so it goes.

Better wisdom probably tells me to ammend my above answer to a 1-2-3 punch: local hero, LFI-1 type class, GS/API 250 type class...

 

[Harold Mayo]

In Houston? Why not stay local and try Brian Hoffner?

 

[cbrgator]

Can anybody recommend good classes in Florida? Preferably in the south?

 

[Harold Mayo]

Bushido Tactical

 

[Zak Smith]

I recommend Tactical Response. They have classes all over the US.

 

[RatDrall]

I'll second smince's recommendation of Suarez International. They do classes at ranges all over the country.

It is hard, and expensive, for someone not connected with an agency, to get first class, next level training.

There are good people out there who will teach other good people to do nasty things to badguys, regardless of agency status. Suarez International is known for doing just that.

 

[sidheshooter]

Can anybody recommend good classes in Florida?

Mas Ayoob is in Live Oak, FL...


http://massadayoobgroup.com/

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by duns: I've been a gun owner for about 9 months, have a TX CHL, carry daily, and shoot regularly at the range with 5 different handguns. Would like to move to the next level of prociency with respect to defending myself in a life or death situation.

I do not know enough to recommend something in your area, but as one who has been shooting handguns off and on since almost 1960, primarily at paper targets, and who recently attended a high performance defensive pistol shooting class, I have to agree with the following from 9mmepiphany:

I believe that many folks dive into a tactical course/school, before they have a solid grounding in shooting fundamentals. Being able to place shots quickly (.2 sec splits) and accurately (all in the "A" zone), draw and present you gun with your first shot breaking as your hands reach extension and being able to swap mags (1.5-2 sec) without fumbling are good basic skills before "taking it to the next level".

You need to decide what "the next level" should be for you.

The nine hour course I took involved personalized, one on one instruction in the fundamentals of grip, sight picture, trigger pull and let-off, and rapid fire, followed by presentation, rapid fire at multiple steel targets, reloading, and finally, the draw, all with a lot of practice. Group size wasn't even considered, after an initial demo of the student's target skill. I had never seen anyone fire and reload as fast and effectively as the instructors, all of whom were ranked competitors.

There are follow-on courses involving shooting while running in various directions, shooting from swinging bridges, shooting from cover and concealment, etc., but I really think the time would be wasted unless one has made himself or herself reasonably proficient in the fundamentals.

I had spent most of my life shooting one handed and I started using a two handed hold more than two years ago, but for me, the "next level" was to train in the basics described by 9mmepiphany.

Hitting (multiple) targets effectively and FAST and without fumbling is a good way to describe it.

I hope you find this helpful.

 

[GEM]

Kleanbore is correct. One reason I recommended KRtraining - not that far from Houston is that they have an intergrated sequence that starts with basic skills. You don't get into the advanced sequences until you have attended the lower level classes.

No involvement with them, except knowning the folk.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Hitting (multiple) targets effectively and FAST and without fumbling is a good way to describe it.

A good way to see if your skills are good enough to move onto the next level is by trying a standardized skill test.

We used to test ourselves with the El Presidente drill...but it takes 3 targets and there needs to be additional care taken when you turn. There really is a better way to do this.

The latest skill test that is easy to administer is the F.A.S.T. drill. all it takes is a timer, a 8" paper plate, a 3'x5' card and a range that will let you draw from the holster.

Both these test your ability to draw, get on target, trigger control, mag changes and target transitions. These should be basic skills you have to get the most out of a tactical course

 

[BullfrogKen]

I'd argue that an "advanced" skill level is little more than having mastered the basics.


Once we master the basic skills, our minds are free to concentrate on other things besides running the gun. There's nothing super-secret about shooting that you go to an "advanced" class to learn. The cirriculum in most courses that are marketed as somehow being advanced expect you've mastered those basics, or you shouldn't have signed up. The material the class will cover is going to consist of more complex problems, or simple problems presented at very compressed time intervals. Material like an efficient, smooth, and fast drawstroke generally isn't convered in an advanced class. The student is expected to have mastered that skill before arriving.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I am a big fan of Tac Pro Shooting Center as Al mentioned earlier. Paul Howe of Blackhawk Down/Delta fame also teaches out of a home range in Nacogdoches,TX. That might be more convenient to Houston than Mingus. Texas is pretty blessed with regards to good training available within a day's travel.