Wonderful "Crude" Guns

[InkEd]

We all love our well-refined and precision made firearms. It is easy to see the beauty of those guns. However, we hardly ever talk about our favorite "crude" firearms. Those cheaply made (often with simple stamping), loose tolerance, hard on the eyes but yet still wonderfully effective guns that just have their own appeal. This thread is dedicated to the discussion of those ugly beauties.

Let's chat, post pics, share stories, et cetera about wonderful (in their own way) guns like MACs, Grease Guns, Stens, Liberators, MAT-49 and other similar weapons that look like they were made in a highschool metal shop.

(If it's more refined than the average AK then it doesn't belong on this thread.)

 

[Hoth206]

Not really along the lines of a grease gun, but I'm convinced that about 75% of the shooting that went on in this country before 1965 or so was done with pretty crude no-name brand single barrel shotguns.

I've got a 16 ga. sbl. that came from some distant relation (don't remember who...my dad may know) that doesn't have a name on it. It's loose and worn out, but it's still cool looking hanging on the wall. My guess is that it was probably the "family gun" for a couple of generations of ancestors, and I doubt they were the only folks who had one gun for everything.

They're pretty crude, but you can still buy a new one for around a hundred bucks, made in the USA, and they'll kill stuff just as dead as they have for around 200 years. Crude, but simple and effective.

 

[pikid89]

^ I killed my very first deer with slug out of my grandmas store brand .410
that gun started my addiction with all things guns lol

 

[Frozen North]

We can't forget the Mosin Nagant! You don't get much more crude and ugly than that!

I own several. They are soopah fun!

 

[ridgerunner1965]

my first rifle other than a 22 was a 45 kentucky kit built by a 12 yr old boy.me.sears kit with some type of cheap spanish barrel.it was really crude looking.it functioned fine and was very accurate tho.i spent many a day roaming the woods with it shooting small game.ive had and still have some sks rifles that were pretty crude looking but ran like a swiss watch and would hit a brick every time at 100 yrds.

 

[Equestrian]

the best are the ones with stories like the liberator that's what immediately came to me the grease guns are real neat too. wouldn't include the mosin though, i have two and there both pretty nice especially the one with my brand new finish job.

 

[talldragon]

I like this one. Simple, yet effective.

 

[InkEd]

I like the metal box o' death that is a MAC. Folded sheet metal and a heavy spring is all you need spray a ton of ammo quickly.

 

[AlexanderA]

The Greasegun may look crude, but the process of making it was the result of sophisticated industrial design. Unlike the Sten, you can't make a Greasegun in a home workshop.

 

[GRIZ22]

Not really along the lines of a grease gun, but I'm convinced that about 75% of the shooting that went on in this country before 1965 or so was done with pretty crude no-name brand single barrel shotguns.


Most people think of the Colt SAA or Henry or Winchester as the gun that won the West but it was actually the single barrel shotgun. Most settlers couldn't afford Colts and such, the single barrel was cheap, easy to hit with, and could be used for any purpose.

 

[InkEd]

The beauty IS the simplicity. Shotguns and "Bullet Hoses" use the "accuracy by volume" method to achieve their goal. Simple BUT effective.

 

[Doubting Thomas]

I like my 1962 vintage Sheridan Nocabout .22 single shot pistol. I believe they were $17.95 or so at the time. It looks like a junior sized electric drill, same trigger pull, and very fixed sights. It's a fun little plinker and surprisingly accurate once you get the hang of it.

It makes a pretty good little trainer; small, simple, and if you do your part it'll do.

 

[Balrog]

Most people think of the Colt SAA or Henry or Winchester as the gun that won the West but it was actually the single barrel shotgun. Most settlers couldn't afford Colts and such, the single barrel was cheap, easy to hit with, and could be used for any purpose.

Do you have a reference that would indicate that?

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

Crude isn't exactly what I would call it, but I think it fits the spirit of the thread.

My RG-40.




Despite being a $30 cast-zinc framed revolver, it has stood up to over 1000 rounds of mixed .38spl and +P, and I have even recently successfully fired off 10 rounds underwater.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Glocks. ()

Sterling SMGs. All the examples I've ever seen and used had the same oily light surface rust you see on old car parts, and there's that perceptible lag between trigger pull and the bolt going forward. One of the Sterlings we had in our arms room shot about a foot to the left at seven meters, and god only knows where it went at much further range. Would definitely win you a gun fight in a phone booth, though.

 

[Kiln]

Cobray single shot .410 derringer. I have heard that the double barrel versions are junk but these are extremely simple and all steel derringers. They kick like a beast, having the most uncomfortable recoil I've ever experienced but are effective and I'm sure would make great snake guns.



I've also got two RG 23 revolvers that have done fine so far and even have decent accuracy especially the one with the long barrel. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder though and to me they don't look half bad.

 

[BADUNAME37]

My WWII Arisaka 7.7 JAP is apparently one of the ones made about a year or so before the war ended. It is pretty crude in the machining, however, it shoots my handloads extremely well, in fact the fixed sights on it are exactly zeroed in at 100 yards! With the Hornady Spire bullets, I can shoot grapefruit-size rocks at 100 yards with ease!

I didn't even work up the load, I just looked at a bunch of different loads and went middle of the road with the Hornady #3120 .312" Spire Soft Point Bullets over IMR 4350 Powder. I took the gun to the range when no one was there, loaded it, tied a string to the trigger and stood back behind a post and pulled the string. The gun fired, the bullet hitting the berm behind where the targets go. I tried that five times then felt comfortable shooting it myself after that. That is when I realized this thing is right on at 100 yards!

The only negative thing is the oddball safety where one has to press the back of the bolt where there is a steel knob and press about 20 pounds pressure while turning that 'knob'. It makes for extremely loud metallic noise if one is trying to be quiet hunting deer. The trigger is rather hard to pull, so sometimes, if I hunt with it, I will not close the bolt handle until I am ready to sit and wait for my deer to come along, lowering the bolt handle so it is ready to fire.

 

[BADUNAME37]

Originally Posted by Kiln
Cobray single shot .410 derringer......They kick like a beast, having the most uncomfortable recoil I've ever experienced but are effective and I'm sure would make great snake guns.......Beauty is in the eye of the beholder though and to me they don't look half bad.

I really like the looks of that .410 Derringer.
It is totally Functional to the point where it is actually beautiful!

 

[Kiln]

I really like the looks of that .410 Derringer.
It is totally Functional to the point where it is actually beautiful!

Yeah I love the simplicity and so far the gun has been great, though I've only got about 35 rounds through it so far it has had only three failures that were due to cheap Remington ammo, there were always deep indentations on the primers and the rounds failed to fire after several strikes...the rounds were just no good.

Keep in mind that while I've always heard good things about the single shots I've heard that the double barrels often have problems with light strikes and firing pin problems due to the fact that you have to manually switch the firing pin between each barrel prior to firing, if you don't have them lined up perfectly the gun is unlikely to work properly. What would be a neat little pistol was bad due to a less than stellar design. With the single barrel this isn't an issue.

Best part is that these guns are super cheap and even cost less than the cheap zinc derringers that Cobra makes. Not badmouthing the Cobra guns but if you can get something thats all steel for a lower price the decision is simple for me.

 

[Ole Coot]

My first was an H&R 20ga single shot Topper, still have it and most people I knew when I was a kid had a single shot shotgun used for everything.

 

[InkEd]

While indeed not a handsome weapon, Glock pistols are not crude. The manufacturing process is quite high tech. You have to have high quality molding equipment for plastic, precision maching tools to produce alot of the small parts and assemble them to relatively tight tolerances. A military issue WWII era 1911 requires less "high tech" equipment to manufacture and has looser specifications. (DISCLAIMER: That does NOT make it a "better weapon.) Both are fine guns and you would be hard pressed to find a sensible person that thinks the 1911 is a "crudely" made firearm. Glocks. Ugly? Yes. Crude? No.

Kudos, to the member that mentioned the "last ditch" production runs
of WWII Japanese weapons. I have seen a few comparisions of the early and late production rifles. Very big difference in quality. SAME design. DIFFERENT quality. IMHO the Japanese had a BIG problem with accepting new weapons. (Except for machine guns which they had several designs.) Their rifles were a pretty old design even before the start of WWII. They possibly could have been better served by issuing a cheap SMG or auto rifle than by trying to continue making the Arisaka rifle. As the descedant of a Pacific Theater veteran, I am VERY glad they didn't though.

Anyway, I just thought of another one. How about the Australian Owen SMG? Any of you guys ever gotten to see/handle one? I have only seen them in pictures but the look like a tube with a magazine coming out of the top. Yet, they seem well liked by their users.

 

[InkEd]

I am surprised we haven't seen more communist guns mentioned. I would think they had to have some pretty rough small arms.

 

[keyboard commando]

Crude

Italian Carcano should get an honorable mention.

 

[Mp7]

French weapons ... while not compeltely crude, at least built drop-resistant.

 

[Kiln]

I am surprised we haven't seen more communist guns mentioned. I would think they had to have some pretty rough small arms.

Probably because there are too many to mention.

Lots of old commie weapons are extremely durable and tough but not too easy on the eyes. Doesn't bother alot of people though, myself included. Functionality beats beauty any day as far as I'm concerned...about firearms that is.