Which school of thought do you fall into re: hunting w/o permission?

[BADUNAME37]

If you want to hunt private land...then buy some!

Or ask someone you know to hunt their land, or lease some.

Otherwise stick to public land.

If you walk through a parking lot and see a locked car...do you feel entitled to break into it? If the car next to it is unlocked...then is everything in it yours? Because the owner didn't leave a sign that said keep out?

If you walk through a parking lot and see someone left their headlamps on, and you are in a rural area, and no one around and the battery is dying (this is an older car), would you turn off the headlights?

Some would, some wouldn't. In the past, I would in a heartbeat, now, today with things as they are, I am not so sure (especially after reading some of these posts!). Suppose the person shows up and thinks I was trying to steal their car? I would immediately show them how warm their headlamps are and I would also tell them to turn them on to see how dim they now are.

By the way, I have some jumper cables, I will make sure you can start your car BEFORE I leave you alone here in this parking lot all by yourself.

See? I'm easy to get along with.

If I see someone on my land, a resonable explanation from them would be fine with me and we would each be on our merry way, I would even wish them good luck at getting a big buck.

I had a game warden for a neighbor that I met up with right in the middle of my property during deer season. My reaction to him? Feel free to hunt on my property whenever you want.

Robbing someone is a bit different than accidentally crossing the corner of their property that is not marked in any way, shape or form. If I saw a tree stand, I would not go into the tree stand, just like I would not enter someone's home!

Sitting in someone's living room when they are not home, grabbing a soda from the refrigerator and watching TV in their living room is a JUST a tad bit different than accidentally crossing over their land that is 1/2 mile from their house and does not have any markings at all on it, whatsoever.

If you don't want people accidentally crossing over your land, then perhaps you should do what a friend and I did with his 80 acres. We put up about 400 signs so there would be NO WAY someone could say "oh, I didn't see any signs!" In the thickest woods, the signs were maybe 3' apart!

May I add that the state in which I reside makes it mandatory to REGISTER ANY AND ALL posted land with the Town Clerk. Signs could be all over the place, however, if you have not registered your land as "POSTED" with the town clerk, those signs mean absolutely nothing. In this state, try shooting someone on land that is "not properly posted" and guess who goes to JAIL? I'll give you a little hint. It certainly would NOT BE THE HUNTER.

For those of you comparing accidentally crossing someone else's property with "camping out" in their living room -- if you are driving along in a neighborhood and realize you are supposed to be going the other way, would you use someone's driveway to pull into to turn around? If the answer is no, then I don't believe you. If the answer is yes, then why are you pulling onto someone's driveway whom you do not even know?

 

[srsmith]

I voted "A".

In Wisconsin, wild game is subject to state regulation, regardless of where it lives. A hunting license is permission to harvest it in season.
Owners of land and can choose who uses it.
Hunters are responsible for understanding for knowing the boundaries.
This sounds hard, but actually is very easy to handle by picking up a plat map for the county.
(I imagine this might not work so well out West in big country.)

Some owners will give permission. Many will not, due to bad experiences with gates left open, property damage, theft, littering etc.

For me, this is also about SAFETY.
We have a number of invited hunters on our place for deer seasons.
It is important that we know where hunters are so we can be absoulutely safe.
Uninvited unknown hunters wandering around shooting is simply not a safe situation.
If someone comes by asking to track and recover a deer from our place, I will help them find it.

Have fun and be safe !

-steve

 

[Leaky Waders]

I think there's a big difference between someone straying onto some corner of mismarked land and someone who knows the land is not theirs, they haven't asked for permission, and they don't respect your property.

It's not so much about stealing...it's the self-entitlement and disrespect without even asking.

Perhaps my parking lot analogy wasn't correct...helping yourself to something not yours.

Try this then...someone stops and knocks on your door and asks if they can use your commode. You say yes, no, or whatever, or direct them to a public restroom. To me...that's option A.

The other options are...you are sitting on your couch watching tv...you hear your commode flush and some stranger walks out and says oh, i didn't realize I couldn't walk into your house without announcing myself and you posting that I couldn't. By the way, you could use some softer toilet paper and some more hand sanitizer.

It's rude, it's unethical, it's dangerous, and it's disrespectful.

 

[DammitBoy]

Edited version:

Hunting someone else's land without permission is unethical and unsportsmanlike.

If you have no problem hunting on someone else's land without permission, you are unethical, you are not a sportsmen and your behavior reflects badly on those of us who do respect other peoples property.

 

[BADUNAME37]

I think there's a big difference between someone straying onto some corner of mismarked land and someone who knows the land is not theirs, they haven't asked for permission, and they don't respect your property.

It's not so much about stealing...it's the self-entitlement and disrespect without even asking.

Perhaps my parking lot analogy wasn't correct...helping yourself to something not yours.

Try this then...someone stops and knocks on your door and asks if they can use your commode. You say yes, no, or whatever, or direct them to a public restroom. To me...that's option A.

The other options are...you are sitting on your couch watching tv...you hear your commode flush and some stranger walks out and says oh, i didn't realize I couldn't walk into your house without announcing myself and you posting that I couldn't. By the way, you could use some softer toilet paper and some more hand sanitizer.

It's rude, it's unethical, it's dangerous, and it's disrespectful.

I completely agree with everyone.
I do not hunt on other people's land (that I am aware of, anyway).

If I do hunt on their land, it might just be a corner or some boundary that is kind of a wierd setup.

Not many people post around here. I have plenty of family and friends and also my own property where I can hunt. My father actually had a neighbor tell him that he always hunted on my father's land and he was not about to stop, no matter what my father says.

I AM NOT that kind of person!

 

[jbkebert]

As a land owner I have been faced with the problems of people hunting my land without permission. The small farm that my two brothers and I own is plaqued with suckers thinking its open ground. I have gone up there its around 50 miles from my house or so. To find the gates open and 4-5 pickups driving around the pasture hunting coyotes. I approached them and asked just what the hell they were doing on my place. I get some smart ass comment of how they are doing me a favor. . If someone asks me to hunt either the farm or my land around the house I may or may not grant premission. The problem with granting premission is that you can say okay for a day or a weekend or whatever. Next thing you no they are back with a buddy or two or three and just go in like they own the place. Then the next week the buddy who you still have never met is back with yet another guy you don't know. The crap pisses me off to no end. I hunt others land with premission only. When I get the okay to hunt I will engage in a gross amount of kiss a$$. I walk fence lines, I will chase cattle if they get out by my fault or not. I might stop over and take them a couple dozen eggs from our farm, or a fresh ham from the hogs we took to market, a sack full of home grown tomatoes what ever. Each time I plan to hunt they get a call a couple says prior to clear everything. At the end of that day i stop by their house and give a report on what I saw. I tell them about a tree laying over in the pasture or conditions of the crop fields in a certain area. Get premission and do not abuse it or you will lose the right quickly.

Sorry to vent but the crap people do makes it very very hard for others to find suitable land to hunt.

 

[Leaky Waders]

"I do not hunt on other people's land (that I am aware of, anyway)."

Me either

And, I'd turn the headlights off or push start or jump them too.

That reminds me...my brother and law and me were fishing in Maryland a couple of years ago and some old timer was stuck on the ramp. his battery had died.

So I pulled up to him and jumped him off. Well he pulls off looking all pissed off and everything and drove away. I'm wondering what the heck.

Anyways I get home, and we're getting fishing poles out of my pick-up and I see a set of jumper cables....his jumper cables. My brother in law threw them in the back thinking they were mine. LOL. I never saw the poor dude again...too bad...those gnarly cables are still under my tool box.

 

[oneounceload]

Trespassing is a no-no - would YOU want folks you don't know coming and hunting on your land? I have lived in several different states over the last 30 years - it was ALWAYS the responsibility of the hunter to know where he was, and to seek permission to hunt or it was considered trespass.

 

[BADUNAME37]

As a land owner I have been faced with the problems of people hunting my land without permission. The small farm that my two brothers and I own is plaqued with suckers thinking its open ground. I have gone up there its around 50 miles from my house or so. To find the gates open and 4-5 pickups driving around the pasture hunting coyotes. I approached them and asked just what the hell they were doing on my place. I get some smart ass comment of how they are doing me a favor. . If someone asks me to hunt either the farm or my land around the house I may or may not grant premission. The problem with granting premission is that you can say okay for a day or a weekend or whatever. Next thing you no they are back with a buddy or two or three and just go in like they own the place. Then the next week the buddy who you still have never met is back with yet another guy you don't know. The crap pisses me off to no end. I hunt others land with premission only. When I get the okay to hunt I will engage in a gross amount of kiss a$$. I walk fence lines, I will chase cattle if they get out by my fault or not. I might stop over and take them a couple dozen eggs from our farm, or a fresh ham from the hogs we took to market, a sack full of home grown tomatoes what ever. Each time I plan to hunt they get a call a couple says prior to clear everything. At the end of that day i stop by their house and give a report on what I saw. I tell them about a tree laying over in the pasture or conditions of the crop fields in a certain area. Get premission and do not abuse it or you will lose the right quickly.

Sorry to vent but the crap people do makes it very very hard for others to find suitable land to hunt.

I agree, anytime I have ever hunted on someone else's property, it was always cleaner than when I got there. I see a wrapper here, I pick it up, I see paper there, I pick it up. It's the same at the range. There are literally SLOBS all over the place, just look at all the junk people leave behind.

They come to the range, and they think since they "PAID THEIR DUES" they can shoot bottles and have broken glass all over, old car tires shot up, even the lock to the gate was cut off by someone, so now they cannot lock it until the new keys come out next Jan. 2nd!

The world today is not like it was when I was growing up in the late fifty's, sixty's, seventy's. Today everyone is out for themself. Just look at all the trash that was left behind after the inauguration! Then when the right-wingers had their rally, the place was spotless.

Some people think that everyone owes them something.

 

[ArmedBear]

I rather doubt that. There may be no "easy/convenient" way to know, but the difficulty involved in finding out....in no way relieves you of the moral responsibility to do so. Sorry.

Here's the problem. You have no idea what you're talking about. I explained it pretty thoroughly, and posted a map.

I know that Texas has almost no public land. That's not how it is here.

It's also not how the LAW is here. If it's not cultivated, developed or posted, and it's outside city limits, you can hunt there. "Posting" can include occasional fenceposts painted orange, so it's easy to do and hard to sabotage, but unimproved land must be marked if you want people to keep off. End of story.

Don't worry your pretty little head about it, though, there'd be no reason for me to hunt in Texas. You can have your stand over a tub of Purina Deer Chow, without any concern that I might trespass on your land.

Perhaps the Texans in this thread could stop for one second and understand that not everything is as it is in their state?

 

[jbkebert]

Perhaps the Texans in this thread could stop for one second and understand that not everything is as it is in their state?

I know a lot of Texan's and they will never come to that conclusion.

 

[BADUNAME37]

Here's the problem. You have no idea what you're talking about. I explained it pretty thoroughly, and posted a map.

I know that Texas has almost no public land. That's not how it is here.

It's also not how the LAW is here. If it's not cultivated, developed or posted, and it's outside city limits, you can hunt there. End of story.

Don't worry your pretty little head about it, though, there'd be no reason for me to hunt in Texas. You can have your stand over a tub of Purina Deer Chow, without any concern that I might trespass on your land.

Perhaps the Texans in this thread could stop for one second and understand that not everything is as it is in their state?

I agree!
It's the way you stated it is where you are, where I am. It is certainly NOT like TEXAS here!

 

[oneounceload]

AB, -

having lived in TX, ND, CO, and NV I understand what you're saying. CO and NV, like ID have a lot of open BLM public land - but there are still private sections scattered throughout. In both CO and NV, the owner was NOT required to post or fence, it was the responsibility of the hiker/hunter to know where they are using (at the time) maps, and now - GPS. Of course even in ND way back when, all you had to do was knock on the door and share when done and you'd have permission forever. Friend and I were even invited to come the night before, have dinner and get a bed to sleep in so we could get up early and be in the fields at the right time.....not too available like that any more - too many law-suit folks suing over everything......

 

[AKElroy]

there'd be no reason for me to hunt in Texas. You can have your stand over a tub of Purina Deer Chow, without any concern that I might trespass on your land.

B--You would sooo be missing out! Nothing more exciting than sitting in a box, baiting bambi & shooting from 15 yrds to get the blood flowing. I am heading to Floresville now to shoot some birdies; maybe I should grab a spinner decoy & wait for the dovies to cop a squat before blasting away just to keep the Texas theme going!!--

Dude--Were not QUITE that bad down here. While public land may be a sportsmans paradise, massive availability of private land is the ultimate exercize of freedom.

 

[ArmedBear]

Oh, I think that massive private land with good game on it can be a sportsman's paradise.

I was just responding to someone who attacked me for following my state's laws and hunting ethics, in the context of where I live and the overall environment here, because he doesn't have a clue and doesn't want to get one.

If I see a fence, I assume land is private until I can ascertain otherwise. If I see no fence, no posting of any sort, and no improvements or cultivation, then I assume the land is public, because around here, IT IS.

I don't knowingly trespass. But I don't carry around plat maps to keep me from traipsing on someone's unmarked, old, unproductive, unused mining claim in the middle of the National Forest. I don't have to. And landowners here post their land, too.

Furthermore, I'd follow the rules and conventions of any place I visited. In southeastern California, we hunted alfalfa fields without permission. It was the way things were done. There were no farmhouses nearby, there were no fences or signs, so the fields were legal for hunting. Row crops were not, because we had dogs and dog crap could cause government inspectors to order the whole crop destroyed.

In Idaho, it's not okay to hunt any cultivated area without permission, so I don't do it.

Whatever the rules/laws/conventions are where I'm hunting, I'll follow them. Just don't tell me I'm wrong because I don't follow Texas laws in Idaho -- I don't think someone is wrong for not following Idaho laws in Texas.

 

[Art Eatman]

For me it's situational. In general, I don't go onto another's land without permission, with or without fences and signs.

However: I own 40 acres within a subdivided many-section area. There are some 20,000 acres of small tracts with purely absentee owners. Some have never even seen their land; others don't come "play" on it for years at a time. So, for some 35 years or so I've pretty much hunted it as though it were my own. There are maybe a dozen other people who do the same. I've yet to have any problem with anybody.

 

[3pairs12]

I voted for B, becuase I dove hunt on a farm that I never got permission for. It is neither posted or fenced. I don't know who owns it could be county city or citizen. There are no structures or equipment. I pick up all of my trash including empties and don't drive through the fields. So if somebody asks me to leave I will. I also have a different farm that Ii do have permission to bird hunt on. Dove hunting is pretty big time here and people know when it opens. The ones that don't want people on their land post it the day before. It sems the ones that don't care don't post. If you don't buy that I'll take pictures of all the freshly planted no trespassing signs next Aug 31st.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

All land in Alabama is posted by law and requires permission in writing in your possession while hunting(or be accompanied by the landowner or his agent).

 

[jbkebert]

I am not sure about the rest of the country. Here in Kansas if I see a paticuar parcel of land that suits my fancy. I go to the county extension office and look at the map. The entire county if broken up into fire districts and the districts are broken up into parcels. The land owners name and # of acres is right there to be seen. I can usaully get their number from the extension office or there is always the phone book. Not to hard around here to find out who owns a peice of ground.

Another thing I do is to find the peice of land on Google earth. I can scout a area pretty well using arieal photo's. Then if my beleifs are still in favor of trying to hunt that area. I will contact the home owner in person. I have done my homework before. I don't walk up to a house blind I know their name, how much land, blah blah, blah. Then its sir and mam the whole time I am there.

 

[alemonkey]

If I catch someone trespassing on my (actually owned by my dad and brother in law) hunting land, they're getting turned in to law enforcement. Period. Jerks like that have no more right to be there hunting than I have a right to walk into their house uninvited. Doesn't matter if it's posted or not.

 

[JimKirk]

Like Alabama, all GEORGIA land is posted by law. If you are on it without permission, you're trespassing!

Jimmy K

 

[Clipper]

Do you have signs posted in your backyard telling people they can't hold keggers there? I fail to see how the onus is on the landowner to tell people not to trespass, any more than it's their responsibility to let people know not to steal or vandalize their property.The only exception being good faith mistakes about boundaries.

Also, morality is a constant; societal attitudes towards it differ, but the underlying concepts are the same whether people choose to ignore them or not.

Damn right. I don't want anyone on my place, and it would be the absolute acme of arrogance to think you or anyone else would feel any differently. Not to mention that in my state it's illegal, and I would expect to be prosecuted to the limit of the law, as I should, and as I would insist on for a trespasser on my property.


BTW, posting is not legally necessary here to be secure in your own property.

 

[RandyB]

I do not hunt where I am not welcome. Period.

 

[Flintknapper]

ArmedBear wrote:

Here's the problem. You have no idea what you're talking about. I explained it pretty thoroughly, and posted a map.

I think what the "problem" is that you have chosen to go off on a tangent.

I know that Texas has almost no public land. That's not how it is here.

Yes, we understand that. Many Western States have large land holdings available to the public. Texas is the Polar Opposite of that. Still, every western state I have hunted in did have maps available showing "most" of the private land holdings (especially if they fell within the boundaries of public land). Are you saying that Idaho does not?

It's also not how the LAW is here. If it's not cultivated, developed or posted, and it's outside city limits, you can hunt there.

This is tangent you got off on. The thread is not about what the Law may allow for, but the moral implications of knowingly entering upon another persons property. See quotes:

Dr Tad. Posted:

Please remember, this question is NOT asking about legality. "D" is legal IINM, nearly everywhere, and "B" is legal almost everywhere, if not everywhere. This is a MORAL question only!

Again, although interesting to note, I'm NOT asking about legalities (not asking about what the LAW IS). I'm asking about YOUR moral opinion of what the law SHOULD BE, if it were to comport you your morals/values.

From your own replies....you suggest that you would NOT do so. So, your poll vote logically should be (A).

"Posting" can include occasional fenceposts painted orange, so it's easy to do and hard to sabotage, but unimproved land must be marked if you want people to keep off. End of story.

That is interesting, but kind of bazaar that your State puts the burden on the landowner to secure his/her property from unwanted intrusion. But, with the large amount of public land available...perhaps this is the most expedient remedy. Not the question at hand though.

Don't worry your pretty little head about it, though, there'd be no reason for me to hunt in Texas.

Well....that is your choice of course. We would love to have you....and any other law abiding, ethical and upstanding sportsmen that want to visit our State.

You can have your stand over a tub of Purina Deer Chow, without any concern that I might trespass on your land.

Not sure where this is coming from really. We can offer you all types of hunting, from the very difficult to the very easy, the choice is yours. We are not concerned about you tresspassing here...because you'll basically be "rode out on a rail" (unless you were lost or had some other reasonable excuse). Again, the choice is yours.

Perhaps the Texans in this thread could stop for one second and understand that not everything is as it is in their state?

Actually we DO know there is an entire world out there besides Texas.....but sometimes we forget.




Take a deep breath friend, its going to be alright!

 

[scmerrill71]

I ussually stick with A.. In ohio your suppose to get permission from the porperty owner to hunt, but i have run across many ppl that dont , then they have the nerve to ask me if i do.I only hunt a 350 acre piece of my nieghbors land and i make sure i get permission every year.