Vern Humphrey
Member
And that attitude is exactly why so many landowners post their land.
Which school of thought do you fall into re: hunting w/o permission?
- Thread starter Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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BADUNAME37
Member
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Art Eatman is correct in that laws really do vary from state-to-state.
I apologize, I did not mean to be a smart-@**.
I'm sorry if that is how I came across.
I apologize, I did not mean to be a smart-@**.
I'm sorry if that is how I came across.
Vern Humphrey
Member
No apology necessary.
My point is, why not go to the courthouse and get the addresses of the landowers where you want to hunt and ask them? It's only common courtesy. And the worst they can do is say no.
Once you get permission, do something nice for the landowner -- offer him a hind quarter, or a fifth of good bourbon.
My point is, why not go to the courthouse and get the addresses of the landowers where you want to hunt and ask them? It's only common courtesy. And the worst they can do is say no.
Once you get permission, do something nice for the landowner -- offer him a hind quarter, or a fifth of good bourbon.
BADUNAME37
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Vern, you are right.
Where I live and hunt, I know pretty much who owns what and I have gotten permission over the years to hunt pretty much wherever. Farmers appreciate me vaporizing a few woodchucks that have been wreaking havoc in the middle of their fields.
As for offering them some of the meat, that is a terrific idea, one actually that I never heard of! I shall start doing that! If I shoot something on someone's land, I will offer them some of the meat, and they will surely appreciate me all the more.
I am extremely careful not to let the cows out, close all gates, and I even pick up other people's trash before I leave. I'm the kind of guy that likes to always leave the place in better shape than when I arrived.
The only way I would not do that is if I happened to get seriously ill while in the middle of hunting and had to go straight home and basically to bed. Then I might not pick up those Budweiser cans left by someone else.
Vern Humphrey
Member
There are a few people who have permission to hunt on my land. I tell them, "treat it as if you own it." And by that I mean with the same respect. People like that are always welcome back.
BADUNAME37
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I just won't offer them any smoking woodchuck meat.
Most times, the fur has a tendency to be all mixed up in the meat!
Most times, the fur has a tendency to be all mixed up in the meat!
Inspector said:
If I was your Judge and the Officer brought this case to me, I am sure I would be looking at the officer askance, and either dismiss, somehow, or find a way to Fine you with some minimal non-monetary payment such washing the library's windows one afternoon as "punishment", or something to that effect.
shiftyer1
Member
Inspector... when I was a kid we always gave a couple thick steaks to the land owner as a thank you. It was always well received especially if it was an older couple. Those were deer steaks, i'm not sure how woodchuck would go over. lol
Vern Humphrey
Member
I have known many a game warden to look the other way when a poor man killed a deer. In fact, I used to hunt the Chickahominie Wildlife Reserve in Virginia, and once had a conversation with the Game Warden there, and he told me the names of several poor Black families who would take deer out of season, and he commented, "I sure as hell ain't gonna arrest 'em for feeding their families.
Really?
In my world, Fish and Game violations are punished to the full extent of the law.
A couple of friends were hunting. Hadn't bagged anything. Game warden walks up, asks what they're hunting. They said "quail". One of them didn't have a $7 upland stamp, because he didn't know there was such a thing. Got a $300 fine.
Did the warden say, "Well, it's a good thing you haven't bagged anything. You need a stamp. Go get one before I see you here again." Nope. $300 fine.
I'm sure that somewhere there are wardens who look the other way in dire circumstances, but I sure as hell wouldn't bank on it.
BADUNAME37
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Yes, the meat would be all shiny from all the copper bullet casing exploded throughout the meat.
It would look like glittered meat in the frypan, with fur stuck in it.
I think I'll leave the 'chucks for the coyotes to take care of, then I can shoot them too!
It's a TWO-FER!
LOL, you guys are too much!
This site is fun~!
Trespassing laws, PA hunters, fisherman.
§ 2314. Trespass on private property while hunting.
(a) General rule.--Any person who while violating any
provision of this title or any regulations promulgated under
this title and who in addition is found to be trespassing as
defined in 18 Pa.C.S. § 3503 (relating to criminal trespass)
shall be in violation of this section.
(b) Penalty.--A violation of this section:
(1) For a first offense is a summary offense.
(2) For a second or subsequent offense within one year
of the prior offense is a summary offense and upon conviction
will result in an immediate revocation of the person's
hunting and furtaking license and disqualification of the
person from issuance of a future license for a period of one
year from the date of revocation.
This act shall take effect in 60 days.
(March 2005)
An entire section of the old law was removed to allow for punishment of hunters who are trespassing.
Senate Bill 539, sponsored by Sen. John R. Pippy (R-Allegheny/Washington), amends Title 34 (Game) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes and provides that a person who commits a violation of the Game Code – or any regulations of the Pennsylvania Game Commission – while committing criminal trespass will be guilty of a summary offense.
A second or subsequent offense within one year of the prior offense will constitute a summary offense, but will also result in the immediate revocation of the person’s hunting license and disqualification from receiving another license for one year.
The bill passed the Senate 50-0 and the House 193-0. The bill becomes effective in 60 days.
(i) actual communication to the actor;
(ii) posting in a manner prescribed by law or
reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders;
(iii) fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed
to exclude intruders;
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (1)(v), an offense
under this subsection constitutes a misdemeanor of the third
degree if the offender defies an order to leave personally
communicated to him by the owner of the premises or other
authorized person. An offense under paragraph (1)(v)
constitutes a misdemeanor of the first degree. Otherwise it
is a summary offense.
(b.2) Agricultural trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if knowing that he is
not licensed or privileged to do so he:
(i) enters or remains on any agricultural or other
open lands when such lands are posted in a manner
prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the
person's attention or are fenced or enclosed in a manner
manifestly designed to exclude trespassers or to confine
domestic animals; or
(ii) enters or remains on any agricultural or other
open lands and defies an order not to enter or to leave
that has been personally communicated to him by the owner
of the lands or other authorized person.
(2) An offense under this subsection shall be graded as
follows:
(i) An offense under paragraph (1)(i) constitutes a
misdemeanor of the third degree and is punishable by
imprisonment for a term of not more than one year and a
fine of not less than $250.
(ii) An offense under paragraph (1)(ii) constitutes
a misdemeanor of the second degree and is punishable by
imprisonment for a term of not more than two years and a
fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000.
(3) For the purposes of this subsection, the phrase
"agricultural or other open lands" shall mean any land on
which agricultural activity or farming as defined in section
3309 (relating to agricultural vandalism) is conducted or any
land populated by forest trees of any size and capable of
producing timber or other wood products or any other land in
an agricultural security area as defined in the act of June
30, 1981 (P.L.128, No.43), known as the Agricultural Area
Security Law, or any area zoned for agricultural use.
Defense
the premises were at the time open to members of the
public and the actor complied with all lawful conditions
imposed on access to or remaining in the premises; or
the actor reasonably believed that the owner of the
premises, or other person empowered to license access
thereto, would have licensed him to enter or remain.
of the lands or other authorized person.
Other states...
TRESPASSING AND POSTING: THE LAWS
In 22 states posting is not required; that is, it is against
the law for hunters to trespass on private property without the
landowner's permission even if the land is not posted. Where posting
is required some states have laws specifying how to post land. But
trespassing and posting laws can be somewhat confusing, so we recommend
that you post your land even if you are not legally required to do so
at a minimum, posting strengthens your case when trying to combat
trespassing by hunters. Posting also identifies your property
boundaries so that hunters and law enforcement officers know where your
private property begins. We also recommend that you get to know the law
enforcement and wildlife officers who would enforce the trespassing
laws in your area so that they might better respond when you have a
problem.
The breakdown of states that do require posting of private property to
exclude hunters/fishermen/trespassers, is as follows-Property Owner
Must Post Land in the following states:
Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Idaho, Louisiana,
Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nevada, New
Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North
Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Texas, Utah, Vermont,
Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin
§ 2314. Trespass on private property while hunting.
(a) General rule.--Any person who while violating any
provision of this title or any regulations promulgated under
this title and who in addition is found to be trespassing as
defined in 18 Pa.C.S. § 3503 (relating to criminal trespass)
shall be in violation of this section.
(b) Penalty.--A violation of this section:
(1) For a first offense is a summary offense.
(2) For a second or subsequent offense within one year
of the prior offense is a summary offense and upon conviction
will result in an immediate revocation of the person's
hunting and furtaking license and disqualification of the
person from issuance of a future license for a period of one
year from the date of revocation.
This act shall take effect in 60 days.
(March 2005)
An entire section of the old law was removed to allow for punishment of hunters who are trespassing.
Senate Bill 539, sponsored by Sen. John R. Pippy (R-Allegheny/Washington), amends Title 34 (Game) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes and provides that a person who commits a violation of the Game Code – or any regulations of the Pennsylvania Game Commission – while committing criminal trespass will be guilty of a summary offense.
A second or subsequent offense within one year of the prior offense will constitute a summary offense, but will also result in the immediate revocation of the person’s hunting license and disqualification from receiving another license for one year.
The bill passed the Senate 50-0 and the House 193-0. The bill becomes effective in 60 days.
(i) actual communication to the actor;
(ii) posting in a manner prescribed by law or
reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders;
(iii) fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed
to exclude intruders;
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (1)(v), an offense
under this subsection constitutes a misdemeanor of the third
degree if the offender defies an order to leave personally
communicated to him by the owner of the premises or other
authorized person. An offense under paragraph (1)(v)
constitutes a misdemeanor of the first degree. Otherwise it
is a summary offense.
(b.2) Agricultural trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if knowing that he is
not licensed or privileged to do so he:
(i) enters or remains on any agricultural or other
open lands when such lands are posted in a manner
prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the
person's attention or are fenced or enclosed in a manner
manifestly designed to exclude trespassers or to confine
domestic animals; or
(ii) enters or remains on any agricultural or other
open lands and defies an order not to enter or to leave
that has been personally communicated to him by the owner
of the lands or other authorized person.
(2) An offense under this subsection shall be graded as
follows:
(i) An offense under paragraph (1)(i) constitutes a
misdemeanor of the third degree and is punishable by
imprisonment for a term of not more than one year and a
fine of not less than $250.
(ii) An offense under paragraph (1)(ii) constitutes
a misdemeanor of the second degree and is punishable by
imprisonment for a term of not more than two years and a
fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000.
(3) For the purposes of this subsection, the phrase
"agricultural or other open lands" shall mean any land on
which agricultural activity or farming as defined in section
3309 (relating to agricultural vandalism) is conducted or any
land populated by forest trees of any size and capable of
producing timber or other wood products or any other land in
an agricultural security area as defined in the act of June
30, 1981 (P.L.128, No.43), known as the Agricultural Area
Security Law, or any area zoned for agricultural use.
Defense
the premises were at the time open to members of the
public and the actor complied with all lawful conditions
imposed on access to or remaining in the premises; or
the actor reasonably believed that the owner of the
premises, or other person empowered to license access
thereto, would have licensed him to enter or remain.
of the lands or other authorized person.
Other states...
TRESPASSING AND POSTING: THE LAWS
In 22 states posting is not required; that is, it is against
the law for hunters to trespass on private property without the
landowner's permission even if the land is not posted. Where posting
is required some states have laws specifying how to post land. But
trespassing and posting laws can be somewhat confusing, so we recommend
that you post your land even if you are not legally required to do so
at a minimum, posting strengthens your case when trying to combat
trespassing by hunters. Posting also identifies your property
boundaries so that hunters and law enforcement officers know where your
private property begins. We also recommend that you get to know the law
enforcement and wildlife officers who would enforce the trespassing
laws in your area so that they might better respond when you have a
problem.
The breakdown of states that do require posting of private property to
exclude hunters/fishermen/trespassers, is as follows-Property Owner
Must Post Land in the following states:
Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Idaho, Louisiana,
Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nevada, New
Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North
Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Texas, Utah, Vermont,
Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin
jimmyraythomason
Member
Anbody remember this?
<http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2004/11/22_kelleherb_huntershooting/> or even this <http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/hunting/news/story?id=2733455>?
<http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2004/11/22_kelleherb_huntershooting/> or even this <http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/hunting/news/story?id=2733455>?
Tim the student
Member
I wouldn't hunt on land I don't have permission to hunt on any more than I would sleep in a bed I don't have permission to be in. If it's not mine, then I shouldn't be on it.
Do you guys drive cars that have the keys in them if they aren't posted as "don't drive this if you don't have permission to" or grab a shotgun out of a rack at the range that isn't yours?
No reason morally or legally to use other peoples property if you do not have permission to do so as far as i'm concerned. I wouldn't want other people to do I to me so why would I do it to them?
Do you guys drive cars that have the keys in them if they aren't posted as "don't drive this if you don't have permission to" or grab a shotgun out of a rack at the range that isn't yours?
No reason morally or legally to use other peoples property if you do not have permission to do so as far as i'm concerned. I wouldn't want other people to do I to me so why would I do it to them?
Vern Humphrey
Member
And a friend of mine who is a retired Saint Louis cop points out, "If I get called out on you, and you're half-way reasonable, I'll give you a warning and go to the next call. I do not want to arrest you -- too much time, too much paperwork, and I'll have to spend at least a day in court. But Game Wardens hardly ever get a chance to arrest anyone. So when they do get a chance -- look out!"
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Tim, you just fell into a logic trap. The use of someone's car is not the same--not even similar--to the use of someone's land.
Further, some state laws, and some customs, have it that if lands are not posted against trespass, you can legally hunt across them.
Again: The way laws and custom are in your area are not necessarily the way they are in other areas. Your ways are right for you; other's ways are right for them.
And what a judge does or doesn't decide isn't germane to the thread. Knock it off.
Further, some state laws, and some customs, have it that if lands are not posted against trespass, you can legally hunt across them.
Again: The way laws and custom are in your area are not necessarily the way they are in other areas. Your ways are right for you; other's ways are right for them.
And what a judge does or doesn't decide isn't germane to the thread. Knock it off.
Tim the student
Member
Nope, no logic trap. What isn't mine or I don't have permission to use, isn't mine to use. What else is there to discuss?
jimmyraythomason
Member
From the OP "What do you say? Please remember, this question is NOT asking about legality. ............... This is a MORAL question only!"
slabuda
Member
You aint kidding!!! Dont get caught with lead shells in your pocket for pheasant with ducks in your car at CJ Strike WMA (this is after a morning on the snake river), they threaten you with large federal fines for hunting ducks with lead. Or not turning down all your barbs on fish hooks in your fly box where required. Or having a spike buck with antlers 1/8" too small etc. They are rough here in Idaho!!
Years ago when I was young we had to get written permission from a landowner, and keep that written permission with us to operate a motorized vehicle (gokarts, motorcycle, ATV, etc) on property aside from our own, unless the owner was present to verify you belonged there. Without this written permission the police can remove and fine you for trespassing.
Imagine the stupidity it takes for deer hunters to take a boat and sneek onto a nuclear powerplants property on an island, and risk being shot (DOE authorizes to shoot for those tresapassing with a weapon), not including the various state, federal, and local laws you would be breaking by doing this, but every years some try it.
Imagine the stupidity it takes for deer hunters to take a boat and sneek onto a nuclear powerplants property on an island, and risk being shot (DOE authorizes to shoot for those tresapassing with a weapon), not including the various state, federal, and local laws you would be breaking by doing this, but every years some try it.
Gunfighter123
Member
And what about the legal hunter ,perhaps with their son or daugther who gets lost/turned around in the woods or field ??? Gonna shoot them all !!!!
My brother in law's family has a farm in NW Pa Near Waverly. The property is plastered with NO HUNTING signs and is fenced. The signs and fences do nothing to stop people from mostly Philly from trespassing on their land and taking shots at whatever moves. It got so bad that they had to paint their livestock with blaze orange "COW" signs on both flanks. Would you believe they still lose at least one dairy cow a year to hunters? Usually they catch the guy on their land and hold him until the sheriff arrives to take them away. Then they make the hunter pay for the cow...
Vern Humphrey
Member
And they bloody well ought to shoot armed trespassers. One day it will be terrorists, and they'll treat them like deer hunters -- at great cost to the nation.
Besides, if you shoot people dumb enough to sneak into a nuclear secure area, you raise the national IQ by just that much.
Bud Tugly
Member
I haven't read all this thread so maybe this has already been addressed. Here in Michigan there are 3 categories for rural property: public land, CFR land, and private property. CFR is private land that the landowner has agreed to keep open for hunting and fishing and you get a huge property tax break for doing so. The Michigan DNR publishes maps showing all the public and CFR land in the state, and those are the places you can hunt without asking permission.
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10371_14793_51784-200319--,00.html
I own 80 acres of excellent deer hunting land that I have chosen to keep private. I pay extra in taxes to do so, and am not about to put up 1 1/2 miles of fence or a hundred or so signs around the perimeter just to keep others out. If I see someone hunting or just walking on my land I will definitely ask them to leave.
I no longer hunt deer and I have a few friends who have my permission to hunt there, but there is no excuse for others to ever be on my land for any reason other than ignorance or pure and simple trespassing..
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10371_14793_51784-200319--,00.html
I own 80 acres of excellent deer hunting land that I have chosen to keep private. I pay extra in taxes to do so, and am not about to put up 1 1/2 miles of fence or a hundred or so signs around the perimeter just to keep others out. If I see someone hunting or just walking on my land I will definitely ask them to leave.
I no longer hunt deer and I have a few friends who have my permission to hunt there, but there is no excuse for others to ever be on my land for any reason other than ignorance or pure and simple trespassing..
Last edited:
Vern Humphrey
Member
Amen.
Trespassing on your land is like breaking into your house.
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