Why was the HK P7 discontinued?

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The slimness and ergonomics are defeated by gun weight.
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That makes no sense.

Sure, if you want a lighter carry pistol, a polymer frame will typically weigh less. But there are plenty of folks for which this is clearly not an issue (think of how many 1911s and variants are carried). Likewise, a slimmer pistol (like the P7) is easier to carry and conceal for most folks. It's all about having the right carry setup. But of course, this is all purely subjective.

However, what isn't subjective are the definite benefits to heavier weight - namely reduction of felt recoil and muzzle flip.
 
That makes no sense.
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Let me explain it for you:

No one wanted a slim, ergonomic gun that pulled their pants down below their butt when they carried it, when they could have a different brand slim, ergonomic gun that DIDN'T pull their pants down below their butt when they carried it.
 
That may have been what you meant, but it isn't how what you posted would be read by most folks.

What it sounded like you were saying is that a fatter and less ergonomic gun which weighed less would be preferable to a slimmer and more ergonomic one which weighed more

I've carried a P7 PSP as both a duty gun and as an off-duty one. As with a gun like a steel framed 1911 Combat Commander, the weight of the P7 is almost unnoticed if you use a good belt (I like the Wilderness Outfitters nylon one) and a good holster (Allessi CQC/S) to support it
 
Beautiful gun any way you looked at it.
Worked perfectly, awesome design all around as well as the safest design too.
Compact, all steel construction, RELIABLE, ACCURATE.

And civilians just plain and simple didn't buy enough of them to warrant continuing to flood the marketplace with any more stock.

Crying shame, I loved mine. Gonna get another eventually.
 
The weight isn't really a problem once you get used to it. Years ago I carried an M8 in an ankle holster as backup. When someone offered me what I considered an insane amount of money for it I replaced it with the (then) new Glock 19. I still have a nice police trade-in to shoot when I feel the need.
 
My dad bought one in the 1980s, and when he got divorced, his (now ex)wife claimed it was stolen. There were no signs of a break in, and he's convinced she's still got it. Maybe she does, but it's reported as stolen if she ever gets caught with it...

But as for the gun itself, I was always very impressed with the accuracy, and from an engineering standpoint, I like how it has a relatively long barrel for such a short pistol (look how far back on the slide the ejection port is). But I never thought the grip was all that ergonomic; it's too blocky in profile. And it was a difficult gun to train with because it got so hot during firing. The only way to have a long, all day range session was to have more than one (not easy with such an expensive gun). An inevitable consequence of the gas retarded blow back system was the heat it transferred to the frame during shooting. H&K eventually added a plastic heat shield to the upper inside of the trigger guard, but it only did so much. So while I give it high marks for accuracy, reliability, and low felt recoil (thanks both to the gas retarded blow back and the low bore axis), it was doomed by its cost, its tendency to get uncomfortably hot, and the fact it was heavy for its size, especially compared to the polymer pistols that were the coming thing.
 
Let me explain it for you:

No one wanted a slim, ergonomic gun that pulled their pants down below their butt when they carried it, when they could have a different brand slim, ergonomic gun that DIDN'T pull their pants down below their butt when they carried it.
Click to expand...

...and yet thousands of people carry a 1911 every day. :rolleyes:

Anyway, if you are wearing a proper gun belt and holster, your pants won't be going anywhere.



.
 
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HOOfan_1 said:
USP and P30 still cost 60% more than a Glock.
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After owning two expensive H&K pistols I finally realized the faux myth of Heckler & Koch greatness. Just couple of Mauser Werke employees that started making guns like G3 rifle in the 50s when West Germany was finally allowed to manufacture them. I no longer see reason to pay extra cash for their overpriced stuff. I don't give a .... if their handguns and submachine guns are carried by many (actually most if one takes project 69 weapon into consideration) elite military forces of the world.
 
Weight capacity, maintenance and timing. The rage was hi capacity $450,00 Glocks at the time they discontinued it. Most folks were not into spending a thousand dollars on a heavy gun that didn't carry 15 rounds, and was difficult to field strip for cleaning. Only us gun folk are into putting in the effort and time into these things, not the masses.
 
The Glock's marketing introduced two ideas to consumers that have been impossible to compete with:

1. Polymer is a more modern and stronger material than any other (it isn't).
2. Pistols do not need a trigger system that helps prevent accidentally pulling the trigger.

The P7 introduced the safest and fastest method from going from an almost completely inert pistol to a light single action trigger, and used extremely accurate and modern stamping techniques to produce an incredibly accurate and reliable gun that was slim and easy to use despite the mechanical complexity. HK basically solved the DA vs. cocked and locked problem - even Jeff Cooper approved.

And most contemporary shooters believe they don't need any sort of mechanical safety between them and a single action trigger pull. So why pay HK for a brilliant mechanism Glock has convinced everyone they no longer require?

On top of that, many P7 owners didn't know how to best use the pistol, and would constantly cock and decock it, never understanding that they had a functional DA/SA gun. Additionally, most people can't shoot well enough to net the accuracy and followup shots the gun is capable of and other guns are not.


And just to clarify, there is no hand fitting or difficult to machine parts on a P7. Like all HKs and Sigs, everything is mass produced with precision techniques than assembled. No parts require any hand fitting.

HK continues to produce the best engineered products, but they aren't so stupid that they're going to destroy their business by offering excellence when the public wants injection molded nylon and no safety systems.
 
I love the P7M8 and I think it's the best gun ever made, but obviously people will disagree.

Here is my P7M8:

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For a couple of years in the 1980's my employer provided these.

I liked the lack of a thumb safety and the thinness.

They do get very hot after a few magazines.

They are too heavy for their bulk.

I wish someone would make a thin, under 20 ounce, single stack, full size 9 or 40.
 
Not enough folks were willing to pay a premium for a high quality heavy low capacity 9mm uber-reliable auto pistol.

The fools!

The rest of us hoarded them up and still routinely carry them. I just put mine away after going for a walk. I still like the safety and reliability of a very accurate easy to shoot 9mm. Besides if I run out of ammo due to low capacity, it would make a heck of a club as it is solid steel.
 
I wish I had bought 5 of them in the 80s instead of 1

I remember standing at the gun counter at Walmart in Leesville, LA and the clerk advised me to get the Beretta 92 instead. He said "It feels better in the hand, it's gonna be the new service pistol of the military and it's $50 cheaper

I should have said "I'll take 5 of the M8s"
 
I have a couple of Glocks, a model 34 and a 17L. I think stock Glock triggers are terrible and I've heard the line "you have to get used to them, practice practice practice"

I did practice practice practice but I couldn't get good follow-through with the stock Glock. The front sight twitched to the right almost every time no matter how slowly I pulled the trigger. It didn't happen with my P7M8, I just got tired of dealing with it, put a trigger kit in the Glock and the problem went away.

Whenever I hear these conversations concerning the DA/SA versus SA trigger / cocked & locked and all that I just think "the P7 solved those problems"
 
For a while I was facinated by the innovation of the P7. But sticker shock and the odd grip feel turned me away. A couple years later and the prices have gone stupid high. I now have a collection of P6's with IMO a better grip and affordability. Still wouldn't mind a P7 just for the unique design though.
 
Guns such as the Glock pretty well killed the demand for the P7 type pistol.
Simpler design, fewer parts, larger capacity and half the price.
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Not to mention for all practical purposes the G19 is the same size and lighter weight when fully loaded than the P7
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Yes, that is the same G19 underneath the P7,,,
 
I'd like to see them bring it back, though without the gas system. P30 with that cocking system would be pretty cool.
 
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