Saw an RCBS Summit Press today

[stubbicatt]

Yesterday the shellholder pedestal came loose also. I think whoever assembled my press forgot the final torque sequence or something. All of the capscrews holding the thing together were exceedingly loose, and the pedestal nut was also loose.

Unfortunately the pedestal nut required me to unmount the press to gain access to that nut. I snugged it up using purple loctite.

 

[GW Staar]

Stubbicat: Same thing on mine. Note to me for the picture review......suggest that folks line up the shell holder base (pedestal) with the primer ramp and tightening the nut good.....BEFORE mounting. Purple locktite? Guess I'm out of the loop....heard of red and blue. I didn't use locktite....guess we will see if I regret that.

Pete: I really haven't done much of anything to the press short of moving the washer to the left side of the top connecting shaft, using calipers to make the linkage bars parallel, and tightening bolts, in such a way as to reduce play, keep alignment, and still have a smooth throw. Of course that doesn't include my making a new primer catcher out of license plate aluminum to fit where I drilled through the bench face for a clear tubing primer drop, but that's an option some won't need or want....the existing primer catcher works...you just have to empty it once in a while.

You mentioned the castings you saw were not as well done as on the Redding presses. I can see that, especially where that top bow washer goes. The casting in the center is on the small side width-wise so there is more than ample room for it to fit (and be aligned) between the Top casting hinge...and where final adjustment (for me) to align well, it shows a way bigger reveal on the side opposite the bow washer. It reminds me of how well '60's era American cars were built, where the reveal around hood and trunks were wide and uneven.

On the other hand it makes alignment fairly easy (viva bow washers) without the expense of building tolerances to a gnat's eyebrow. Their machining of the castings in this area reinforces the idea that they had no intention of building this press to pass aircraft parts manufacturing quality and tolerances....however it works pretty damned well in spite of it. (in the review I'm preparing I will show pictures to illustrate this.)

 

[stubbicatt]

Stubbicat: Same thing on mine. Note to me for the picture review......suggest that folks line up the shell holder base (pedestal) with the primer ramp and tightening the nut good.....BEFORE mounting. Purple locktite? Guess I'm out of the loop....heard of red and blue. I didn't use locktite....guess we will see if I regret that.

LOL. GWStaar. I have red, blue, and purple loctite. I cannot find the blue loctite which I would have used if I could find where I put it. The red requires too much heat and is very strong, so that left me with purple, which is the lowest grip loctite. I too, might regret that...


ETA: Short video review here.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

GW, your comment about aligning things reminds me of our 68 IH truck. There was nothing on it you could not adjust to get it aligned but maybe the front window. Everything was bolted on so doors, hoods, hinges, bumpers and trim could be adjusted and fixed so it was just right. Worked great till the next time we took it off road and then out with the wrenches so we could aligned back up again.

Hopefully the Summit is a one step alignment.

So where do you stand on it today? Good, bad, indifferent?

 

[GW Staar]

ETA: Short video review here.

Well that's a good review! Obviously the author has had more time to devote to this new tool than I do.......I like his wooden Van bench.....now I need a van. One of the first things I mentioned in previous threads on the Summit is how simple it would be to make it transportable. But for me that's for another day. Right now I want to make it into an asset worthy to add to my existing bench.

His video demo's his custom shell holder riser. That's nifty since indeed the Rock Chucker seats a die deeper into the threads than the Summit by .050"-.060". To cross dies over you need to raise the riser on the Summit or Shim between the die ring and the top of the press threads on the R.C.

I planned to raise the riser also, but NOT that way....the guy's a machinist with skill as well as time...neither do I have. I would think that one could buy machinest arbor shims, and add them under the factory riser. I'm guessing on the ID of 1/2"....I will have to unmount the press one more time (glad I didn't locktite it afterall).

 

[GW Staar]

GW, your comment about aligning things reminds me of our 68 IH truck. There was nothing on it you could not adjust to get it aligned but maybe the front window. Everything was bolted on so doors, hoods, hinges, bumpers and trim could be adjusted and fixed so it was just right. Worked great till the next time we took it off road and then out with the wrenches so we could aligned back up again.

Hopefully the Summit is a one step alignment.

So where do you stand on it today? Good, bad, indifferent?

LOL! I like the truck comparison! Two things going for the press vs. the truck: Nyloc nuts, and no off road bouncing. Hopefully you are right about "one step alignment". (Nylocs will wear out with too much farting around with them.)

Boy you are putting the pressure on....and this has been a month from hell timewise. I now have to help my 93 year-old Dad get to bed every night, and he's getting weaker every day.....lately he can't get off the toilet by himself.....even his raised H.C. versions. I've been getting interrupted a lot day and night......but that's all right, making him a comfortable as possible is more important than my hobby time....don't think he has much time left.

Hope you read the Review Stubbicatt linked to: I'm that impressed, so far. But to be fair I haven't started churning out ammo yet. I just bought a case alignment tool and am learning to use it right....a few more days. I lost some time with my daughter coming to visit for a week, and also because my particular press not liking the washer on the right side. I think that is the result of buying too soon......geeze.....this is getting to be a bad habit.....I've NEVER been an early adopter!! First the new bench swager, now the Summit....this is not really a wise habit to get in to.

Give me a few more days......

 

[stubbicatt]

GWStaar, a "case alignment tool?" I haven't heard of that. Is it the same thing as a concentricity gage?

It may be premature to say, but I do not believe you will be able to raise that shell holder pedestal very much, as the threads exposed below the bottom casting onto which that thin nut is threaded can't be much more than .2" long. Any shims between the casting and that pedestal are going to compromise that fastener location.

Seems to me a shim on the die itself would be a better solution, whether for use on the RockChucker at home, or the Summit I'm not entirely clear.

For myself, I mounted the summit and my concentricity gage to a 2x12 for easy transport and installation. I must say that I appreciate the total lack of any torsional forces through the press and into the 2x12, as there is no levering of the table onto which I "C" clamp it, which itself expands the world of possibility as to surfaces on which it will successfully work to include even lightweight tables.

I have decided to buy the short handle at some point in the future as well.

I have yet to seat any bullets, I have only FL resized cases with it, and it is up to the task. I do run the MG fired brass into the die 3 times before extracting it to assure that the shoulders are properly set back to zero. Before I give an unqualified "two thumbs up" I will have to see how well the seating depth is maintained, and how precisely shoulders are set back on my match rifle fired brass, but I feel pretty positive about it.

 

[GW Staar]

Hell, I don't even need stress to forget a term....yes concentricity gauge.

.060 isn't that much. I think there's enough thread on mine. But yes you can buy larger dia. arbor shims to fit between the Dies and the Rock Chucker and do the same thing....but then you have to add the shims every time you change dies.

Jury's still out for me buying another handle.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I did watch the video which is why I keep on top of this thread. I have not bought the T7 yet and keep wondering. Overall it still is interesting, but I like my loading to be smooth and not stressed like the one I saw at the show.

Part of the reason I am holding off on the T7 is to see where you guys come down on the summit. If it were a reasonable solution I would go that route.

 

[stubbicatt]

GWStaar. How far did you thread in those grub screws in the back of the die carrier? I haven't touched mine.

I have noticed a thick line of grease in the groove in the ram in which they ride, and I wonder whether they should be set deeper?

 

[GW Staar]

Pete: Really sorry I haven't been able to finish this. Just when I think things are going to be smooth sailing for a few days and I can "play"...all hell breaks loose. It's my dear old Dad.....my siblings who could help me with him are all out of town for the 4th Holiday, and his body has chosen this time to break down some more. Been having to "nurse" him every 2 hours or so. Dealing with incontinence, excruciating pain from bone on bone hip and shoulder joints, and the side effects of powerful enough medication to deal with them.

All I can tell you is I'm pretty sure the Summit is going to work great for me, whether or not it will size and seat, holding run-out to .002" or less. I do think beating the Redding T7 at what it does best is not even remotely possible. That thing is the tank of turret presses, but I seriously doubt any turret is the equal of a Rock Chucker or Redding single (using good sizers & seaters) when it comes to run-out. Whether the Summit raises that bar, I don't know yet, but I doubt it's the equal to a good arbor press.

The review is going to take a while longer.

Stubbicatt: the alignment screws into the back of the ram are only for side to side alignment and therefore have to go in enough to align without too much friction and at the same time be in enough to limit side to side play. I screwed mine in maybe 1/8" shy of touching the back of the key....strictly arbitrary as long as you don't hit the back of the key anywhere in the stroke. That deep doesn't seem to cause any noticeable friction.

 

[stubbicatt]

Sorry about your dad, GWStaar.

FWIW, resizing 308 Lapua brass in Lee die sans decapper/expander assembly, I'm getting right at .001" runout on the neck. I haven't seated any bullets yet, so I cannot comment. Upon using a neck expander, the runout increases about 1/2 a thou.

It also took 1 1/4 turns in of the FL die to get proper shoulder setback. Neat thing is, that once you reach the point in the adjustment where you get the desired setback, it is quite consistent, and if you unthread the die a bit, you can make fine adjustments to the shoulder bump.

Truthfully what is disturbing to me is the amount of flex this press must have. Typical "O" frame presses you thread the die in to touch the shell holder, add maybe 1/4 turn and you are set. Not this one.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I am also sorry to hear about your dad GW. I understand completely.

Obviously take your time on the summit review. It appears as if mostly the 3 of us are talking about the press and others are just watching and reading. Lets just keep this thread alive and we can all learn together.

The video referenced above showed the summit mounted to a trailer hitch. That really intrigued me as it would work well for when I travel. I tend to have big blocks of dead time in the field which is where I could use such a press.

So, I am looking forward to the runout report. In the meantime I will continue to thing about the T7 and load rifle on my rockchucker.

 

[Elkins45]

Sorry about your dad GW. I lost mine a few years ago under similar circumstances so I know how you must be feeling.

I want to switch to a new press but I just hate the thought of having to readjust all of my rifle dies to the correct headspace all over again. The Summit would have to be a REALLY great press to make me go to all of that bother. Add me to the list of people who are interested in how this press proves itself.

 

[stubbicatt]

ETA: I retracted this posting which really panned on this press. See my posting below.

 

[stubbicatt]

Update: With the assistance of contributors on another forum, I have determined that while the press does have some flex, my issue is due to a rifle chamber which is shorter than the standard FL sizing dies I have available for it to resize brass. Please disregard my postings re: excessive flexing and excessive force required to resize my brass, as I have determined the real cause, and that cause is not the Summit. I feel bad for attributing these problems to the press when they were really the issue of too short a rifle chamber for the standard dies available.

I am keeping my Summit, and feel foolish for having misled you guys. I hope this posting clears things up.

Given that the Summit works as intended, and is smooth and doesn't hang over the edge of the table, I am revising my opinion to a two thumbs up.

Regards,
Stubb.

 

[HexHead]

Does it spill primers all over the floor when you try to empty the primer catcher like the Rock Chucker does? Is the Lyman Crusher II any better in this regard, or am I going to have to get a Redding with the tube? I have carpet in the room I reload in, and spilt primers are a concern for me.

 

[GW Staar]

Hmmm, mine only drops primers in a bucket.

I played with it before the mod and didn't find it difficult to empty.....but then a bull in a china shop might have trouble. Anyway...no worries now.



(before grinding to shape) A+B Epoxy and bent alum. license plate blank. Set my press at a angle for a reason....will explain in a minute. Still using clear plastic tubing from Linens & Things....love that stuff. This picture is a reminder to folks that tho from a distance a part I make might look like someone with machining talent made it......not so. A drill, vice, hammer, and grinder to this stage....round file & dremel and canned black auto-trim paint will finish it (and hide the flaws).

If I angle the press, I can sit directly in front of it and up close without the handle hitting me. Plus I can use the Rock Chucker next to it from the same seating position, at the same time....not to mention the Swager and Trim Mate too.

 

[nitroexpress]

It was nice. I can see the logic and it seems to be a nicely made unit at the NRA show today in Houston. It was interesting to handle and see all of the RCBS gear at once. The press is big, has a solid footprint, is tight and does not hang down below the bench.

BUT

I also walked by the Redding booth. When I compared the quality I got with a Redding T7 Turret press or the Redding 700 Ultramag press, I am sorry, the Summit press is not going to make it for me in the short term.

Since I have a conventional bench layout, the real advantage of the Summit being a surface mount concept is somewhat lost for me. Given my situation, the T7 will be the most likely next press unless I get an Ultramag to replace the Rockchucker.

I replaced my RC with an UltraMag, and several days later went back. The 2 presses are different, and the feature I want is the ability to feed shells from the side, UM is made differently, front feed by design. The UM is one heck of a press, major reform is a breeze, just not my main press. I recently bought a Summit, and that to is one heck of a press, and it shines for seating bullets, the feel is phenomenal. However it is a "B" to change dies and adjust them, no room for the fingers. I also have a T-Mag II and a #25 Redding, and IMO the RC is still a hard press to beat, as an overall press, because it doesn't do everything well, but it does a good job on just about everything. The compound toggle lever linkage is pretty hard to beat. Unfortunately, the design has a limited stroke. I look at the T-7, and it looks like a good one, design and features, and I may sell off a press or 2 and buy one.