Wilderness survival rifle thoughts?

[tahunua001]

looking at a long term survival situation

I am kindof partial to the AR15 in 223 idea. you can carry a 200 rounds of 5.56 in the same amount of space as 100 rounds of 44mag(don't get me wrong 44 mag is far from the least appealing round for survival). in a bind it can be used for deer, black bear, large cats, wolves, coyotes, rabbits, squirrels grouse, turkeys and just about anything else under $300 pounds. I wouldn't want to bring XM193 along or anything but a well constructed soft point and some low velocity FMJ for the tiny critters to preserve meat would be very useful. as is customary in these type of threads you can not live for prolonged periods of time on red meat alone. a book containing pictures and descriptions of local edibles like mushrooms and berries as well as a pocket fishing kit would be necessary to stay in the wild for any prolonged period of time. and for the people that claim that distilled water is bad for you and that you can't live off of it I say you are full of it. I made it through a 7 month deployment on a naval ship drinking nothing but distilled sea water. unless you are planning on spending years out in the wild then there is no problem wit boiling your own water.

 

[lefteyedom]

Biggest issue is to have a weapon when in a "survival situation" and that boils down to weight and ease of carry. The weapon would need to be robust enough to endure rough treatment.

A good quality 22 pistol with 200 rds could keep you fed for a long time. The addition fact that it is very easily to carry seals the deal.

a 16" barrel bolt action rifle with a scope and iron sights,chambered in a 308 class cartridge would cover any other need. 100 rds of ammo would keep you going.

Lastly having both the pistol and rifle thread for the same suppressor would be very useful.

 

[Motega]

The air force issue(s)(d) an AR-7 , .22 with a .410 over/under in some cases I think. It floats, it's light, it kills stuff.
The thing about a survival (anything) is you actually have to have it with you to be of any use and too often anything that can't be stowed and forgotten about is too easy to leave home.

If you do that much backcountry stuff you ought to have some redundancy anyway, but I just wonder how long a 10 pound rifle would actually be feasible to lug around if you have to traverse any truly rugged terrain. How long till it falls off, sinks, etc.?

I like contemplating these scenarios and preparing for them, but if I ever was really lost I would much rather have a locator beacon for the same $500 a rifle would cost.

Also- stainless is gimmicky IMHO. The stainless guns I've tortured have fared MUCH worse than military parkerized stuff.

Make a list of what you would be most afraid of in a survival situation in your particular field of operations- are you more worried about bears or Meth labs? Swamps or cold? Go from there maybe?

 

[Robtattoo]

I'll take my Henry .22 thanks. Minute of squirrel accurate at 50yds, light enough, quick pointing, fast follow up shots & 21 rounds of .22 short.
At bowhunting ranges, a .22 in the head is a quick kill on pretty much anything that ain't a bear or buff, whether it has 4 legs or only 2.

What's not to like about a caliber that you can get 1000 of in your pocket!

 

[GCBurner]

I took my Charter Arms AR-7 out to the range this afternoon, and tried it with a variety of .22LR ammo, standard velocity Remington, Federal HP, CCI Blazer solids, and CCI Match. It functioned reliably with all of them, but from a rest, I couldn't get any of them to group any tighter than about three inches at 25 yards, and all the groups were about 2 inches to the right of the point of aim. I need a sight pusher to adjust the front sight for the windage, since the rear receiver sight only slides up and down.

 

[VA27]

M1 Carbine. As light and handy as a 22. Ammo not too bulky. Soft points for deer-sized game. FMJ for everything else.

 

[DM~]

That is awesome! I'm curious, how is the point of impact with all three barrels vs. point of aim with the scope?

And... WHAT is it?! I want one

The rifles/shotgun is regulated VERY well to the sights, the scope goes on or off in seconds, and ALWAYS goes back to being sighted in perfectly.

It breaks down for easy storage or travel,



It's VERY accurate,



And has been a pleasure to own and hunt with over the last 25 + years i've owned it. Working perfectly on extended hunts in the bush, putting huge amounts of meat in my freezer,



It's a Krieghoff Semper...

DM

 

[Alaska444]

The rifles/shotgun is regulated VERY well to the sights, the scope goes on or off in seconds, and ALWAYS goes back to being sighted in perfectly.

It breaks down for easy storage or travel,



It's VERY accurate,



And has been a pleasure to own and hunt with over the last 25 + years i've owned it. Working perfectly on extended hunts in the bush, putting huge amounts of meat in my freezer,



It's a Krieghoff Semper...

DM

Can't get any better than that for a survival rifle. I wonder if I could survive the sticker shock on it though? LOL

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

What are you trying to survive?

A post-apocalyptic, para-military bad-guy dominated scenario?

A zombie abocalypse?

Or general wilderness survival?

General, honest-to-God wilderness survival rarely needs anything more than a .22. I'd choose either the .22LR or, if more power is desired, the .22WMR.

Under survival conditions, small game is very likely the best choice for food. Large game represents larger quantities of meat that may well spoil under typical survival conditions, long before the majority can be consumed.

And don't let anybody out there tell you that you cannot take larger game with a .22, most especially the .22WMR. Yes, it's not nearly so well suited as the high powered rifles for that, but in a pinch it'll do the job.

For me, I'd go with a Marlin 783 bolt action .22WMR. (My first rifle.) Or something very similar. I can carry/stock plenty of ammunition, far more than for a high powered rifle.


Now, that said, everybody's gonna have their opinions and their favorites. Nothing wrong with that. Especially if it'll do the job they envision for their survival situation.

 

[hueyville]

Only about 3% (and I am probably giving them credit) of the population could probably actually survive in the wildreness no matter how many rifles you give them. Might find a few here but how many folks left that can triangulate their position on a map with a compass when the GPS satellites quite broadcasting signal? And a hundred and one other lesser know skills these days? I plan on living out of the pockets of the bloated corpses.

 

[gazpacho]

Single shot 12ga shotgun with a 22lr insert.

A pocket full of 22lr, 3 slugs, 3 buck and 6 fowl would keep me happy for a long time.

 

[jeepnik]

For a couple of decades I carried an AR-7 in my Jeep. I was perfectly happy and it served it's uses well.

Then I had an incident involving two legged critters that made me wish for something more. But, I still wanted something that was compact and easily stored in the half cab of my CJ-8.

I finally modified an old Mossberg 500, .410 shotgun. I had an old barrel shortened and recrowned. I took off the original buttstock and got a youth stock. Then I modified the stock bolt by lengthening it and putting a cross bar on the end so it could be tightened and loosed without tools. I removed the screws from the buttcap and installed heavy duty velcro.

It's only about a bit longer than the AR-7 taken down, and assembles about as fast.

With a selection of shot sizes and slugs, it's much more capable on critters both four and two legged.





It might not be for everyone, but for my desert running it just about perfect.

 

[Unistat]

The air force issue(s)(d) an AR-7 , .22 with a .410 over/under in some cases I think. It floats, it's light, it kills stuff...

You are conflating the AR-7 semi-auto take down .22lr with the M6 Scout folding .22/.410 O/U.

 

[USAF_Vet]

The air force issue(s)(d) an AR-7 , .22 with a .410 over/under in some cases I think. It floats, it's light, it kills stuff.

The Air Force hasn't issued anything like that in years.
Mostly it's an M-16/M-4 or an M-9 for pilots and flight crews.

 

[Malamute]

There isnt much wilderness to survive in.

It very much depends on what you're talking about. Going (intentionally) to live in some semi-wild corner to try to make it by foraging? Getting lost/stuck with a broken leg somewhere while hunting or backpack vacationing? End of civilized times?

I think most are thinking WAY too much ammo. Calvin Rutstrum used to spend 6 months at a time in the bush, and figured 20 rds of 30-30 or 1 50 rd box of 22's (depending on area and what was practical to hunt) was plenty for that period to feed himself and at times his dog team with.

I'm out and about in the fringes of one of the larger wild areas left in the lower 48. I take a handful of small game loads for my rifle when I'm out (I always have a rifle with me) and figure I could get along on small game for a short while if I fell down and broke a leg back in somewhere, or a deer or whatever if need be. Virtually nobody would be looking for me, I never tell anyone where I go, or even that I'm going. I'm not planning on trying to live out there for an extended period, just make meat if I got stuck until I could get out.

 

[Axel Larson]

I had thought about it when rereading some Gary Paulson and how when you have dogs you can attract some unwanted attention from bear or moose. Plus because of the weather he mention being stuck out for a few days more than planed.

 

[Alaska444]

There isnt much wilderness to survive in.

It very much depends on what you're talking about. Going (intentionally) to live in some semi-wild corner to try to make it by foraging? Getting lost/stuck with a broken leg somewhere while hunting or backpack vacationing? End of civilized times?

I think most are thinking WAY too much ammo. Calvin Rutstrum used to spend 6 months at a time in the bush, and figured 20 rds of 30-30 or 1 50 rd box of 22's (depending on area and what was practical to hunt) was plenty for that period to feed himself and at times his dog team with.

I'm out and about in the fringes of one of the larger wild areas left in the lower 48. I take a handful of small game loads for my rifle when I'm out (I always have a rifle with me) and figure I could get along on small game for a short while if I fell down and broke a leg back in somewhere, or a deer or whatever if need be. Virtually nobody would be looking for me, I never tell anyone where I go, or even that I'm going. I'm not planning on trying to live out there for an extended period, just make meat if I got stuck until I could get out.

I grew up in Alaska where that was the reality and I live in Northern Idaho where that is the reality of hunting. In fact, Northern Idaho in some ways is a more rugged terrain than most of the places I was at in Alaska.

Fortunately, there are still many places in this great nation where you can easily get lost and in a wilderness survival situation. In fact, just outside of Palm Springs, a couple got lost only a few miles from the city while up in the San Jacinto mountains. The surprising twist to this story is that they were saved by the materials found in an abandoned campsite from a man that came into that same valley and could not get out. He died and they were able to start a fire that brought forest service helicopter because of the smoke seen near Palm Springs.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-1605893.html

No, there are many places where you don't have to stray far from civilization to find yourself in trouble.

 

[armoredman]

My choice is this,



CZ 527M 7.62x39mm, weighs less than 6 pounds, very accurate with a good hard hitting medium range round. It has iron sights and the capability of a scope, but I like the ruggedness of irons, myself. Detachable magazine holds five, (can't get MecGar interested in making a ten rounder for it yet, darn), and is a joy to carry and shoot
Having said that, she's getting a new custom stock made right now, pillarde and bedded, and will have a "survival" twist a lot of people will either love and laugh at. We'll see, be another few months before it's done.
Until then, my "go to" rifle remains the vz-58, even though it is far heavier and bulkier - it's what I have.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Up here in AK, I'm with Alaska444's sentiments. If I can only have one gun in a survival situation, a shotgun with some slugs for bear defense and some shot for birds and bunnies. As a plus, the slugs would work if the situation warranted shooting big game for food and a moose or deer (depending on part of the state) was obliging enough to wander in range.

 

[Chris-bob]

.22Mag would be my choice.

 

[Alaska444]

Thanks HorseSoldier, you are truly a brilliant man. I couldn't agree more.

 

[-v-]

I like contemplating these scenarios and preparing for them, but if I ever was really lost I would much rather have a locator beacon for the same $500 a rifle would cost.

I'd go with the exact same thing in the lower-48. Alaska is its own unique ball of wax. I might toss in a light weight .22lr pistol and a dry box of 50 round of .22lr, but even then that's of questionable use if your only goal is to get un-lost. A flare gun might be more useful then a .22.

Now, roughing it, and living off the land? I'd go with a good scoped .22lr pistol. I don't plan to make jerky or haul around a solar-powered fridge, so I'm questioning the value of taking a medium-large animal, since how are you going to preserve that? A squirrel is 1-2lb of meat - enough for a meal. Add to that they are everywhere in the woods.

If this was part of a plane crash or truck kit, I think a 12ga or some other shotgun is not a bad idea either. I'm rather impartial to 20ga youth models for their size and weight.

 

[lefteyedom]

I love these conversation, if we just had a pot-belly stove and some AppleJack ...

 

[Alaska444]

I'd go with the exact same thing in the lower-48. Alaska is its own unique ball of wax. I might toss in a light weight .22lr pistol and a dry box of 50 round of .22lr, but even then that's of questionable use if your only goal is to get un-lost. A flare gun might be more useful then a .22.

Now, roughing it, and living off the land? I'd go with a good scoped .22lr pistol. I don't plan to make jerky or haul around a solar-powered fridge, so I'm questioning the value of taking a medium-large animal, since how are you going to preserve that? A squirrel is 1-2lb of meat - enough for a meal. Add to that they are everywhere in the woods.

If this was part of a plane crash or truck kit, I think a 12ga or some other shotgun is not a bad idea either. I'm rather impartial to 20ga youth models for their size and weight.

I don't see a whole lot of difference between Alaska and MT/ID/WY areas where we have big grizzlies, black bears and large moose. I will concede that a .22LR is a great choice for survival food, but I would want my Ruger SRH .44 Magnum strapped to my side for all of the other stuff you can run into. That would actually be a good combination.

 

[T.R.]

Dan'l Boone wintered in the Kentucky wilderness with a flintlock rifle in 45 caliber. He did OK. A modern camper can surpass his firepower with a Mossberg pump shotgun and changeable choke tubes. The rifled barrel produces amazing accuracy with sabot ammunition well out to 125 yards or so but 12 gauge recoil is really quite brutal.

I read about a Surveyor in Alaska that carried a Remington pump action rifle in 30-06 for a couple decades of wandering the remote places. He did OK, too.

Years ago, I knew a shepard who raised his flocks in the rugged and remote portions in Bighorn Mts. of nothern Wyoming. He carried a German surplus Mauser in 8mm. Pedro did OK, too.

The most important element of survival is adjusting the "nut" behind the buttplate.
TR