Why are Mini 14's so inaccurate?

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"...knowing what happened in 'Nam..." T'ain't the same rifle or ammo. Forty years of developement has made a difference. Current versions have battle proven reliablity and accuracy.

Does that mean a current production AR will function with a powder who's burn rate is too fast? As I recall, that was part of the problem back then. But I did couple my historical knowledge with just plain old personal preference as I mentioned both in the same sentance.

However, a Mini-14 isn't a battle rifle.

Nope. It's not a "assault rifle" either. Neither is the AC556; those are select fire automatic rifles. "Assault Rifle" was coined by Adolf Hitler and used by commie gun grabbers.

Nor is it a 'Garand-type system'. It just looks like one.
The bottom line is that they're fun to shoot and don't cost a bunch to do so.

I've had my Mini-14 apart. The gas system's inverted to an M-14 or Garand.

They are, however, far more expensive than the accuracy warrants.

As I said, I got mine before they topped $425... actually, IIRC, I paid $380 and tax for mine and picked up some extra mags later. But that was back in Y2K. Prices have skyrocketed on some rifles since then.
 
Accuracy...c'mon!?

Hey guys...really..what is the complaint with the Mini accuracy?

Are you going deer hunting with it? At 300 yards or more? Probably not (although you probably could if you had to); I think that would be idiotic. You would probably use a tool better suited for the job, like a bolt gun, etc. I know I would.

The Mini is designed to put down people comfortably at 100 yards or less. At that, I think it is a pretty good choice, especially the Mini-30, of which I have one. Read between the advertising and marketing bull-crapola...the Mini is a close and nasty weapon. Google the FBI-Miami shootout.

I think a lot of the complaints are coming from people that are...

1. Using the gun in the wrong application (this is a defensive weapon, not a hunting rifle or target arm)

2. Don't know how to shoot the gun

3. Are never satisfied with any product, or have unreasonable expectations of the product (see #1 again).

YMMV
 
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How 'bout a new barrel then

So the common complaint is a thin barrel. The simple solution sounds like it would be to replace the barrel. Are there aftermarket replacement barrels for this gun? Will a new barrel fit an old gun?

Thanks for all the responses and shoot safe. I do.

Lovesbeer99
 
yes it is not a target rifle. I keep hearing that. In comparison to 14 other rifles that I had for comparison it was by far the least accurate.

I will eventually send it off the get a grands worth of work done to it.

Many of the people that complain do not hate the gun, we just wish it was 2 moa.

Now the truth is they are not all equal. The good ones are ok, the bad ones though are horrific. I honestly can outshoot my mini at 25 yards with a handgun. I stuck a leupold 4.5x14 on it and turned the scopes paralex adjustment down to 30 yards and my groups were larger than 4 inches at 25 yards. Mine is an exceptionally bad one.

Also, when did guns become toys?
 
I recall hearing or reading something about 5.56 being unsafe to shoot in a Mini 14. Can anyone confirm this?

Biker
 
The Mini-14 has been made since 1974, not 1976 as was previously stated. I bought one right after HS graduation in '74, and used it, coupled with a Weaver V9, to kill enough coyotes to pay for two semesters of college. It was accurate enough, but I never considered it to be a target rifle.
 
I asked a simple question, stoky. I didn't ask for $20 worth of BS. Don't want to answer, fine but you should really bag the 'tude.

Biker
 
Asknight wrote:

You say, the fact that the Mini uses a cast barrel? Oh my! HAHAHAH


I did a search on the web, and I did not see anything that substantiates what I say that I HEARD. In that matter, it seems I heard something inaccurate.

I stand corrected in using one word--often a "figure of speech" word-- inaccurately. My humble appologies, though I did qualify my statements that I am by far no expert on Mini's.


John
 
I had a Mini-30 for a short period of time. Fun rifle, cruddy mags and I would have been more accurate with a bull whip. Really though, I loved the way the rifle fit me with the addition of an Hogue overmolded stock. It would of made a great truck gun if I would have had a truck at the time. Eventually, I traded it towards a brand new Arsenal AK and I then I bought a Toyota Tacoma. I am much happier now. If you want accuracy, buy an AR. If you want fun, buy what you WANT!
 
Folks, I sat back and watched him get dialed in on that 20" gong, and then proceed to ring it with his remaining rounds, 8 fairly hasty times in a row.

Gotta say it was a bit of an eye opener. Highly doubt I could replicate that feat with my AK, though it doesn't sport a scope.

Also gotta say that after seeing such a display, those badmouthing the Mini's just lost a little ground in my book.
As others have pointed out, that's excellent shooting, but it doesn't take an accurate rifle to do that (the target is between 6 and 7 MOA wide). Rock River Arms guarantees 1 MOA from their ordinary AR's and 1/2 MOA from their varmint models, for example, meaning that from sandbags, a 16" RRA AR should be able to easily stay on a 4" plate at 300 yards, and the varmint model should be able to hit a baseball every time at that distance.

An AK is easily capable of the same feat, with an optic and halfway decent ammunition.

The best group my mini-14 Ranch Rifle has ever produced is 5.5" at 100 yards, or just under 6 MOA. That's good enough to hit a 20" target at 300 every time, but immensely frustrating if you're trying to sight in even a shotgun scope.

Here is a 100-yard target from a 5.5-MOA mini, from rest and bags, slowfire. I shot this group with iron sights and 55-gr ammunition, but I've tried scopes (2.5x and a 3-9x) and high-end ammunition (Winchester Premium 69-gr Match, Winchester 55-gr SP hunting loads, etc.) and done no better.

attachment.php


As far as why the inaccuracy? Personally, I think it has a lot to do with cantilevering a gas block driving a reverse-design, ultra-heavy gas piston off of a thin, unreinforced barrel, and then overpowering the crap out of the gas system. The barrel bending torque produced by that setup has to be astronomical, and given the whippy barrel, the resulting barrel harmonics are probably a big part of the accuracy bugaboo. The other part might be the action shifting in the stock, since it's not exactly a secure action-to-wood fit.
 
My Ranch Rifle was not very accurate with the stock barrel. It is a dependable 1.2 MOA rifle with the ARS heavy barrel and trigger job. I bet if I had gotten it glass bedded that it would be sub MOA.

The ARS stance was that the factory barrels are unpredictable because they are turned to small diameter and taper in a hurry on mass production equipment. You can have an accurate skinny barrel, but it takes careful work.
 
An the casting. The reciever is cast but not the barrel.

What I have heard is the barrels are turned too fast and doing this causese internal stress. After a barrel is turned it is supposed to be stress releaved by heating it very hot and letting it cool very slowly.

One of the problems is as the barrel gets hot from shooting the expansion is not even so the barrel warps a little bit so the muzzle is slightly pointing in a differnt direction each shot.

I want a caliber change anyway. I really don't like the 5.56 cartridge anyway as there are not very many hi BC bullets in .224. I think when I get mine rebarreled I will go with one of the 6mm or a remote possiblity to one of the 6.5mm wildcats.
 
Not worth it. And I say this as a Ruger fan. My first handgun was a Ruger 9mm, and my dad's first was a Ruger GP100 4". I will soon be buying a GP100 of my own, in 6"... so I should have every reason to like Rugers.

However, I considered a Mini-14. I just couldnt bring myself to spending $550 on something that I didnt really want. What I REALLY wanted was an AR-15, so I went ahead and spent the difference for a Bushmaster.

And anybody that buys a Mini-30 is just plain crazy... A new/unissued SKS is 1/4 the price of a new Mini-30.

Just my opinions, of course. :)
 
I'll chime in.

Ruger Mini-14s are very good at a couple of things. They aren't tack drivers, they aren't perfect combat guns. Try this: Buy an AK in .223. Make it a Saiga, because they are similar in overall configuration.
Now, buy a really good Krebs rear sight for it, and install is on the dustcover. (for similar sighting)
Now get handsome wood furniture for it.
Spend more than $550?
You sure did. Closer to $800. Does it shoot better? Maybe.
Does it feel like a better gun? Maybe.
Is it made in the US? Nope.
Can you get reliable 20 round mags for it for less than $30 each? Nope.
So, it ain't perfect, but it ain't all that bad either.
Steve
 
mini-14 designed with lose tolerances

I've read "somewhere"(some magazine, so take it with a grain of salt) The mini-14 was designed as a battle rifle for the army. The army wanted a light rifle so Ruger built a lighter version of the M14 (hence mini-14) in a lighter cartridge. The army opted for the M16 instead, so Ruger left with the whole design marketed it as "ranch rifle" to the public. Ruger intentionally designed the mini-14 with lose tolerances for rough field use (much like the ak), but now there are some places that will rebuild factory mini-14 with tighter tolerances. The author of the article said he had a mini-14 he sent out and now shoots sub moa.
 
One of the guys I hunt with has one that'll do dime sized groups at 100 yards. Of course it's got a free floated varmint barrel, a custom trigger with about a pound and a half worth of pull, and many other goodies. Lots of $ invested, but it is very accurate. We use it for nighttime varmint hunting.
 
5.56

Biker,

The manual says to use 5.56/.223 and I have used both in mine with no problems - probably 1,000 rounds combined (maybe 1/3 of them 5.56). I have also seen discussion on this subject on Perfectunion and most folks agree that there is no problem using 5.56 in a mini.

Joe
 
Thanks Joe. I owned a 14 for awhile and ran some 5.56s through it with no problems. However, I recall reading (on THR?) that the chamber tolerances were a bit too tight to safely take 5.56. Never know till you ask.
Biker:)
 
Biker - no problem, I was concerned about this as well when I first got mine.


I like my mini. It's easy to use, fun to shoot, easy to clean, cheap to feed (it chews up steel cased Russian ammo) With the factory 20's being about $30 I picked up a bunch so the mag issue is moot.

I had a .30 carbine and liked it too but the ammo is just too expensive and my carbine was picky.

Anyway, some hate the mini - but many love it. For as many as have been made, I rarely see used ones being sold so somebody has to like them.

A tougher barrel would be nice, but I think I will try the bedding and shorten the barrel/add the muzzle break first.

Joe
 
The Mini had/has a lot of problems. Ruger bought barrels from the lowest bidder, meaning they bought crappy ones. They heat up, accuracy suffers, and the groups generally string vertically too. The gas system is heavy and essentially wide open. That means it is reliable but beats the crap out of the gun with every shot. And aftermarket hicaps suck.

These problems can be fixed. Ruger is making their own barrels now, so supposedly the worst of the barrel problems are mostly gone. The aftermarket can also fix the rest if you put enough money into it. But for that price you could have bought an AR and saved yourself some money.

If you don't mine the accuracy problems, the mini isn't a bad gun. It's handy like an M-1 carbine, but more powerful. It makes for a good short range brush gun or truck gun. And it is shaped like a traditional rifle, which a lot of people like. It just isn't a good target gun.
 
I have always liked the mini 14, not a tack driver, but with a 30rd mag plenty fun to make a milk jug dance in midair at 25yds, or taking woodchucks at up to about 100, when they call it a ranch rifle it basically serves that purpose, shooting small stuff and plinking. another favorite is the marlin camp 9 a 9mm or 45acp carbine, less accurate than even a mini, but takes 30rd s&w mags and less kick, they make a bullpup stock for the camp and several folding stocks for the mini, makes them both more accurate than a pistol (at least a good mini 14) and more compact and easy to carry than a full size hunting or varmint rifle. this is similar to their original intended use as a smaller version of the m-14 for paratrooper forces, as a bonus if you are firing and someone tries to flank you from the right the shell cases have decent stopping power:) if I want accuracy I bring my savage 10, or garand, but if i have to CARRY it for too long i prefer the mini over even my AR (looks less evil to the uninformed)
 
this weekend I took mine out for the first time in a long time,it had been so long I forgot what it was capable of .Done at 100yds prone I'd say this is not too bad considering.The flyer was my fault,I jerked the trigger.Not as accurate as AR-15 true,but decent in my mind.I have not seen what other people can do with a Mini so Im judging only on myself.I used USA brand 5.56mm

th_100_1168.jpg
 
as a bonus if you are firing and someone tries to flank you from the right the shell cases have decent stopping power

LOL:D

I've dented my truck more than once with empties from my Stainless ranch rifle. (dunno what series it is... bought it mid-90's). No probs running LOTS of 5.56 through it, although it does make a BIG boom and muzzle flash/concussion. The barrel does get HOT in a hurry, but I've not grabbed the hot barrel of my AR for comparison. :D Not particularly accurate, but if I wanted a target/benchrest rifle I would have bought one.

As for the SKS/Mini-30? I'd much rather have a mini-30, personally. SKSs are very homely rifles to my eye.:scrutiny:


Someone said stainless gets particularly hot... why?:confused:
 
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