Will I be shunned for having a folding PG stock?

[braindead0]

Looking over the various threads on TFL and Here, is seems that PG stocks are considered by many to be almost laughable if not simply maligned...

Here's my personal take and reason I got a folding PG stock (Butler creek for specifics):

• First off, I prefer the more vertical grip that a PG provides, due to the angles it means that the distance to the grip is better for me (long arms). I did the 'pick out target, close eyes, mount and see if you're on target' test.. and pretty much the same as the regular stock.
• As far as the folding stock, that's what came with the PG which I definately wanted. The pull and drop are almost exactly like the factory synth stock, and I can put three shells in it too ;-). Couldn't care really if it folds, but I wanted the PG and didn't want to mail order something. And why not, I can fold it for transport and storage if need be.
• And, I've got an 870 so safety access isn't inhibited by a PG.

So, after reading up on how horrible PG's are (with not much in the way of logical reasons), I put my factory stock back on to try that out again and give it another chance.

I guess now the PG crowd will shun me

:banghead:

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

We don't like Pistol grips without shoulder stocks, since you don't get a good cheek weld.



I don't mind folders or stocks with pistol grips, on 870s, or defenders, or ithacas, because you can still reach the safety.


Putting a PG stock or folder on a mossberg is, to me, the height of folly, since you've now closed off the most direct route of travel to the safety.


If you like what you have, that's good.


personally, i'm thinking of acquiring a maverick to put a folder on for use as an under the seat gun in my car.

 

[HS/LD]

If it fits and feels good for you and doesn't mess with the gun controls (safety, action release etc.) then it should be no problem.

I think the problem is that people buy a pistol grip thinking that is what will make the SG more effective in a self-defense situation... the more experienced shotgunners here try to dispell that myth.

What make the gun more effective is more practice.

Rather than buy the pistol grip stock I bought ammo...

Regards,
HS/LD

 

[braindead0]

True, I have no illusions about it being any better overall.. I have fired 3" magnums without the stock and found that It works in a pinch at extreme close range (7yds and under).. and I actually take less abuse not using the shoulder stock ;-).. but I guess a 1000rds or so and I'll start getting used to it.

Just seems to feel better to me with the pistol grip, but like I said.. I've gone back to the factory stock to give it another chance.

 

[Onslaught]

If it floats YOUR boat...

I personally am a creature of habit. I think it's best if I remove as many variables as possible from a situation that I'm expected to REact rather than just act. The more similarity there is between my firearms, the better.

I also really REALLY like pistol grips on long-guns. Maybe it's my long arms too, but I feel much less awkward with my wrists at that angle, and I don't have to hold my elbows out like I have wings. either.

I went with the SpeedFeed IV-s to gain the pistol grip without losing shoulder contact surface area. So now, ALL my rifles and shotguns have a pistol grip and full stock, and I don't look like I'm flying South for the winter .

 

[braindead0]

I didn't think about that one, but now that you mention it..yup.. flying south it is.. I'll give it a try at our match this Sunday..

 

[Nippy]

Will I be shunned for having a folding PG stock

Not if you OWN with it!

CYBYWY

 

[Al Thompson]

PG only shotguns are usually sold to a new person by some gunstore clown. Hopefully we can steer new folks away from the clowns and give them enough info to make a good decision.

No one "looks down their nose" at PG shotguns, provided it was a matter of rational choice, not salesmanship.

An old buddy of mine almost fractured his wrist when he touched off a 3 inch buckshot round in a Kimmel Kamper. The Kimmel was a single shot with a PG. Guess what? The store that sold him the combo touted it as being ideal for HD.

Several years ago I purchased a almost NIB M1300 with the Pachmayer PG and forearm. He sold it cheap as "it kicked too much". Funny, once the wood parts were returned, kick was much lessened.

Several years ago an older fellow showed p at a SG sidematch with a 12 ga with a PG and the tommy gun looking forearm. He placed quite high in the match. When I asked him about the chooice, it was due to chest surgery. He could handle the recoil with his arms, not on his shoulder. Know what? He made a rational decision and followed it up with BA/UU/R.

P.S.

The logical reason? It takes longer time and much more ammo to get proficient with a PG only SG. The conventionally stocked (with or without PG) shotguns are much quicker to acheive proficiency.

 

[PJR]

You will not be shunned, exiled, ridiculed or thought of in a low manner. It's your gun and you should durn well put on it what you want. On my gun I wanted to spend a ridiculous amount on a walnut stock. Different strokes as they say.

It's true that the pg isn't in favor here and the folding stock while better doesn't have many adherents. But if it works for you and makes you happy then more power (shotgun power that is) to you.

Paul

 

[Dave McCracken]

Not shunned, pitied nor scorned.You'll get plenty of advice, tho. You may have noticed.

My choler is reserved for PG only shotguns. And I've mellowed to the point where I just suggest running a few fast COFS with and without to see how an individual does. The ones that have, have universally chosen the standard or full with PG stock, usually the standard.

Folders seem to also have smaller butts, so kick is concentrated a bit. This may bother you or maybe not. Good form and moderation in load choices are at least as important.

As someone said, if your boat floats with it...

 

[Hkmp5sd]

If you can take a folding stock shotgun to the range and fire as many shells as rapidly as the other guys that are shooting, without moaning in pain, no one will say anything bad about your shotgun. In fact, you will impress many of them.

If you need someone to help you pop your shoulder back in it's socket after each shot, there may be some adverse comments about your decision.

 

[braindead0]

That's funny, the butler creek folding stock pad is only 1/4" different in size compared to the factory stock, and it's actually a wee bit softer from my short comparison.

As I said, I'll be shooting a COF this weekend with the full stock.. My biggest gripe with regular stocks is that my arms are so long that when I pull the stock firmly into my shoulder, my biceps tend to cramp up at times due to the sharp angle my elbow has to bend. I need an 18" pull for serious comfort... but the PG move my wrist a few inches and helps.

I may try to find a wood PG non-folding stock sometime, that'd add a little weight as well... an oversized pad would help with the length too.

 

[Al Thompson]

You may simply need to relax your arm. I take a 36 inch sleeve with an 18 inch neck and find that most stocks fit me well.

 

[Mannlicher]

what do you care if others do not share your opinions? Make your decisions based on what you feel is right for you. If you like a PG stock use it.

 

[sm]

Shunned...no.

Shotguns (any firearm) is simply a tool. Effiecient designs exist for effective applications.
The shotgun as a weapon ( any weapon) is IMO best left to form follows function.
Armored car guards, pg SG are all that are allowed.
Surgery-again-as in anything: Improvise/ Adapt /Overcome
I kept one in my trunk (required) fear of kidnapping...I practiced this and also kept a 1911 in truck...talk about close quarters.
I kept PG/SG in some business settings-conceal easy and element of surprise. I always used a full stock when could-period.

Personally I don't like them, they have thier place and req's. I'd rather fire a stocked one "off shoulder".

I've mentioned I've fired a 3.5 " load of 00 buck ["friggin' train wreck"] I may be dumb-but I ain't stupid, I fired off shoulder, buttstock alongside hip, let arms "recoil". I'm not recoil sensitve, I can fire a box of 25 00 or slugs-no problem, I know the stance Dave and Preacher mentioned.

My doctor and 4 other idiots (even using proper stance) with a 835 mossy, "hurt bad" firing- them candlerockets.

I have a guy whom just had a lung removed, needed a HD set up. Too weak to use a handgun, too sore for recoil. He can't rack a pump and a semi too heavy. Single shot .410 is what he is using--I set this up for him-- he can handle this full stock better than anything else, granted,not what he prefers, but again: Improvise/Adapt/Overcome.

ps don't underestimate a single shot in .410

 

[braindead0]

My wife can't handle even whimpy 12ga recoil, if she can't handle a 20 I have no problem with .410. I don't have any numbers off hand but I'd imagine a .410 slug would have plenty of energy.

I agree with the PG only being rather useless for a lot of things, but as I said this folding stock has roughly the same ergo's as the factory, perhaps it doesn't sit quite as high.

It's nice having a reasonable discussion about the issue, and I appreciate everybody's input.

 

[sm]

FYI

>.410 1/5 oz slug: MV =1830 fps /V@ 50 yds=1318 fps
>Energy in ft lbs: ME =651/50 yds = 338

> .44 mag JSP: MV=990 /V@ 50 yds =1081
>Energy ft lbs :ME =741/@ 50 yds=623

So for HD , what 7yds to say 15.yds... "if its down-its down"

 

[rugerfreak]

Beware the top folders----local dealer had an 870 outfitted with a top folding stock that I can invision peeling a good chunk out of my face under heavy recoil.

Heck---it dug into my face just handling it in the store. Not good.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Some of the early Rem folders cut faces.

Re the 410, the standard 2 /12" field load has about the same muzzle moxie as the old 41 magnum Police load. That last was well above 90% for one shot stops in its heyday.IOW, the 410 will do well for HD. Once outside, of course, things change.

 

[braindead0]

The butler creek folder I have folds to the right, and doesn't get in the way of much. Plus it's plastic of some sort, and all the edges are rounded nicely. I've fired 3" magnum buck loads with no ill effects.. except the smile on my face ;-)

Perhaps a youth model .410 pump would work best for my wife, I'm sure that wouldn't be too much recoil for her..

 

[Onslaught]

That's funny, the butler creek folding stock pad is only 1/4" different in size compared to the factory stock, and it's actually a wee bit softer from my short comparison.

If this is your new folding stock:

Butler Creek specifically addressed increased recoil in it's design.

"The wider and radiused comb is designed for comfort during shooting. "

I think you chose well...

This thing on the other hand:

Is barely an inch wide at the butt, and makes the recoil MUCH more noticeable! I had the regular NON-folding version of this stock, and took it off because of the extra recoil, even from field loads. The SpeedFeed I have on it now has slightly LESS than the factory stock in the recoil department.

 

[braindead0]

That's the one (the new one). The only problem is has is that the top of my hand takes a little abuse from the folding hinge point. It's just flat metal (the pin in the picture is flush) so it's not a big deal.

The little shell holders are pretty convenient as well, I thought about a speedfeed but it seems rather odd to have some shell on one side and more on the other..

I've also picked up a speed stripper (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=4148&s=9745#9745) for ammy carry, so I should have sufficient reloads.

 

[Rupestris]

braindead0,
If you are thinking about getting a .410, take a look at the Marlin new model 410 lever action. I don't have one but I did consider getting one when they came out. Its still on the list though.
Rupe