Drizzt
Member
Capital Times (Madison, WI)
July 25, 2003 Friday, ALL Editions
SECTION: FRONT; Pg. 1A
LENGTH: 1120 words
HEADLINE: LAW ENFORCERS SHOOT DOWN IDEA OF CONCEALED GUNS
BYLINE: Chuck Nowlen The Capital Times
BODY:
A state law allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons in Wisconsin?
Not a good idea, according to top Dane County police administrators interviewed recently.
The group was led by Sheriff Gary Hamblin, whose office would be responsible for licensing Dane County concealed gun carriers under a bill promised last week by state Rep. Scott Gunderson, R-Union Grove, and state Sen. Dave Zien, R-Eau Claire.
"I'm not an anti-gun person. I'm a deer hunter and a grouse hunter, and I appreciate the constitutional right to bear arms," Hamblin said. "But I'm not at all convinced of the need in Wisconsin for citizens to be carrying concealed weapons at this time."
Madison Police Chief Richard Williams added, "Let's say an officer is working State Street on a weekend night with hundreds or maybe thousands of people out on the street. Well, I could do without knowing that maybe one out of every 15 of those people might be carrying a gun, especially when I think about all the drinking that goes on that already makes a lot of crazy things happen."
Hamblin, Williams and others took issue with proponents' argument that concealed weapons could reduce crime by allowing citizens to protect themselves on the streets, with Hamblin noting "mixed results" in the 44 other states where concealed weapons are legal.
"The statistics from other states show different results in different time periods," Hamblin said. "So I think it's unclear at best what effect, if any, this legislation would have on crime rates."
Verona Police Chief Bernard Coughlin agreed. "The crime rate in Wisconsin is already at a 30-year low," he noted. "So what exactly has changed that people feel compelled to change the law now?"
Hamblin also predicted an administrative nightmare if his office were required to process new concealed-weapon license applications without additional funding. As of July 18, he noted, the Dane County Sheriff's Office was "already 498 police reports behind" in processing "normal investigative" cases.
"I don't think this bill adequately addresses the resources that will be needed to administer it," Hamblin said.
The sheriff could not estimate how much additional manpower and funding his office would require under Zien and Gunderson's bill, or how many license requests might be submitted in Dane County.
Hamblin did, however, predict "a substantial number of requests," adding, "we just don't have the staff to process them."
*
Creating Big Brother?: Sun Prairie Police Chief Frank Sleeter also worried that Zien and Gunderson's bill might undo "decades of advances" in Dane County neighborhood and community policing, which emphasize a cooperative partnership between citizens and officers in fighting crime.
At the heart of that partnership is the current assumption - based on a 131-year-old concealed weapon ban in Wisconsin - that, when approached by an officer, a citizen will be unarmed, Sleeter noted.
If concealed weapons are legal, however, the opposite assumption will dominate out of safety concerns, Sleeter and others said.
"Police officers would like to go home alive at the end of their shifts, and the thought that a weapon might be present somewhere is a very scary thought for us, so we're not going to take a chance," Sleeter said.
"So that'll require what many people might consider a more confrontational approach in which more people will be handcuffed, for example, until we determine whether a weapon is present."
Sleeter added, "A lot of people will see that as a kind of Big Brother attitude, and, with all the efforts we've put into neighborhood policing and community policing, I don't think we want that. There is absolutely no value for law enforcement to be in a Big Brother-type situation."
Felons, drug addicts and the mentally ill could not be licensed under Zien and Gunderson's proposed Personal Protection Act, and applicants would have to pass gun training and a background check, the latter also conducted by local sheriff's offices.
The two lawmakers resurrected their bill shortly after the Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled July 15 that in the wake of a recent amendment to the state constitution protecting citizens' right to bear arms, gun owners may carry concealed weapons at their homes and businesses.
Zien and Gunderson's bill, when coupled with existing laws, would allow licensees to carry concealed guns anywhere except police stations, jails, taverns, airports, schools, public buildings and other specified places.
Similar bills have failed in the state Legislature, but Gunderson said that with both houses now controlled by Republicans, "I feel strongly it will pass both houses sometime this fall, and it will be on the governor's desk by October."
*
No training follow-up: Coughlin emphasized that while police officers are required to test their gun proficiency three to five times a year, the Personal Protection Act carries no such standards for citizens after licenses are approved.
That could be especially dangerous if a gun-toting citizen happens to be intoxicated when confronted suddenly by a criminal, he said.
"Someone carrying a concealed weapon might have good intentions," Coughlin explained. "But if there's a mixture, say, of anger or maybe intoxication or maybe a sudden unplanned event that triggers some kind of even temporary instability, well, that's just a very dangerous mix."
Hamblin added that applicants' mental health would be almost impossible to verify during routine background checks, since in the absence of a court order, mental health records are confidential.
"Let's say you voluntarily checked yourself into a mental hospital for 60 days, then signed yourself out and applied for a concealed weapon permit," Hamblin said. "Well, as a law enforcement officer, I can check to see if you've been arrested. But there's no way of determining your mental health other than your word."
The Dane County Police Chiefs Association has long been on the record opposing legislation that would allow Wisconsin citizens to carry concealed weapons, Coughlin noted.
So has the Wisconsin Police Chiefs Association, said Oregon Police Chief Doug Pettit, chair of the organization's legislative committee.
"And I don't see our position changing any time soon, even in light of the Supreme Court's decision," Pettit said.
He acknowledged that Wisconsin is one of only six states - including Illinois, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska and Ohio - without "conceal-carry" laws like the one Zien and Gunderson propose.
He added, however, "I really don't see what the impetus for one is at this point. I mean, just because the Joneses have it doesn't mean Wisconsin needs it too."
July 25, 2003 Friday, ALL Editions
SECTION: FRONT; Pg. 1A
LENGTH: 1120 words
HEADLINE: LAW ENFORCERS SHOOT DOWN IDEA OF CONCEALED GUNS
BYLINE: Chuck Nowlen The Capital Times
BODY:
A state law allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons in Wisconsin?
Not a good idea, according to top Dane County police administrators interviewed recently.
The group was led by Sheriff Gary Hamblin, whose office would be responsible for licensing Dane County concealed gun carriers under a bill promised last week by state Rep. Scott Gunderson, R-Union Grove, and state Sen. Dave Zien, R-Eau Claire.
"I'm not an anti-gun person. I'm a deer hunter and a grouse hunter, and I appreciate the constitutional right to bear arms," Hamblin said. "But I'm not at all convinced of the need in Wisconsin for citizens to be carrying concealed weapons at this time."
Madison Police Chief Richard Williams added, "Let's say an officer is working State Street on a weekend night with hundreds or maybe thousands of people out on the street. Well, I could do without knowing that maybe one out of every 15 of those people might be carrying a gun, especially when I think about all the drinking that goes on that already makes a lot of crazy things happen."
Hamblin, Williams and others took issue with proponents' argument that concealed weapons could reduce crime by allowing citizens to protect themselves on the streets, with Hamblin noting "mixed results" in the 44 other states where concealed weapons are legal.
"The statistics from other states show different results in different time periods," Hamblin said. "So I think it's unclear at best what effect, if any, this legislation would have on crime rates."
Verona Police Chief Bernard Coughlin agreed. "The crime rate in Wisconsin is already at a 30-year low," he noted. "So what exactly has changed that people feel compelled to change the law now?"
Hamblin also predicted an administrative nightmare if his office were required to process new concealed-weapon license applications without additional funding. As of July 18, he noted, the Dane County Sheriff's Office was "already 498 police reports behind" in processing "normal investigative" cases.
"I don't think this bill adequately addresses the resources that will be needed to administer it," Hamblin said.
The sheriff could not estimate how much additional manpower and funding his office would require under Zien and Gunderson's bill, or how many license requests might be submitted in Dane County.
Hamblin did, however, predict "a substantial number of requests," adding, "we just don't have the staff to process them."
*
Creating Big Brother?: Sun Prairie Police Chief Frank Sleeter also worried that Zien and Gunderson's bill might undo "decades of advances" in Dane County neighborhood and community policing, which emphasize a cooperative partnership between citizens and officers in fighting crime.
At the heart of that partnership is the current assumption - based on a 131-year-old concealed weapon ban in Wisconsin - that, when approached by an officer, a citizen will be unarmed, Sleeter noted.
If concealed weapons are legal, however, the opposite assumption will dominate out of safety concerns, Sleeter and others said.
"Police officers would like to go home alive at the end of their shifts, and the thought that a weapon might be present somewhere is a very scary thought for us, so we're not going to take a chance," Sleeter said.
"So that'll require what many people might consider a more confrontational approach in which more people will be handcuffed, for example, until we determine whether a weapon is present."
Sleeter added, "A lot of people will see that as a kind of Big Brother attitude, and, with all the efforts we've put into neighborhood policing and community policing, I don't think we want that. There is absolutely no value for law enforcement to be in a Big Brother-type situation."
Felons, drug addicts and the mentally ill could not be licensed under Zien and Gunderson's proposed Personal Protection Act, and applicants would have to pass gun training and a background check, the latter also conducted by local sheriff's offices.
The two lawmakers resurrected their bill shortly after the Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled July 15 that in the wake of a recent amendment to the state constitution protecting citizens' right to bear arms, gun owners may carry concealed weapons at their homes and businesses.
Zien and Gunderson's bill, when coupled with existing laws, would allow licensees to carry concealed guns anywhere except police stations, jails, taverns, airports, schools, public buildings and other specified places.
Similar bills have failed in the state Legislature, but Gunderson said that with both houses now controlled by Republicans, "I feel strongly it will pass both houses sometime this fall, and it will be on the governor's desk by October."
*
No training follow-up: Coughlin emphasized that while police officers are required to test their gun proficiency three to five times a year, the Personal Protection Act carries no such standards for citizens after licenses are approved.
That could be especially dangerous if a gun-toting citizen happens to be intoxicated when confronted suddenly by a criminal, he said.
"Someone carrying a concealed weapon might have good intentions," Coughlin explained. "But if there's a mixture, say, of anger or maybe intoxication or maybe a sudden unplanned event that triggers some kind of even temporary instability, well, that's just a very dangerous mix."
Hamblin added that applicants' mental health would be almost impossible to verify during routine background checks, since in the absence of a court order, mental health records are confidential.
"Let's say you voluntarily checked yourself into a mental hospital for 60 days, then signed yourself out and applied for a concealed weapon permit," Hamblin said. "Well, as a law enforcement officer, I can check to see if you've been arrested. But there's no way of determining your mental health other than your word."
The Dane County Police Chiefs Association has long been on the record opposing legislation that would allow Wisconsin citizens to carry concealed weapons, Coughlin noted.
So has the Wisconsin Police Chiefs Association, said Oregon Police Chief Doug Pettit, chair of the organization's legislative committee.
"And I don't see our position changing any time soon, even in light of the Supreme Court's decision," Pettit said.
He acknowledged that Wisconsin is one of only six states - including Illinois, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska and Ohio - without "conceal-carry" laws like the one Zien and Gunderson propose.
He added, however, "I really don't see what the impetus for one is at this point. I mean, just because the Joneses have it doesn't mean Wisconsin needs it too."
