Winchester 70 safety unsafe?

[Dbrewer]

Hi All,

I did a search on this topic and was a bit surprised it hadn't come up

Short version: Have any of you had issues with the wing safety coming off safe while shoulder carrying it during hunting?

More verbose version: I bought a model 70 super grade '06 and love it dearly. Shoots great, looks great, trigger is excellent, etc. I had zero complaints and nothing but big smiles using it at the range. Then I took it elk hunting. Up and down hills, through light brush, etc. with a light pack. Much of the time especially while working up steeper terrain I would shoulder carry it on the sling. I noted when checking my rifle at one point the wing safety had disengaged. Since the muzzle of the gun in shoulder carry is close to my head, this made me especially fearful. I unloaded the chamber and redoubled my efforts to protect it through the brush etc. I continued to repeatedly note the safety come off and once I looked back to see the bolt standing full open. I was nothing short of shocked. I've never experienced this issue with other kinds of safety designs. Again. Once aware of the issue I was being very mindful and it still was a big problem. So now the super grade gets its range time, but sadly no field time unless it's a stationary hunt.

 

[tmknecht]

Hello, and welcome to TheHighRoad!

Although I can't answer your question, there are many knowledgeable people here who can.

You're going to love this place, I guarantee it.

 

[Float Pilot]

The wing safety of the model 70 was basically taken from the M-98 Mauser and M-1903. They just turned the switch sideways so you could use a scope.

It locks the firing pin in place in the mid position and locks both the firing pin and bolt in the third position. Thus allowing the safe cycling of rounds from the magazine to the chamber and back out. It is also MUCH less likely to fire if dropped from a height as compared to the trigger block safeties on other designs.

HOWEVER. As you discovered, ANY safety can become mechanically disengaged while wandering around the high country with the rifle slung over your shoulder. Crawling through heavy brush, letting your pack ( or holstered pistol) rub against your rifle for hours on end will eventually let Murphy's Law visit you in a bad way. I even had a bolt open up once on a m98 Mauser and eject a live round after a little wrestling contest with a batch of thick alders.

I have had it happen with M-98s, M-700 trigger safeties while hunting and even my old M16A2 and later M-4 carbine that Uncle Sam issued me.

I no longer chamber a round while hiking around with a slung rifle.
I have seen too many folks shoot their hunting partners or darn near shoot themselves.
I can chamber a round fast enough and I would rather miss a shot at a moose than blow my own brains out.

I will chamber a round when I am final stalking and the rifle is in the port arms or ready advance position. But I down load immediately if I need to start hiking again.
Yes I might have one less round this way, but I am a rifleman and I do not need lots of shots to fill the freezer.

 

[jmr40]

No more likely to do so than any other type of safety. In fact I'd trust the Winchester or Ruger type safety in rough terrain over any other type. I normally carry with a round chambered, but if in any spot where there is any chance of this happening the gun is in my hands, not slung. If the terrain is so rough where there is any possibility of falling the chamber is unloaded. Been hunting in rough back country including many backpack hunts for 40 years. Never had my safety disengage unless I purposely did so. And a lot of those were with Winchester and Rugers.

 

[joed]

I have to ask why you had a round in the chamber while hiking. As Float Pilot stated chamber the round when you're ready to shoot.

Never put your faith in the safety if you can easily not chamber a round.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

First of all, with the rifle empty and cocked, engage the safety. Do you feel resistance?

The safety is designed to cam the striker back, lifting the bent off the sear -- if it didn't do that, pulling the trigger while on safe could allow the bent to move forward past the sear, and the rifle would fire when the safety was disengaged.

It sounds to me like your safety is not under tension -- which may mean it is not lifting the bent off the sear. I would take it to a competent smith or contact Winchester about it.

 

[bikemutt]

have to ask why you had a round in the chamber while hiking.

OP said he was hunting, not hiking. Animals have notoriously good hearing, even taking a rifle off safe may be heard. The concern about the safety's state appears well placed.

 

[Dbrewer]

Thanks for the responses. To your question Vern I can distinctly feel the crisp settings of the safe, unlocked and fire positions. I believe the safety is functioning as intended/designed, I just take issue with the laterally projecting wing which seems to be ripe for rubbing on things. Also, It does seem as though the wing design is tensioned to want to come off. A few moderate taps with your thumb will more than do the trick. I've never had this issue with a weatherby type safety or the classic trigger guard variety. A friend suggested perhaps a trigger group replacement that would include a trigger guard safety. A quick search didn't turn up any candidates but it's an interesting thought.

 

[EchoM70]

Lots of great advice already, and like has been stated if you're experiencing any problems with the safety do not hesitate to send it to Winchester or to a competent gunsmith.

Also always keep in mind, a safety is a mechanical device that can and will fail.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I've carried M-70 a lot of miles in rough terrain. Your safety SHOULD NOT be disengaging. I've never had one do it on a M-70 if it was in the full aft position. There is something wrong with your rifle. You need to get it fixed.

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

In fact I'd trust the Winchester or Ruger type safety in rough terrain over any other type.

I prefer Savage's 3-position tang safety. It'd be highly unlikely for it to get moved off safe and moving it all the way to the back locks the bolt closed.

 

[MCMXI]

This all sounds odd to me. I have two Winchester EWs and two Kimber Montana rifles, all with the wing type safety. If you have a scope on the rifle and the safety all the way to the rear I don't see how the safety can be moved forward by brush or similar. It's protected by the scope and bolt handle and the direction of the required force to move it simply doesn't lend itself to being moved by brush or branches. For it to happen once is odd, multiple times ... something's not right.

 

[Robert]

I too have carried my M70 in some very rough country and have never had the safety disengage. I'd have it looked at just to be safe.

 

[Ks5shooter]

This is why all my hunting guns are Ruger tang safety models.I love some of the newer Rugers but will not buy because of the three position safety(personal preference).I have conveyed this to Ruger on many occasions.

 

[Fremmer]

Heck, I've carried Remington rifles (gasp!!!) through heavy brush and never bad one disengage. Have it fixed by a gunsmith.

And you want to carry a round chambered so that you're ready. The big ones don't get big by waiting around for you to chamber a round.

 

[dogrunner]

OP: You sling that rifle on your right or left shoulder?

Reason I ask is that I've used my old model 70 for way over fifty years in some pretty rough conditions and not once had the safety migrate to the fire position, I do carry it with one in the chamber.

It occurs that a left shoulder carry would be conducive to accidentally moving the safety to the fire position......particularly if you were engaged in negotiating rough terrain. Don't think there's any doubt that the cause of it being off is body/clothing contact and that side carry would do it.

 

[itsa pain]

The wing safety of the model 70 was basically taken from the M-98 Mauser and M-1903. They just turned the switch sideways so you could use a scope.

It locks the firing pin in place in the mid position and locks both the firing pin and bolt in the third position. Thus allowing the safe cycling of rounds from the magazine to the chamber and back out. It is also MUCH less likely to fire if dropped from a height as compared to the trigger block safeties on other designs.

HOWEVER. As you discovered, ANY safety can become mechanically disengaged while wandering around the high country with the rifle slung over your shoulder. Crawling through heavy brush, letting your pack ( or holstered pistol) rub against your rifle for hours on end will eventually let Murphy's Law visit you in a bad way. I even had a bolt open up once on a m98 Mauser and eject a live round after a little wrestling contest with a batch of thick alders.

I have had it happen with M-98s, M-700 trigger safeties while hunting and even my old M16A2 and later M-4 carbine that Uncle Sam issued me.

I no longer chamber a round while hiking around with a slung rifle.
I have seen too many folks shoot their hunting partners or darn near shoot themselves.
I can chamber a round fast enough and I would rather miss a shot at a moose than blow my own brains out.

I will chamber a round when I am final stalking and the rifle is in the port arms or ready advance position. But I down load immediately if I need to start hiking again.
Yes I might have one less round this way, but I am a rifleman and I do not need lots of shots to fill the freezer.

I more people did not chamber a round in their carry pistols or use a revolver there would be less negative stories about guns going off in public. You do not see a need for one in the chamber and you might see a grizzly yet a guy that goes to walmart sees the need to have one in the chamber

 

[Steve in PA]

I've owned and carried a Win 70XTR .30/06 since the early 1980's and I cannot think of one instance where the safety disengaged.

 

[Davek1977]

I've hunted deer for 20 years with a Model 70 under all sorts of conditions and terrain, and have never had the safety disengage.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

This has got to be lack of spring tension. Engaging the safety cams the striker slightly backward against the pressure of the mainspring. I would definitely have a gunsmith check this one out.

 

[MCMXI]

This has got to be lack of spring tension.

I've got a Kimber firing pin assembly in pieces in front of me. I have the plunger, spring and ball bearing out of the cocking piece housing and just the safety lever inserted into the cocking piece housing (bolt shroud). With the safety in the rearward position, or the middle position, no matter how hard I push on the back of the cocking piece I can't get the safety to move to the off position. My point is that even with no spring, the energy stored in the firing pin spring isn't able to rotate the safety to the off position. The safety would still have to be pushed to the off position.

 

[rcmodel]

I agree totally.

The Model 70 Safety, since it was introduced in 1936, has never had a known problem with the safety being brushed off with clothing, brush, or anything else.

If it's working as designed?
And you aren't carrying it muzzle- up on your left side and wearing a big GI pistol belt or pack belt sticking way out snagging on it?

There is just no possible way it will get brushed off by accident.

1. There is something bad wrong with your safety, spring & plunger, or bolt shroud?
2. Or there is something bad wrong with the way you carry it.

rc

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

It's probably as good a safety that's ever been put on a bolt action rifle, but the best safety is between your ears.

 

[Savage99]

The M70 type safety will get pushed off of safe when carried over the shoulder on a sling with a backpack. This will happen with M70's, Kimbers and customs with Dakota type safeties.

There may be no certain cure. I keep the chamber empty now with backpack on.

 

[MCMXI]

The M70 type safety will get pushed off of safe when carried over the shoulder on a sling with a backpack.

Right hand action over right shoulder ... not likely.