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WI: interesting press release from anti-CCW Dem

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Monkeyleg

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Democrat Assembly Minority Leader Jim Kreuser issued the press release below, calling on Republican Representative John Townsend to stick to his original opposition to the CCW bill.

I find it really interesting that Kreuser would go after a Republican this close to the override vote. It makes me wonder if the two Democrats we're worried about--Van Akkeren and Steinbrink--are either not talking to the Democrat leadership either, or if they've told Kreuser they're going to vote for the bill.

Anybody with a clean crystal ball, please chime in.

******

MADISON – With the final vote of the legislative session on the concealed carry bill approaching, Assembly Democratic Leader Jim Kreuser (D-Kenosha) called on Fond du Lac Republican Rep. John Townsend to renew his original position and vote against allowing concealed weapons to be carried in Wisconsin.

“Last session John Townsend made his true feelings about concealed weapons known, but this session he seems to have lost his convictions. Everyone who knows John Townsend knows that he does not support putting more guns on the streets. Unfortunately, once again he may be forced to vote according to his leader’s orders, instead of his own conscience,” said Kreuser.

During the 2003 – 2005 legislative session the concealed carry bill, SB 214, was approved by both houses, vetoed and that veto was upheld by the State Assembly. When the Assembly first considered SB 214, Rep. Townsend joined 32 Democrats and 1 other Republican in voting “no.” However, when the veto override occurred, Townsend and the other Republican, then Rep. Luther Olsen (R-Ripon), both caved to their party and the National Rifle Association and voted against their districts and in favor of concealed carry.

This session, a much publicized package of compromises introduced at the last minute garnered enough Assembly support to potentially override Governor Doyle’s veto. However, hours after that package was adopted one of the bills sponsors, Sen. Dave Zien (R-Eau Claire), announced that he would work in future legislative sessions to “roll back” that very same agreement. In fact, Zien told the Associated Press that once the bill becomes law, “we’ll tinker with it.” [Milwaukee Journal Sentinel 12/14/05, Appleton Post Crescent 12/2/05]

“John Townsend needs to have the intestinal fortitude to vote his conscience and his district, which is two to one against concealed carry, and not be a puppet of the Assembly Speaker. Fond du Lac should want an independent thinking legislator from their district and Tuesday they will know if it is time for a change,” said Rep. Kreuser. “If concealed carry becomes law it may be because John Townsend wouldn’t stand up for his convictions.”
 
Remind all your pols what happend in Texas with CHL. If Ann Richards hadn't vetoed it, everyone whould be asking George W Who??

--wally.
 
There were other reasons Ann Richards lost. :)
But I guess you can roll that one in with acting generally like a typical liberal Democrat.
 
>“Last session John Townsend made his true feelings about concealed weapons known, but this session he seems to have lost his convictions. Everyone who knows John Townsend knows that he does not support putting more guns on the streets. Unfortunately, once again he may be forced to vote according to his leader’s orders, instead of his own conscience,” said Kreuser.<

Hmmm... anyone remember that Sherman guy? I think I'll have to call this assemblycritter and ask him about that...
 
Huh. I actually used to know John Townsend when I was in high school. The guy wrote me a couple letters of recommendation when I was applying to colleges. Heckuva nice guy; I hope he comes out on the right side of this.
 
This press release means two posiblities to me:

1. The Democrats are worried that Doyle hasn't found his "flipper" yet, and they're reaching out to put pressure on others than VanAkkeren and Steinbrink.

If they're truly cluthing at straws like that, it would be VERY good news for our side.

2. It's just general bluster from the Dem minority leader, and possibly a smoke-screen to re-direct attention away from the real "flippers".

That's value-neutral in my playbook.

So I think that the release is either good news, or just "business as usual" over this. I don't see a downside. Either way, the anti-CCW Democrat minority is just calling attention to their own weakness on this issue.
 
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so when do they vote?

I've been watching the soap opera and hoping/praying for a happy ending...and, as a recent Illinois escapee, I'm hoping WI is the next domino.

Good luck--we are with you!
 
orionengnr, the vote is Tuesday.

If the Dem's do a repeat of the senate vote of 2003 and go into caucus forever, I'm going to read that as a good sign, meaning that they don't know how Van Akkeren or Steinbrink will go.
 
I'm become a bit more optimistic in the last day or two with all of the ethical and potential legal problems that Doyle has suddenly found himself in. He has a top aide that was just indicted in a bid-rigging scheme and new 'pay-to-play' schemes are being uncovered every day. Many, many Democrats are very nervous not only about Doyle's weak responses to the charges but his ability to survive a re-election campaign for governor - to the point that a primary challenge by a fellow Democrat is not out of the question.

Doyle is very, very weak right now and I just don't see where he has the pull within his own party to bully Assembly dems into voting the way he wants. Anyone who overturns their own vote to side with Doyle now runs the risk of being painted as a Doyle loyalist - not something with which most dems are currently very comfortable. I may be changing from cautiously pessimistic to cautiously optimistic!!!
 
FireBreather01, that should be a consideration for both Steinbrink and Van Akkeren.

This investigation is still in the early phases. It's going to last for months, I'll bet.

Anything that Doyle can offer will only be good through the end of the year, because I don't think Doyle can survive this. Already, some of his supporters are talking about how badly he's handled the reaction.

Hunter Rose had suggested that we (WCCA) offer Van Akkeren campaign volunteers. It's a good idea, but nobody seems to be able to talk to Van Akkeren or Steinbrink.

In many respects, the WCCA volunteers are able to offer what neither Doyle nor the NRA can. Doyle can offer bribes, but for how long? The NRA can promise retribution at the polls, but that's a negative promise.

We can offer campaign volunteers, contributions from people all over the country (although that cannot be mentioned in conjunction with any conversation about the bill, at least not directly), and more.

If it were possible to talk with either of these two, maybe that would help. Don't know.
 
Anybody watch Belling and company this AM? Belling was of the opinion that the veto was not going to be over rode (ridden?) because there has been no vetos over ridden in the past 23 years. :uhoh:

I hope any Dems who voted for the PPA do not want to waste any political capital on supporting Doyle's veto. I plan to call my rep and the two Dems most likely to flip.
 
StopTheGrays said:
Anybody watch Belling and company this AM? Belling was of the opinion that the veto was not going to be over rode (ridden?) because there has been no vetos over ridden in the past 23 years. :uhoh:

That is what's such a PITA about getting the PPA passed these past two sessions.

The battle is as much, if not more, about the Democrats not letting the first veto override in over two decades be on thier watch, than it is about the merits of concealed carry. If we had veto overrides all the time, or even just one on some other issue this session, this would probably be a slam dunk.

We've got more than enough pro-gun Dems from northern and rural districts to make this a slam dunk. Instead, we've really got a double fight on our hands, breaking the "undefeated veto" record, and the anti gunners.

I think that VanAkkeren and Steinbrink are cynicaly hiding thier votes because they're wating untill the last minute to judge Gov. Doylet's weakness. I don't think it's a "Sherman" this time per-se, it's just that these two have thier fingher in the wind about the Govenor's prospects to avoid a striped jumpsuit.

Three things are at least in our favor.

- Doyle vetoes the PPA on a late Friday afternoon to minimize the news coverage.

- Federal investigations into bid fixing over the WI state govt. travel contract for campaign donations has been hitting the news hard.

- Doyle running away to Iraq to "support the troops" (*** does he have to do with it? WI NG units? Please...) It could be construed as an early re-election stunt, but I doubt it's fooling anybody.

That's what's got me encouraged.
 
First things first.

This wouldn't be the first veto override in the last two decades. Doyle had a veto overidden just last fall.

Historic precedent has been broken.

Secondly, these "talking heads" don't have the sort of inside information that some of us do. All they know about the odds of us winning are what they read in the Journal Sentinel.

Kreuser, Erpenbach and the other liberal Dem leaders are doing things they've never done before. In the decade or so that CCW has been in play, I've never seen the anti's resort to the sort of tactics they are now.

That's not to say that we can't lose on Tuesday. All I'm saying is that Kreuser, Erpenbach and others in the Dem leadership probably don't know if they can win, either.

Doyle isn't just wounded, he's hemorrhaging. And the bleeding is going to continue.

First-term freshman Democrat Representative Amy Sue Vruwink voted for the veto override in 2004. What punishment did she suffer? She got promoted to co-chair of the Democrat caucus.

Democrat Senator Russ Decker had a heated argument in caucus with Erpenbach back in 2003 about concealed carry, one that was so loud that people outside the caucus chamber could hear. What did it cost Decker? Nothing. Not only did he get "upped" in leadership, but he's on his way to running for Congress.

Dem's Barbara Gronemus, Wayne Wood, Roger Breske, Jeff Plale, Julie Lassa, Russ Decker, Bob Wirch, John Steinbrink, Terry Van Akkeren, Amy Sue Vruwink, Schneider and others have voted for CCW. And it hasn't hurt them a bit.

For Democrats from pro-gun districts, there is no downside to voting for concealed carry.

In a little over 36 hours, the battle will begin. Please remind Van Akkeren and Steinbrink that they have more friends on our side than they do in the Democrat leadership.
 
I forgot about that veto override. Awsome! Then the string has been broken! One less negative then!

What does everyone make of this Milwaukee Urinal-Sentinel Article?:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jan06/388528.asp

- Are they gearing up to concede defeat? Or is this "telling the truth" to be alarmist to the anti's and make one last stab at rallying the troops?

- If this is a semi-official throwing in the towel? Why do it through the Mayor of Milwaukee?

Gun bill likely to be law, lawmakers say

Barrett, others expect override of Doyle veto

By MEGAN TWOHEY
[email protected]

Posted: Jan. 29, 2006
West Allis - Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett and two Democratic state lawmakers came together Sunday to put up a last-minute fight against a bill that would legalize the carrying of concealed weapons in Wisconsin. But they acknowledged that even with their protests, the legislation would likely become law.
"The possibility is very, very strong that by the end of this week, people will be able to carry concealed guns in Wisconsin," said Barrett, who spoke outside State Fair Park with Reps. Jon Richards of Milwaukee and Tony Staskunas of West Allis.
On Thursday, the Republican-controlled state Senate voted to override a veto of the bill by Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle. On Tuesday, the Assembly will decide whether to do the same.
The Assembly passed the bill in December by a vote of 63-32 - short of the two-thirds majority needed for an override. But a Republican was missing, and a seat that was open at the time has since been filled by a GOP supporter of the bill.
While Democratic leaders have said they are confident that two of six Democrats who supported the legislation would change their votes, Barrett and Richards did not sound optimistic.
"We're here today to talk about a bill that is about to become law," said Richards. The mayor and lawmakers were joined by Don Smiley, president and CEO of Milwaukee World Festivals Inc., who said he opposed the bill.
Under the bill, people 21 and older would be allowed to carry concealed weapons after passing a course, provided they had not been convicted of felonies or certain misdemeanors, such as for domestic violence. Among the places people would be able to carry firearms are the grounds of State Fair Park and Summerfest.
Instead of opening up the way for people to carry concealed weapons, Barrett said, the Legislature should be working to rid Wisconsin of illegal guns.
"We do not need more guns in Milwaukee," he said. "This bill will likely increase the number of people getting killed."
State Sen. Dave Zien (R-Eau Claire), an author of the bill, dismissed Sunday's criticism of the bill, insisting that all Wisconsin residents would be safer if they were able to carry concealed weapons.
"There is an angelic factor," he said. "The criminals will be less likely to commit a crime because they will suspect that the person who they're targeting might have a weapon."
Zien said he expected the Assembly to override Doyle's veto this week.
"It will be great seeing them eat crow when this law is passed," he said of the bill's critics.
So, is it just more whining, or is it more good news?

:cuss: I used up all my sick and vacation time already on my kids, (four fevers, four cases of the runs, and eight ear infections....) but I'll be calling tomorrow and there with you all at the Capitol in spirit.
 
Well that sounds promising. I'm so skeptical, still, that I won't believe it 'til I see it.

Man, what a sweet victory this will be should things fall our way.

Dick - I'll be taking you out for a steak dinner in thanks for your efforts. :)
 
two observations

Quote #1: "Instead of opening up the way for people to carry concealed weapons, Barrett said, the Legislature should be working to rid Wisconsin of illegal guns."

This is not an either/or proposition. You can, and should, do both!

Quote #2: "We do not need more guns in Milwaukee," he said. "This bill will likely increase the number of people getting killed."

I think Clint Eastwood said it best...something along the lines of: "Nothing wrong with shooting people...as long as the right people get shot." Bad guys getting killed in the commission of a crime is not the same thing as law-abiding citizens being disarmed by their elected officials and then getting killed by bad guys...
 
AJ Dual said:
I forgot about that veto override. Awsome! Then the string has been broken! One less negative then!

What does everyone make of this Milwaukee Urinal-Sentinel Article?:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jan06/388528.asp

- Are they gearing up to concede defeat? Or is this "telling the truth" to be alarmist to the anti's and make one last stab at rallying the troops?

- If this is a semi-official throwing in the towel? Why do it through the Mayor of Milwaukee?


So, is it just more whining, or is it more good news?

:cuss: I used up all my sick and vacation time already on my kids, (four fevers, four cases of the runs, and eight ear infections....) but I'll be calling tomorrow and there with you all at the Capitol in spirit.

I read that article first thing this morning and must admit it brightened a dreary Monday morning for me! I don't think this article would have been written if the dem insiders feel confident aboout their over-ride chances. Of course this could be the old political trick of conceding defeat and then when victorious they act as though they just won a huge, huge political victory - and try to drive the news cycle with their 'great victory' and tout their leadership and solidarity. I certainly hope that's not the case.

I do believe Doyle's ethical/legal/political problems could not have been better timed for the PPA vote. I'll be there tomorrow to cheer on Steinbrink and Van Akkeren. (Although if they go the other way I may not be composed enough to drive myself home!)
 
The thing that still has me scratching my head is Barrett.

Barrett? The Mayor of Milwaukee?

Granted, he's orginaly from the Legislature, so I guess the meeting was just a matter of "old cronies week", but why is he the mouthpiece? Just who is their message aimed at?

Did they really meet just to discuss passage of the PPA? If so, then it sounds like it was a "Okay, CCW is going to pass, how do we cope?" type of meeting. (Answer: Do nothing, and everything will be fine, just like in 37 other shall-issue states, you blissninnys…)

Either way, it certainly seems as though the Democratic minority leadership is NOT confident about the veto being upheld. Not confident at all. But then, neither are we.

I'm guessing that this means VanAkkeren and Steinbrink are going down to the wire to hold out for the best deal from either the Democrats or the Republicans on whatever it is they want. They're holding the PPA hostage to both sides for some ransom that probably has nothing to do with RKBA. If they had made up their minds either way, I see no benefit in hiding the fact from both sides. Why else would they do it?

More and more I realize that almost everything that passes or fails in the legislature is more about the power play than the actual issue at hand.
 
I just talked to a legislative aid for Gronemus (Dem Whitehall). He said that up to the weekend the calls were 6 to 1 in favor of the override, but that changed during the weekend , so the opposition is organized.

As far as Mayor Berrett, I think this is a trick. By saying that there will be “guns in the street by the end of the week” I think they are trying to cause outrage in people who are otherwise silent, causing them to react against.

My wife and I will be there all day for the vote. We live or die by one vote again.

Dan
 
He said that up to the weekend the calls were 6 to 1 in favor of the override, but that changed during the weekend , so the opposition is organized.
Changed by how much, did they say? :uhoh:
 
No he didn't volunteer that information. He gave me the impression though, that he did not know which way it was going to go.
Dan
 
I just about had to pick my jaw up off the floor today when I heard, on the radio, people talking that the veto was likely to be overridden. When you hear talk like that it puts you in a better mood for sure.

For now, I'm cautiously optimistic. I will be at the Capitol for sure tomorrow...
 
Barbara Gronemus' staff doesn't know if the callers are supporters or opponents, so they're being intentionally vague. She's with us.

I still think that even the Democrat leadership doesn't know which way Steinbrink and Van Akkeren will vote, so they're hedging their bets with press conferences like the one with Barrett.

Both Van Akkeren and Steinbrink have been getting bombarded with calls and emails. Steinbrink's son lives in Texas and has a permit, and he's been ragging on his father to vote for the bill so he'll be able to carry when he comes to visit.

Veterans are also on Steinbrink, as he's a veteran himself.

If we lose tomorrow, it won't be for lack of trying.

However, I'm feeling a bit more optimistic every day.
 
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