Giving up RCBS Summit press

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stubbicatt

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I have owned several presses during my hand loading career. Few years back when it was first introduced, I just had to have a RCBS Summit press. I have been struggling with it ever since, trying to like it. But fact is, after all this time, I'm going back to an "O" style press, and going to sell the Summit. Maybe someone else will like it. It just has too many quirks and foibles for me, and at my age I no longer enjoy the struggle.

The Summit I have is the first generation version. It has two screws each side at the base and top which hold the base and linkage block to the large central ram. These screws come undone according to their own whims. So gotta keep them snug. The die carrier is just cramped and challenging to use when screwing dies in and out. Setup of FL sizing dies is not the same as standard "O" presses. One screws the die in to touch the shell holder then another ¾ of a turn. Of course I didn't know this when I bought the press and struggled immensely to figure this out. Here in the last 2 months I called RCBS and they informed me of this "trick" to get it to set back shoulders on bottleneck cases. This additional depth of the die is to accommodate the slop and tolerances in the linkage. The amount of effort you have to put into the handle when FL sizing is much more than other presses. There is no provision for priming, which alone is not enough for me to give up, as I knew that going in, but in conjunction with these other shortcomings, I have just said "enough."

Using it to seat bullets is a joy. The feel and all provided in this press during bullet seating is second to none. I had thought to keep it to use as a dedicated bullet seater, and I haven't dismissed this idea altogether just yet. I like that there is no linkage under the level of your loading bench to whack your knees on. The primer catcher is 100%, even if its capacity is limited. There is no tilting of the bench or table when you resize cases as the moment of leverage is linear rather than offset as is any "O" press I have used. It does have its merits, true enough. That's why I want to like it. But I just don't. :(

It pains me to face the reality that I just don't like using this press. I really wanted to like it. In the balance, the minuses exceed the plusses for me. Perhaps the second generation Summit with the 3 screws at the bottom and the top to hold things to the large central ram is better. I hope it is.
 
oops I had missed the part where you called them... sorry bought that. I always had good service dealing with them.
 
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So, which O press will get the nod?

I'm also a summit user, and I like it a lot, however it does have its own unique pros and cons for sure.

One thing that helps die setup is converting the press to use Hornady bushings. Much easier to snap in vs the cramped threading process
 
Perhaps I'm missing something, but used to be you threaded the die to touch the shell holder plus ¼ turn. Not ¾ turn. Right? Or is my memory failing me?

I had thought to get another Rock Chucker, but the more I look at it, the more I lean towards the Lee "breach lock" Classic Cast "O" press. Seems a good setup.
 
Have you considered a Forster Co-Ax press instead? I always thought of the Summit as an attempted competitor to the Co-Ax, with similarly excellent operational concepts, but lesser design & implementation (and cost, to be fair). Having used o-presses and the co-ax, there is no comparison, unless you load really long-action magnums, for which a Redding UltraMag is a good choice.

Andy
 
stubbicatt said:
I had thought to get another Rock Chucker, but the more I look at it, the more I lean towards the Lee "breach lock" Classic Cast "O" press. Seems a good setup.
Click to expand...
If you're looking at a Lee Press, I'd recommend you lool at the non-Breech Lock version.

You can add the Hornady Bushing adapter to it and have the same quick change feature, but more importantly, you'll have a much better spent primer handling system
 
Thanks for sharing, I've been considering adding one to my bench, maybe not now.

Besides, I already have 3 "O" frame presses mounted on my bench, adding another would be rather redundant and pointless. I currently use the Rock Chucker to resize bottle neck, the RS for resizing handgun brass, and the RS5 for priming (RCBS priming die), to seat bullets, and to use with the Lee powder thru die when charging handgun cases.

GS
 
BigJakeJ1s said:
Have you considered a Forster Co-Ax press instead? I always thought of the Summit as an attempted competitor to the Co-Ax, with similarly excellent operational concepts, but lesser design & implementation (and cost, to be fair). Having used o-presses and the co-ax, there is no comparison, unless you load really long-action magnums, for which a Redding UltraMag is a good choice.

Andy
Click to expand...
No. I haven't considered the Co-Ax. I had one many years ago. I found it just wouldn't load concentric rounds, and I really didn't like that "shell holder" gizmo that opened and closed to grip the case heads. Mostly, I don't like the way you have to use Forster lock rings. I know there are guys who like them, but I'm not one of them.

Thanks for the suggestion.

says 9mmepiphany, If you're looking at a Lee Press, I'd recommend you lool at the non-Breech Lock version.

You can add the Hornady Bushing adapter to it and have the same quick change feature, but more importantly, you'll have a much better spent primer handling system
Click to expand...

I had given it some thought, and the split pin in the bottom of the ram of the standard CC press has put me off some. I think I would prefer the one piece bottom pin and solid ram of the breach lock version. It isn't the quick change of dies that intrigues me, but the strength of the press that has me leaning towards the breach lock press. That and the spent primer tube on my CC turret press has a way of working loose without me being aware of it, and then the spent primer mess sort of going wherever it chooses. It seems to me that the tube is more likely to remain in place if it isn't reciprocating on the bottom of the ram. The breach lock looks to have the spent primer system sort of statically mounted to the left of the ram, so the tube doesn't go up and down with each stroke of the press.
 
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I called RCBS and they informed me of this "trick" to get it to set back shoulders on bottleneck cases.
Click to expand...

Then there are reloaders that assume the press overcame the case resistance to sizing when they do the “trick”.

F. Guffey
 
I'll trade you that Summit press for either my Breechlock Challenger press or my Pacific Reloader vintage cast iron "C" press :). To me it looks like the easiest way to screw dies in and out would be with the press arm fully down so the upper linkages would be out of the way and not shell holder to get in the way. After screwing it in most of the way, put the shellholder in and adjust for die depth.

I don't know why people don't simply adjust the die far below the touch point. There is no need to worry about cam over if the sizer die touches well before the bottom of the stroke. The important thing is that it touches the shell plate firmly.

As for the screws backing out, did you call RCBS about it? Maybe they have a retrofit with lock nuts or the like.
 
stubbicatt said:
That and the spent primer tube on my CC turret press has a way of working loose without me being aware of it, and then the spent primer mess sort of going wherever it chooses. It seems to me that the tube is more likely to remain in place if it isn't reciprocating on the bottom of the ram.
Click to expand...
A zip tie is your friend

The breach lock looks to have the spent primer system sort of statically mounted to the left of the ram, so the tube doesn't go up and down with each stroke of the press.
Click to expand...
Yup the tube doesn't move, but all the primers don't make it into the primer catcher either

the split pin in the bottom of the ram of the standard CC press has put me off some. I think I would prefer the one piece bottom pin and solid ram of the breach lock version. It isn't the quick change of dies that intrigues me, but the strength of the press that has me leaning towards the breach lock press.
Click to expand...
You do have to take your comfort zone into consideration, however...

...in regards to strength of the press, be aware that the Classic Cast SS:
1. Is the press Lee designated for use in reloading the .50 BMG
2. With modifications, on Youtube, to increase leverage, is used to form cases and bullets...without need to reinforce the frame
 
stubbicatt said:
Perhaps I'm missing something, but used to be you threaded the die to touch the shell holder plus ¼ turn. Not ¾ turn. Right? Or is my memory failing me?
Click to expand...

Stubbicatt, My apologies, you are correct that is a new "trick" from RCBS. For some reason I read 1/4 turn in your OP instead of 3/4. They state in their instructions 1/4 to 1/2 turn, not 3/4 turn of the die to remove the play in the linkage.
 
9mmepiphany said:
If you're looking at a Lee Press, I'd recommend you lool at the non-Breech Lock version.

You can add the Hornady Bushing adapter to it and have the same quick change feature, but more importantly, you'll have a much better spent primer handling system
Click to expand...

Exactly why I got rid of my Challenger press. Not only do some primers not make it down the tube, the primer residue would gum up the ram and require frequent cleaning/lubing. I got the Classic Turret to replace the Challenger, and I am very happy with that decision. I use the CT with a univeral decapper to process all my brass, and I've not had a problem with the residue (I use the straw trick) and I've had no problem with the outlet tube coming off.

I also have a Summit press. I can relate to some of the dislikes of the OP. I will add that it is a tiring press to use for large production, as the pivot point is high and requires long movements of my arm, even with the optional short lever. Where the O frame presses have a fairly balanced linkage (the ram goes up as the arm comes down, with the weights of each helping to balance each other) the Summit requires the operator to lift the weight of everything. This became very apparent when I used the Summit for decapping all my brass. Also, due to the linkage, I can't use my collet bullet puller with it.

I have not decided to get rid of the Summit, I still plan to start loading 308 and I want to compare the results between the Summit and the Classic Turret.
 
stubbicatt said:
F. Guffey. Please explain? I don't understand what you said?
Click to expand...
I'll take a crack at it. I believe he means if we just turn the die an extra 1/4 and call it good, how do we know the case shoulder was pushed back ("assume the press overcame the case resistance to sizing") if we don't check the location before and after.
 
Pretty much a size and test process, whether you use an RCBS Precision Mic or your gun's chamber. If it locks into battery every time it'll work.....you do want to stop before you set the shoulders back too far or your case life suffers.....

I like the Precision Mic ok, but it's not the only tool you can use. You can even make one out of 1/2" CPVC Pipe, capped at one end and slotted on the other. and you drop the case in, mark with a pencil the shoulder location on a case fired in your rifle.......then size the case and mark again.....then measure the setback. Pretty simple really.

As for the Summit Press, I like mine fine for what I bought it for. It wasn't intended to replace my RockChucker. So far I use it for depriming in mass and seating operations alongside the R.C., and that is a great time saver similar to what turret press owners enjoy, but a turret press is not open faced, nor is it compact enough for me to use at the range, or as a portable to give me something to do when the sun goes down at my cabin in Colorado next summer........IF I can climb out of the mires that take all my shooting/reloading time lately! I like the Summit, but not as an only press.

The only struggle I had with the press was the casting-to-ram-bolts loosening (blue Loctite fixed that),.....and of course the die adjustment problem between rock Chucker and Summit....handled fairly simply with machinist shims so I don't have to loosen lock nuts and readjust over and over.

I don't think I ever recommended the Summit as an "only" press......I prefer Rock Chuckers. But that open face is nice at times....and you don't have to buy an expensive unconventional Forster to have it.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stubbicatt
F. Guffey. Please explain? I don't understand what you said?
I'll take a crack at it. I believe he means if we just turn the die an extra 1/4 and call it good, how do we know the case shoulder was pushed back ("assume the press overcame the case resistance to sizing") if we don't check the location before and after.
Click to expand...


Stubbicatt, I do not use ‘tricks’, I use methods and techniques. If I adjust my die to full length size a case the die contacts the shell holder when the ram is raised. When the die contacts the shell holder there should not be a gap between the bottom of the die and top of the shell holder when sizing a case.

Of there is a gap between the die and shell holder the case had more resistance to sizing than the press can overcome. In the perfect world we would be using new and or once fired brass when sizing. Problem; when a case is fired and sized over and over the case’s ability to resist sizing increases.

Methods and techniques: When a case has more resistance to sizing than my press can overcome I use a better lube. I use a no-name lube for ‘tuff to size cases. A lube can cut down on the cases ability to resist sizing.

When I want to know when my press fails to size a case I measure the gap between the top of the shell holder and bottom of the die with a feeler gage. I can make it more difficult by removing the die with the size case before lowering the ram. My shell holders have a deck height of .125”. After removing the die with the sized case I measure the protruding case head from the bottom of the die. The case head protrusion should be .125” if the case was returned to minimum length/full length sized.

I have helped reloaders with problems with presses that failed to size cases. One reloader had a gap of .017” between the shell holder and bottom of the die. He gave the die an additional one turn after contact while using an A2 RCBS press. That is something no one else understands. The A2 is a cam over press, meaning he went beyond one complete turn after contact.

F. Guffey
 
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Mostly, I don't like the way you have to use Forster lock rings. I know there are guys who like them, but I'm not one of them.
Click to expand...

FYI, I use Hornady Lock rings with my co-ax. They work great, but you do need to orient the wrench flats fore and aft, to fully engage the slot in the press for them. Rotating the die w/lock ring is not a problem, since it does not affect die position as on other presses.

I prefer the split lock rings with cross-bolts, compared to regular rings with set screws.

We all have our preferences, finding and using what works best for ourselves.

Andy
 
My main objection with the summit is the fact that the linkages don't center on the top die carriage so that when sizing and seating, a good portion of the forces keeping the die straight are coming from the fit of the carriage to the shaft. In other words, it's pushing off center to the case.
 
Sold my summit last week, ordered a new Lee classic cast single with the money, and had 30$ in my pocket afterward.

It was a hard decision on what to replace it with, as I've wanted a co-ax and they were on sale, but in the end the Lee got the nod.
 
I had been saving my Summit press for when I get serious about reloading bottleneck rifle rounds.

I was working up some rifle rounds a couple of nights ago, resizing and decapping. I decided it was a good opportunity to compare the Summit with my Lee Classic Turret. I prefer the Lee. Wasn't what I expected. I think the force required might be close to the same, but the pivot point of the Lee is at the bottom of the press, and the Summit is at the top. The lower pivot point just made it easier for me in a sitting position. I knocked out 300 cases on the Lee in less time that it took 200 on the Summit, and my shoulder appreciated it.

So, I may be selling my Summit soon. :)
 
You can add the Hornady Bushing adapter to it and have the same quick change feature, but more importantly, you'll have a much better spent primer handling system
Click to expand...

I'm with 9mm on this one. I use a hose clamp to keep the hose attached to the bottom of the ram (and have it drop into a coffee can)
 
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