recommendations for anti-theft storage?

Presuming you're not going to be buy a bunch more guns


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stack-On-GC...curity-Safe-/301453479238?hash=item4630070d46

Depending on where you live a permit to carry might not be all that hard to get.

As to you question, look at one of the various quick access handgun vaults. If you can't do it yourself, find someone you trust to securely attach it to a frame member of your home. Or if you are on a cement slab, they can be attached to the cement in a manner that makes it very difficult to remove.

Hidden and well protected always.....

I also keep one handgun "at the ready" but, my other weapons
are always hidden, secured and out of sight. I also safely store my
ammo there. Many people now feel (correctly actually) the need to
store gold coins, important paperwork and firearms in hidden/secure
areas.
It's important that they still be readily available- if needed though. A
space as small as a medicine cabinet works well for some, while others
build much larger (or multiples of smaller ones too..)
This does not cost as much as you might think.
P

old lady new shooter said:

So, my 4" 686 Plus is ordered (yay!!!) and this being California I should have it in about two weeks. (The gun store has to receive it and then the 10-day waiting period starts.)

No children are ever in my house.

At night I plan to have it in a bed-buddy type setup (maybe not that exact brand).

Since concealed carry is not granted to regular people here, I need a way to lock it up when I'm not home.

Suggestions?

Click to expand...

What extent of protection do you want? Also, do you plan to lock other valuables up with this firearm? Do you want fire protection? And do you want fast-access? (i.e., the locking container has a mechanism on it that allows fast-access for self-defense use.)

As a general rule, if the locking container has walls that are measured in thin gauge, this is a lower security setup that provides minimal protection. It would take all of about 15 seconds to cut through a safe with 14 gauge armor, for example. You can increase the security that this type of product offers with layered security and correct installation, but at the end of the day this product is not going to provide much burglary protection if it is attacked.

If you want a fast-access option, I highly recommend the Fort Knox Pistol Box, or another locking box that uses this same mechanical Simplex lock. It is extremely reliable compared to the garbage electronic and biometric options heavily pushed at gun owners. An example of a lesser product would be the Stack On PDS-500...I can defeat this using a paperclip in all of 2 seconds. While even the Fort Knox Pistol Box provides only limited burglary protection, with the deeper welds, thicker steel, harder steel, and a more robust lock/boltwork, it will provide more protection (when properly bolted down) than most other products in this category. Security can be further increased by hiding this type of product given they can't steal something if they don't know its there.



It is also worth noting that the CA DOJ certifications should be approached with extreme caution. Do not assume that something that has their approval is worth anything. Many of the products they certify are unreliable and insecure, and the makers of these products often engage in very deceptive marketing to make their products appear far more capable than they are.

A large safe can become a large target....

I hate to beat the same old drum but, if they can't find them- they can't
steal them. In most homes there are multiple places to safely hide one's
valuables, weapons & ammo. It is also very possible to built these into a
readily accessible and fire resistant configuration.
They make some very attractive gun safes. Who are they made pretty for
anyway? There intended purpose is to secure your firearms- right? The cost
of a better quality safe is roughly the same as the cost of a hidden arms &
valuables area (in most homes...)
I'm not talking about a cheap unit of 14 gauge steel but, of a true gun safe
unit. I personally would rather not look a large box (no matter how pretty)
To each their own but, I like my weapons & valuables enough to hide and
secure them well.
P

old lady new shooter,

I have to agree with fellow THR member Partizanai from The People's Republic of Maryland, Slave State...even though I'm in the Free State of Colorado! ;-)

If they don't SEE it and can't FIND it, they can't STEAL it!

Simple...the KISS principle.

In your case, with just ONE handgun (and ammo for it, of course), your BEST bet is to find a very "unique" hiding place for it that most thieves -- who are EXPERTS at finding so-called "hiding places" -- wouldn't look.

Aside from simply hiding it, you could get a serious (meaning at a minimum, a Class B rated) steel security safe but you WOULD have to bolt it down to keep it from being moved. And have no tools laying around in your home or garage they could use to TRY to get into it -- or pry it from the mounting bolts. Or use your dolly/hand-truck to carry it off!

A Class B safe, as it uses thicker steel (and steel is expensive) will cost you at least $$$ but more likely close to $$$$. If you don't mind spending the money, however, then you could get a safe big enough for your 1 gun, some ammo, and maybe some small electronics, too -- camera, phone, laptop, plus important papers/documents -- so it wouldn't be ONLY for guns.

For personal example, I have a small Class B rated steel security safe right now (a "Cobalt S852C") for some of the small stuff I mention above, but only handguns will fit into it, no long guns. Still, it's better than some thief getting ALL my guns and smaller valuables/papers (especially with Identity Theft being a big deal nowadays).

But the good news is a Sturdy Safe (Model 2419, with thicker steel and HARDER to get into than my earlier $4K Liberty Presidential was!) is on its way to me and then I can secure my long guns, too. And if I want, I can bolt my smaller safe to it to make it even more cumbersome/heavier to move.

Yes, I have a separate floater/rider on my Renter's Insurance policy for my guns, but I PREFER not the have them stolen in the first place, mainly because a criminal will then have them -- and no good will come of that! So even though they're insured and I can go buy them all again, it's just the responsible thing to do: Lock them up.

Again though, in YOUR case, you may want to just HIDE the gun...

But if you have the budget and inclination, a small safe would do for your gun and other stuff. Perhaps one like the "Cobalt S838C" is plenty big for 1 handgun, some ammo, and small electronics/documents. See it here: https://www.totalsecuritystore.com/cobalt-s838c-heavy-duty-security-safe.

And being Class B rated, it's some serious steel some street-trash low-life will have get through...not so for most RSC "safes" (Residential Security Closets) out there (even the top-of-the-line $$$$ RSCs), or those small "Gun Vault" type handgun "safes" made of thin sheet metal.

BTW: the Ft. Knox Pistol Boxes are the best your can get for a car, steel-thickness-wise, and have FAST opening Simplex locks -- even without looking and even in total darkness. I have 2 of these in my car, bolted down!

Or go with BOTH security methods: (1) HIDE your gun and (2) get a safe for small electronics and your important papers/documents. The bad news is a safe says "steal me" even if it's EMPTY (how would they know it only has some bricks in it) and so focus on your safe...and maybe stop looking for your gun. But if your safe is "serious" and they can't get into it or move it, then your stuff IN it is still protected, and your gun, too, as the safe distracted them...at least it may have taken them too much time and they didn't want to risk staying longer working on it. But who knows, just a thought...

Whatever, that's why bolting it down it REQUIRED!

No...none of these Class B steel security safes have fire-protection, they are rated for burglary protection, not fire. And most so called "fire-rated safes" (just RSCs with sheet-rock liners) use way too thin metal -- one with fire protection AND Class B burglary would be very expensive. So I prefer to go for BURGLARY protection vs. FIRE. As for fire protection, there IS a way to have that with these steel security safes (which I do)...but as mentioned, MY main interest was not fire protection, it was burglary protection: I don't want my guns in the hands of criminals. In a fire, they'd burn up and I buy new ones, but at least no criminal gets them -- the fire did! ;-)

Still, the most cost-effective way to protect valuables is to HIDE them! But you really have to have a good place as most thieves KNOW exactly where most people "hide" things and they find them faster than you can say "Gone in 60 Seconds." Or faster! ;-)

Good luck...

P.S. Here is where I got my Cobalt S852C: https://www.totalsecuritystore.com/...t=2+1000+1005&start=49&ppp=12&sortby=priceasc

These guys (TotalSecurityStore) have the best pricing I've seen...and shipping is included (a big deal given how heavy these are). Whatever, DO NOT pay MSRP for one, as SOME stores will charge you! For example, one site charges $838.37 for the smaller Cobalt S838C. And for my Cobalt S852C ($647.99 @ TotalSecurityStore), they want $1001.02! And then probably SHIPPING on top of that! Outrageous!

Shop wisely...and buy from a reputable dealer only!

-- C

We also believe in distraction and multiple locations..

Cloudcroft-
Feel well blessed that you live in a free state. When I retire (close at
hand..) that is my plan as well..
P


We also believe in the distraction method and multiple locations as
well. By distraction I mean rather simply that we provide "time waist-
full distraction placements". We make them spend time, make noise
etc. on non productive activity.
As far as the multiple locations method, many chose to prioritize their
weapons/valuables placement. A "bug-out bag" is fine but, what if you
need to store gold coins or important paperwork as well?
The average home has many places to carefully, securely and safely hide
even long guns. I personally like the system of long term storage for some
items and short term (grab and go for it..) on others.
Criminals know the most likely locations already. Being creative and
thinking ahead might save ones firearms. valuables and most very
importantly- their family.
P

old lady new shooter said:

Los Angeles County.

Not clear why I would need the fast access type, no children are ever in my house, don't have a cleaning lady. ???

Understand about bolting to house.

Click to expand...

For my home defense gun it keeps all unauthorized hands off my weapon. It doesn't matter if we host a party, kids come over, or we are having some kind of repair or work done at the house.

At night, they are easy to leave open if you prefer. With the mechanical lock (Simplex style) you can pre-punch all or part of the code when you go to sleep. That will allow you to just punch the final button or two in your code, or if you pre-punched all just a turn of the knob. In the morning just a 1/4 turn counterclockwise resets the combination.

The addition of a decoy is also a good idea particlarly for the random break-in and grab what they can thief.

Get a cheap document lock box/safe such as from Sentry - roughly the size of a brief case but double the height.

Then half heartedly hide in in your bedroom closet with some misc junk in it.

Thief sees and grabs it thinking he has something valuable and it takes up at least one of his hands to carry stuff out.



Glen... I like your little safes and that you don't solely promote your product. Just a compliment.

Partizanai,

I used to live in a next-door Free State -- VA (Fairfax) -- but was born in MD (and had a summer place @ Coltons Point, MD)...but I guess it's changed a lot since then, and for the worse. Besides MD being anti-gun/repressive, there's also what's happened to Baltimore. Forgive me if I don't even visit MD (even though I'd like to). And my sister lives in DC...can't go there, either! :-(

Anyway, at my stage of life now (60s, and retired) I move about every 4 years...so the gun laws of any state under consideration are a BIG factor. For example, I like some condos in HI, but HI is one of THE most repressive states of all -- even makes CA look good if that's possible! It's sad that the Bill of Rights don't apply to ALL Americans regardless of which state they live in, but it clearly doesn't. Shame on the SCOTUS for allowing that all these decades.

BTW, here n the Free State of Colorado, I open-carry (OC, and no permit required) exclusively (everywhere in CO except in DENVER, which thinks it's special -- violates it's own State Constitution -- and doesn't allow OC there). I also OC when I visit NM. When I go to TX, however, I have to conceal-carry (CC) there. But at least I CAN carry. Would not feel comfortable living in a state where I could not. Okay, crossing HI off my list!

But back On-Topic...

As a renter, I suppose I could just hide my guns & ammo, but I have more than 1-2 guns (and ammo)...not to mention small electronics. So for me, I feel better with a safe. So all I can do is put my stuff into my "steal me" box, put enough stuff in it to make it several hundred pounds heavier (which I have & do) -- and hope for the best. In my life I've experienced an apartment burglary only once, so it's not likely to happen...but still, I prefer my stuff locked up.

As most apt. complexes have a maintenance staff, they could be in your apt at any time (who knows) so while they usually are good people, you never know, and can't have "stuff" laying around easily seen (even though it's none of their business what kind of personal property you have, I'd rather they, complete strangers, not even SEE it). So a safe (with an old blanket over it for "cover") tucked into a closet or corner and some storage boxes piled around it will have to do -- I'm not trying to hide it, just make it less noticeable to the occasional casual visitor (maintenance staff, mainly during our apt inspections held twice a year). And it does "do" for these kinds of "casual visitors" -- so there's little laying around to see or pick up. And when I go to visit family/friends in NM and TX, the stuff that IS laying around (stuff I use daily) goes into the safe while I'm gone. Sadly, can't get my desktop PC, HTPC, large-screen TV or huge espresso machine (and grinder) in the safe...but that's where insurance comes in, when it MUST be used. As for my tools/dollies/hand-truck -- which could be used to "access" & move my safe -- I store them separately in my detached garage. I COULD leave my heavy safe in said garage (it'd be way easier on me moving as regularly as I do) and store the tools in my apt., but then it'd be unattended out there 99.99% of the time as I LIVE in my apt, not my garage! So I prefer my safe(s) IN my apt..

If the stuff in my safe DOES get stolen -- or the whole safe (!) -- I'll just have to make an insurance claim...but at least I TRIED to protect my stuff, unlike MOST people who "hide" stuff in their closets and under their beds. Yeah...;-)

Additionally, when I move into an apt, I prefer a TOP floor apt (for several reasons), one of which is better security (no windows @ ground level)...and even though I have to get my heavy safe up 2 flights of stairs (I presently live on the 3rd-floor) it's only once moving in, and once moving out. Just twice -- no big deal as it's worth the effort. Were I to live in a ground floor apt., I certainly would have an alarm system installed, and one that is monitored, too. But I don't do that for top-floor units.

As for my "primary carry gun" (Tokarev TT-33) I OC when out & about, when I get home I put it away and change over to my smaller "secondary carry gun" (Beretta 3032 Tomcat), which is ON me at all times...so for sure, IT isn't just lying around!

So...which Free State are you considering after retirement? Presently, after my 4-years here in CO is done, I may or may not stay. If I move, I'm looking at OR and AZ next. Maybe even going back to VA. Who knows!

Regards...

We've got a couple of these: https://www.corporatetravelsafety.com/catalog/vehicle-security-lock-box.html

With the carrier securely mounted to in a car or truck, floor joist or wall stud, they're not only secure they're hard to walk off with.

danez71 said:

Glen... I like your little safes and that you don't solely promote your product. Just a compliment.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I appreciate both compliments!

Then there is hiding in plain sight:
http://www.premierguncabinet.com/p73-Hidden-Handgun-Mantel-Clock.html

Firearms security in a Slave State....

Cloudcraft-
I am not certain if VA would be a good choice. Northern Virginia
(all that abuts the beltway and borders DC) is no longer a place for
Conservatives, gun owners and in my mind Patriots.
The Liberal/Socialist cross contamination is extensive and growing. It's
also an expensive place to live and also has very high taxes (which include
Personal Property Tax)
Northern Virginia also has it's crime problems (as does Maryland) Most of
this crime comes from DC residents and those of close to the city areas.
In DC the only ones with firearms are the criminals......
P

Partizanai,

PM sent to you...

***************************
As for the clock hiding-place as posted above, the only thing I'd worry about is a thief taking the clock! Yes, sometimes they take everything...you might not believe the things low-life street-trash will steal -- if they'll take people's (used) toothbrushes, they'll take clocks! :-(

I guess that's where the saying "everything that isn't nailed-down" comes from.

Whatever, I hope the OP gives careful thought to how she'll be securing her one & only handgun as it'll be her ONLY gun.

Understand about anything not being nailed down..

Cloudcroft-
I agree with your premise concerning the clock. Where we live people will
steal virtually anything that is not securely nailed down. Living in a 55+
neighborhood seems to make criminals even more emboldened as well.
I guess that they see it as easy pickings?
What a hoot- if they knew who my neighbors (on either side are/were)
Nobody ever said that criminals are smart though.....
P

Walkalong,

That looks like a nice safe for the OP's 1 gun & ammo (and similar to the Cobalt S838C I mentioned earlier).

And it's "almost" Class B rated: It's 1/8" shy in thickness for the body of the safe, even though the door is right on @ 1/2" thick.

Still, if this is bolted down, there are no tools laying around to use, and the street-trash didn't bring any (which they usually avoid doing so they aren't caught with "burglary tools" to identify them as criminals, even though they're PROUD of what they do -- being thieves), then I think the OP's gun would be pretty "safe" in the GardAll! ;-)

The good news re: looking for a SMALL safe (if that's all one needs) is that a Class B rated safe (1/2" steel plate doors and 1/4" steel plate body/walls) is the MINIMUM safe to consider...since in the smaller sizes, even all that thick steel doesn't weigh too much for an owner to handle getting it into his/her house/apartment, even using a small low-weight-rated dolly. And even getting it up stairs would be doable. I'd avoid the much thinner metal used in "fire-rated" safes of this size (or even larger) as they are relatively easily opened. Go for a steel security safe (non-fire rated) instead of the other.

But of course, if a safe/RSC is easy for the owner to handle, even more so for street-trash -- so HIDING it somewhere or bolting it down is best.

Preferably, BOTH!

If you DO need fire-protection, put one of more of these "fire safes" inside a non-fire-rated but serious steel/burglary safe:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/SentrySafe-0-18-cu-ft-Fire-Safes-Chest-1200/203327430

...or find them @ many other places locally or online: Office supply stores, Staples, Office Depot, Lowes, and even Walmart/Target. They come in several different sizes and 2-3 colors. I use 6-7 of these smaller Sentry "fire-safes" in my larger safes (5'-6' tall models) stacked on top of each other, mainly to hold handguns, ammo and small electronics. Long guns are on the other side of the safe, and no, they don't have any fire-protection, but MOST of my stuff in there does...thanks for these small Sentry "fire-safes." Still, I just hope the Fire Department gets here quickly enough!

I have one of Sentry's larger "fire-safes" like this in my Cobalt S852C Class B safe:

http://www.amazon.com/SentrySafe-HD...=1442261396&sr=8-2&keywords=sentry+fire+safes

...with enough room still inside to lay some stuff on top and to one side of the Sentry. In it are important papers and a bunch of small stuff -- again, for fire-protection only since the Cobalt Class B safe provides the security.

NOTE: These "fire safes" are EASILY pried open with just a screwdriver -- they are NOT "security" safes (or even "safes" for that matter). But you're not buying them for security, you're buying them to put into a safe and THAT provides the security. So they're for fire-protection use only INSIDE another SECURE location, not stand-alone. So get a strong Class B steel safe (sans fire protection, unless you can afford both ratings) and then use these small Sentry "fire safes" inside. IMO you get the best value for your money" -- good security AND at least SOME fire-protection. And the smaller models have handles for easy carrying if you need to transport them (the larger "chest" types have no handles and need both hands to carry). ALL are heavy, due to their fire-protection material.

As for where in a given room to locate a safe/RSC, putting safe in a corner opposite the door hinges doesn't allow a thief to use pry-bars very well, especially the much more effective (leverage-wise) long ones. Meaning, if the safe's door swings out and to the right, putting it in the left-hand corner of a room is best as the wall will hinder pry-bar use. If the door swings open to the left, a right corner location is best.

And as mentioned above in other posts, if you can put it in a small closet -- or build an enclosure around it (home-owners only as renters can't do this) -- you force the thief to attack the door only -- it's strongest side.

Of course, all this has been said many times here in this (and other) forums...we're just repeating it once again! ;-)

Partizanai,

I said that about people stealing "anything not nailed down" because in one city I used to live in (El Paso, TX), criminals there would break into people's houses and steal "anything not nailed down" -- even their used toothbrushes were taken.

On another occasion, they broke into my GF's car and stole her small (and cheap -- not made of anything expensive) crucifix.

Go figure...

But nowadays, nothing is safe, just like nowhere is safe. Crime is everywhere, in the cities and even out in the country. Yet clueless people still say things like "That would never happen here" and when it does, they then say -- and usually on the TV news -- "I'm shocked: I never thought that would ever happen here."

Smarter people prepare anyway...

I agree. A B-rate safe or a B-rate safe with RSC certification is a good starting point for burglary protection, price permitting.

It is worth noting that B-rate and C-rate safes are relatively loose building specifications without any formal tests, where as RSC (Residential Security Container) is a formal certification issued by the UL for locking containers that meet, 1) minimum build guidelines and, 2) pass the RSC attack test. This can result in some crossover.

As there are no UL tests for B-rate or C-rate safes, the makers of some B-rate safes have chosen to have their B-rate safes tested for UL RSC certification. (And hypothetically, a maker could even have a C-rate safe tested for the RSC.) I am guessing they do this mainly for insurance and advertising purposes, but this illustrates how the potential burglary protection of RSCs can vary in some situations.

More or less, the consensus of a B-rate seems to most commonly be 1/2 inch steel at the door, 1/4 inch steel on the body, and a lock. A C-rate is 1 inch at the door, and 1/2 inch on the body. It is not unusual to see safes using two plates sandwiched between a concrete composite material. On the higher end B-rate and C-rate safes, it is not uncommon to see the use of the same A-36 steel mandated in construction specs for UL rated high-security safes. These safes are notably tough.

If I recall correctly, the bare minimum construction of a RSC is a 7 gauge armor plate at the door, a 12 gauge armor plate for the body, and a UL Group 2 lock. That equates to an armor of about .18 inches at the door, and .10 inches on the side. The actual RSC testing is a 5-minute, one-man attack using basic hand tools only, and is only targeting the front door (where the armor is thickest.) The sides of a base RSC are significantly more vulnerable than the already vulnerable door. If the safe has only a 12 gauge body, that is slightly thinner than the thickness of two pennies. A cordless grinder will defeat that armor in a few seconds, and a fire axe won't take all that much longer.

A B-rate safe has over twice the armor thickness as a base RSC, and it commonly uses a superior grade steel, superior welds, and superior boltwork. So a B-rate safe with a RSC certification is a night and day difference from a base RSC and that is why I agree with you that B-rate is really the entry point of safes when meaningful burglary protection is required. So if you find a B-rate safe that happens to have a RSC rating as well, I wouldn't let the RSC rating have any bearing one way or another. A well made B-rate safe, regardless of certifications, is a good choice IMO.

Look into becoming a "legal" resident of another county. While we are heading that way, they state still can't tell you where you have to live and vote.