xenophon
Member
Well, looks like they have exhausted their arguments over locations permitted for CCW....so now they have to nit-pick the secrecy clause.
Weapons permits would be secret
Bill would exempt names from open records law
By STEVEN WALTERS
Madison - The names of those who apply to carry concealed weapons would be kept secret, whether they are granted a permit or not, under a bill the Legislature is expected to pass.
Concealed Weapons Bill
Backers of the bill say that secrecy is important, so criminals can't look up records and target people who don't carry weapons. They also say the 37,000 or more law-abiding Wisconsin citizens expected to apply to carry concealed weapons should not be discouraged from doing so because their names may become public.
"Do you really want to give burglars a list of whose homes to burglarize?" said Joseph Olson, a law professor at Hamline University in St. Paul, who wrote Minnesota's new concealed weapons law, which keeps the names of permit holders secret.
Police know the people who have concealed weapons permits, and they're "the only ones who have a legitimate need to know," Olson said.
But Gov. Jim Doyle, who has promised to veto the bill if it comes to his desk, called "absurd" the bill's secrecy provision, which would provide a blanket exemption to the state open records law.
"Under this bill, hunting licenses would still be considered open records in Wisconsin, yet permits allowing people to carry concealed weapons into Little League games would be kept secret," Doyle said in a statement.
Republican legislators pushing the bill are trying to conceal weapons and "trying to conceal records, as well," the governor said.
Under the bill passed by the Senate on Friday, local sheriffs would issue the concealed weapons permits and the state Justice Department would do background checks on applicants. Those officials could report only numbers summarizing those activities.
An attempt by Sen. Fred Risser (D-Madison) to make the process of applying for a concealed weapons permit subject to the open records law lost on a voice vote.
The bill is expected to be approved by the state Assembly early next month. It is unclear whether the Legislature would have sufficient votes to override the governor's veto.
Names often public
Many of the 45 states that allow concealed weapons make the names of permit holders public, said Justin Marks, a research analyst who monitors the issue for the National Conference of State Legislatures in Denver.
But Rep. Scott Gunderson (R-Waterford), the bill's chief Assembly sponsor, called the secrecy requirement one of the best features of the proposal, because it would mean that criminals wouldn't know who may be carrying a handgun, stun gun, knife or billy club.
"I think that's one of the beauties of this bill: People aren't going to know who's carrying," Gunderson added.
Gunderson said law-abiding permit holders should not have their privacy invaded by having their names made public.
"That should be between that person and the sheriff, as far as I'm concerned," he said.
Gunderson and the chief Senate sponsor of the bill, Sen. Dave Zien (R-Eau Claire), said newspapers in other states have published lists of concealed weapon permits.
"We just don't want that to happen" in Wisconsin, Zien said.
Asked whether a Wisconsin homeowner should be able to look up whether his or her neighbor has a concealed weapons permit, Zien said: "No, absolutely not. Your neighbor, it's his right and privilege to have that permit."
If those names were public, Zien added: "Before you know it, the criminals, druggies and wackos, they are going to be saying, 'Oh, geez, they don't have a permit. Their name wasn't in the paper.' So they might become an easy target."
Gunderson said, "There's some folks who want that list public, to be able to look at - to be able to pull that up any time and know who is, and isn't, a permit holder. I just think that's bad policy."
Openness urged
Mike Bauer, administrator of the state Justice Department's Legal Services Division, said Attorney General Peg Lautenschlager opposes the secrecy provision.
"It runs counter to the very openness and quest for public integrity that her office is working to achieve on behalf of Wisconsin citizens," Bauer said. "It seems to be contradictory to keep the names of those who carry concealed weapons confidential, and yet at the same time expect that carrying such a concealed weapon could deter crime."
Dane County Sheriff Gary Hamblin, who like most sheriffs opposes the concealed weapons law, noted the many public records that are available, including how much an individual pays in property taxes.
"Why shouldn't you have the same right to (see) a concealed weapon permit?" said Hamblin, who noted that he owns at least six guns. "I've always been a proponent of open records, and open government."
Open records advocates also want that secrecy provision changed.
Making public the names of those with concealed weapons permits would be a way to ensure the law is working and to check whether people with criminal records are getting permits, said Sandra George, executive director of the Wisconsin Newspaper Association.
Newspaper association lobbyist Peter Christianson told legislators that the balancing test in the open records law could govern special circumstances under which those with a concealed weapons permit should have their names kept secret.
"If there is a situation where the identity of a person who has applied for and/or been granted a license should not be disclosed - such as when the applicant has been a victim of domestic abuse - the open records law contains a balancing test," Christianson said.
"County sheriffs have been successfully applying the balancing test for many years," he added.
From the Oct. 27, 2003 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Weapons permits would be secret
Bill would exempt names from open records law
By STEVEN WALTERS
Madison - The names of those who apply to carry concealed weapons would be kept secret, whether they are granted a permit or not, under a bill the Legislature is expected to pass.
Concealed Weapons Bill
Backers of the bill say that secrecy is important, so criminals can't look up records and target people who don't carry weapons. They also say the 37,000 or more law-abiding Wisconsin citizens expected to apply to carry concealed weapons should not be discouraged from doing so because their names may become public.
"Do you really want to give burglars a list of whose homes to burglarize?" said Joseph Olson, a law professor at Hamline University in St. Paul, who wrote Minnesota's new concealed weapons law, which keeps the names of permit holders secret.
Police know the people who have concealed weapons permits, and they're "the only ones who have a legitimate need to know," Olson said.
But Gov. Jim Doyle, who has promised to veto the bill if it comes to his desk, called "absurd" the bill's secrecy provision, which would provide a blanket exemption to the state open records law.
"Under this bill, hunting licenses would still be considered open records in Wisconsin, yet permits allowing people to carry concealed weapons into Little League games would be kept secret," Doyle said in a statement.
Republican legislators pushing the bill are trying to conceal weapons and "trying to conceal records, as well," the governor said.
Under the bill passed by the Senate on Friday, local sheriffs would issue the concealed weapons permits and the state Justice Department would do background checks on applicants. Those officials could report only numbers summarizing those activities.
An attempt by Sen. Fred Risser (D-Madison) to make the process of applying for a concealed weapons permit subject to the open records law lost on a voice vote.
The bill is expected to be approved by the state Assembly early next month. It is unclear whether the Legislature would have sufficient votes to override the governor's veto.
Names often public
Many of the 45 states that allow concealed weapons make the names of permit holders public, said Justin Marks, a research analyst who monitors the issue for the National Conference of State Legislatures in Denver.
But Rep. Scott Gunderson (R-Waterford), the bill's chief Assembly sponsor, called the secrecy requirement one of the best features of the proposal, because it would mean that criminals wouldn't know who may be carrying a handgun, stun gun, knife or billy club.
"I think that's one of the beauties of this bill: People aren't going to know who's carrying," Gunderson added.
Gunderson said law-abiding permit holders should not have their privacy invaded by having their names made public.
"That should be between that person and the sheriff, as far as I'm concerned," he said.
Gunderson and the chief Senate sponsor of the bill, Sen. Dave Zien (R-Eau Claire), said newspapers in other states have published lists of concealed weapon permits.
"We just don't want that to happen" in Wisconsin, Zien said.
Asked whether a Wisconsin homeowner should be able to look up whether his or her neighbor has a concealed weapons permit, Zien said: "No, absolutely not. Your neighbor, it's his right and privilege to have that permit."
If those names were public, Zien added: "Before you know it, the criminals, druggies and wackos, they are going to be saying, 'Oh, geez, they don't have a permit. Their name wasn't in the paper.' So they might become an easy target."
Gunderson said, "There's some folks who want that list public, to be able to look at - to be able to pull that up any time and know who is, and isn't, a permit holder. I just think that's bad policy."
Openness urged
Mike Bauer, administrator of the state Justice Department's Legal Services Division, said Attorney General Peg Lautenschlager opposes the secrecy provision.
"It runs counter to the very openness and quest for public integrity that her office is working to achieve on behalf of Wisconsin citizens," Bauer said. "It seems to be contradictory to keep the names of those who carry concealed weapons confidential, and yet at the same time expect that carrying such a concealed weapon could deter crime."
Dane County Sheriff Gary Hamblin, who like most sheriffs opposes the concealed weapons law, noted the many public records that are available, including how much an individual pays in property taxes.
"Why shouldn't you have the same right to (see) a concealed weapon permit?" said Hamblin, who noted that he owns at least six guns. "I've always been a proponent of open records, and open government."
Open records advocates also want that secrecy provision changed.
Making public the names of those with concealed weapons permits would be a way to ensure the law is working and to check whether people with criminal records are getting permits, said Sandra George, executive director of the Wisconsin Newspaper Association.
Newspaper association lobbyist Peter Christianson told legislators that the balancing test in the open records law could govern special circumstances under which those with a concealed weapons permit should have their names kept secret.
"If there is a situation where the identity of a person who has applied for and/or been granted a license should not be disclosed - such as when the applicant has been a victim of domestic abuse - the open records law contains a balancing test," Christianson said.
"County sheriffs have been successfully applying the balancing test for many years," he added.
From the Oct. 27, 2003 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
