How do we help California?

Federal legislation. Article I and the 14th Amendment both give Congress adequate authority...and the Voting Right Act sets precedent.

Specifically: Congress passes a law stating that certain specified states (CA, HI, MD, NY, NJ, MA, RI, CT, and IL), owing to their unsatisfactory record, are no longer permitted to regulate firearms, accessories, etc, without preapproval from the Federal courts. All existing laws are void, all laws are presumed unconstitutional until proven otherwise using strict scrutiny.

We're winning at the national level. It's time to use that strength.

I have no plan. I am just saying that "I am not one of the get out the vote people."

Whenever I see billboards saying "Get out the vote" I cringe because I know what happens: people with no clue look at a ballot and see an issue for the first time in their life, written in maybe five words, and think, "Yeah, free everything sounds good" and "Less crime sounds good" then vote.

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I completely agree, we have entirely to many uninformed people voting, and they're voting us down the tube. Unfortunately, nothing will be done about it until it's time to rename to the country.

BTW, Vern Humphrey, the Supreme Court has ruled that their is no individual right to vote.

Mike OTDP said:

Federal legislation. Article I and the 14th Amendment both give Congress adequate authority...and the Voting Right Act sets precedent.

Specifically: Congress passes a law stating that certain specified states (CA, HI, MD, NY, NJ, MA, RI, CT, and IL), owing to their unsatisfactory record, are no longer permitted to regulate firearms, accessories, etc, without preapproval from the Federal courts. All existing laws are void, all laws are presumed unconstitutional until proven otherwise using strict scrutiny.

We're winning at the national level. It's time to use that strength.

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Are you referring to something like the Voting Rights Act of 1965?



BTW, thank you for contributing to the thread instead of adding more cop-out garbage.

As to California, one of the problems is the number of signatures for a ballot referendum is tied to the number of votes cast in the last election, 5%, in most other States the number of signatures required is tied to the number of registered voters.

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California has the most progressive (historical definition, related to popular participation) government system of perhaps any state in the Union. Back around the turn of the century they began pursuing something much closer to direct democracy than was ever intended in this nation --one of those governmental laboratory things we kept states independent to explore. Sadly, it's fair to say it hasn't worked out. As you said, they've expanded the electorate and its direct input into the process to the point that there is a massive horde of yes-men cheering for whoever can come up with a catchy name or slogan. It's the very mob rule we've always been warned about. It will eventually crash out, expel its wealth/people elsewhere, and rebuild with more intelligent priorities (case in point, Detroit).

The real folly was allowing CA into the Union as such a large land-mass in the first place, but as with most of the antebellum additions, crooked politics and punitive intentions were driving the decision rather than careful planning for equal representation ("gee, this area has more farmable land than half the Eastern seaboard; you think maybe they'll end up larger than any other state before long?"). It's rather worrisome these debates are heating up again, since that was fundamentally the driver for the first Civil War (just need a few abusive economic measures intended to generate a recession in the South such as a tax on domestically-sourced oil being floated, and the ingredients are nearly identical)

Federal legislation. Article I and the 14th Amendment both give Congress adequate authority...and the Voting Right Act sets precedent.

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You do realize the exact same thinking underpins Assault Weapon Bans, right? I understand the desire for a Master Key Quick Fix for CA's problems, but take it from someone whose state is still fighting for the right to set its own election procedures* --imposing federal rule over a state's affairs this way is a dangerous and steep road.

TCB

*Okay, it's been like at least several decades since Texas had any kind of legitimately racist procedures to its voting practices. Yes, there was gerrymandering and finagling by the parties in power against those out of power --same as in every other state-- and yes, racial political trends were obviously taken into account in so doing --same as in every other state. But today, one of the largest, wealthiest, most modern & cosmopolitan states in this country has to go to federal court to defend simple stuff like district lines and registration periods and voter ID. Shamefully, the altruistic restrictions of the past are now used as a tool by federal Democrats to subvert strongly Republican Texan state government affairs (they literally interpret Republican success here as indicative of racial disenfranchisement). There was a fairly brief time and place for the federal intervention of the '60's, but it cannot be justly defended today (which is why a big chunk was struck down recently as unconstitutional) which means it could not be justly defended yesterday. Good intentions ended up subverting for an indeterminate time (i.e. "forever") very basic elements of state sovereignty. I'm not prepared to recommend we pursue the same methods just because I want our issue to 'win' quickly.

TCB

AZ wrote an amicus curiae (friend of the court) to the CA9 in regards to the Peruta case.

AZ has the foresight to see how a bad court decision could affect their state as a whole.


Why don't those in other states start pressuring your State and US Reps to support CA and the other anti 2A states?


Or, it that too much trouble for you?


Its a cop-out to claim you cant do anything.



The more you let it spread, the quicker you let it come to your state.

build a wall contain the infection / the state is cancer I do not buy the send money to their lawyers I CALL BS !!!
seems like its what can we do to help them ?
send money ?
What I do not see is they can start and help themselves ? this is BS
seems like that it is a Cali mindset what can you do for me, you owe me,
like said in so many posts above they will not l not change its the
Cali couture seems like they will not even agree to be proactive with voting ?
YOU CAN TAKE ALL THE WATER TO A HORSE BUT CAN NOT MAKE HIM DRINK !!
VOTE VOTE start Voting in better folks in the ground floor and County leaders
it will have an impact, start somewhere STAND UP AND FIGHT BACK dont
just say poor me send money I am calling BS

These are the kind of clowns we are up against here. There are soooo many bleeding heart liberal, UN-INFORMED, knee-jerkers. All bent on furthering their agenda and stuffing their pockets. No desire to do the will of the people. EDIT: And after today's event's, the clowns at the fed level may try going "california" on our nation. Welcome to our world.

vote with your feet and wallet. if you are in calif, leave. if you are not, don't go.


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bigpondonly said:

These are the kind of clowns we are up against here. There are soooo many bleeding heart liberal, UN-INFORMED, knee-jerkers. All bent on furthering their agenda and stuffing their pockets. No desire to do the will of the people. EDIT: And after today's event's, the clowns at the fed level may try going "california" on our nation. Welcome to our world.

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I linked the video to go with that picture and other proof that pro 2A Californian's are fighting.... then, an incoherent post just above yours comes along.

Some people are just he'll bent on mocking others making absurd suggestions, and sticking their head in a hole and pretend they're immune.

jstert said:

vote with your feet and wallet. if you are in calif, leave. if you are not, don't go.


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If you come to a conservative state then PLEASE do not vote for the same policies that destroyed California.

Stay and watch for a few years. You might see why the laws are the way they are and why the state is better for it.

I have no plan. I am just saying that "I am not one of the get out the vote people."

Whenever I see billboards saying "Get out the vote" I cringe because I know what happens: people with no clue look at a ballot and see an issue for the first time in their life, written in maybe five words, and think, "Yeah, free everything sounds good" and "Less crime sounds good" then vote.

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That is why we have to work to get the people who believe as we do to go to the polls.

Vern Humphrey said:

That is why we have to work to get the people who believe as we do to go to the polls.

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......and here lies the root of the problem in California. Those in Cali, who believe as we do, are in the minority(Just over 20% of Californians own guns). While gun owners are in a minority in most states, their numbers along with those neutral to gun ownership, add up to a majority. It don't in California.

......and here lies the root of the problem in California. Those in Cali, who believe as we do, are in the minority(Just over 20% of Californians own guns). While gun owners are in a minority in most states, their numbers along with those neutral to gun ownership, add up to a majority. It don't in California.

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Which is due to lack of WORK on the part of Conservatives in California.

Opinions for most people are not carved in stone. Let California Conservatives get to work and start recruiting and supporting true conservative candidates at every level. It will take a long time, but it's better than rolling over and playing dead.

seven more years to retirement! Then I'm out...

Vern Humphrey said:

Which is due to lack of WORK on the part of Conservatives in California.

Opinions for most people are not carved in stone. Let California Conservatives get to work and start recruiting and supporting true conservative candidates at every level. It will take a long time, but it's better than rolling over and playing dead.

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That kind of criticism could be applied your state and most states out there.

Because of the lack of WORK of all those other states, including you and yours, we lack a 'true conservative candidate' running for president.

What is YOUR excuse for not achieving.

Everyone has a right to their opinion EVERYONE danez71 all you do is tell everyone they are wrong and how unproductive their opinion is, YOUR OPINION is just that just another opinion no more no less,
We all have the right to say as we wish !!

JO JO said:

Everyone has a right to their opinion EVERYONE danez71 all you do is tell everyone they are wrong and how unproductive their opinion is,

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I have provided factual evidence that there are people in CA that are fighting.

If members that state otherwise don't like to be proven wrong and corrected, then perhaps they should stop posting things that are easily proven false.

JO JO said:

YOUR OPINION is just that just another opinion no more no less,

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My opinion is based on facts; some of those facts I have presented here in this thread.

Opinions based on demonstrable facts are worth more than opinions based on unsupported biases.

JO JO said:

We all have the right to say as we wish !!

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Not here you don't.

http://www.thehighroad.org/announcement.php?a=20

Everyone is welcome to participate, regardless of political affiliation, gender, religion, nationality, or stance on gun ownership. We aim to respect every point of view, as long as it is presented in a polite and factual manner. You only need to provide a name and a valid email address to participate. We do not sell that information to anyone

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(emphasis added)


And....

4. Spamming, trolling, flaming, and personal attacks are prohibited. You can disagree with other members, even vehemently, but it must be done in a well-mannered form. Attack the argument, not the arguer.

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Before you start claiming " Free Speech ",

The First Amendment is greatly respected here on The High Road, as are all other Amendments that the Second Amendment defends. However, The High Road is private property and requests that members adhere to all forum policies. It is a contract agreed to by all who become members of The High Road. Those who break forum rules cannot invoke censorship or freedom of speech - a contract broken is a contract broken. If you do not like the rules of conduct or the acceptable topics, seek out a new venue to frequent or start your own board.

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(emphasis added)



Attacking or disparaging an entire state with-out factual evidence doesn't fly with the above.



.

danez71 said:

I have provided factual evidence that there are people in CA that are fighting.



If members that state otherwise don't like to be proven wrong and corrected, then perhaps they should stop posting things that are easily proven false.











My opinion is based on facts; some of those facts I have presented here in this thread.



Opinions based on demonstrable facts are worth more than opinions based on unsupported biases.















Not here you don't.



http://www.thehighroad.org/announcement.php?a=20







(emphasis added)





And....













Before you start claiming " Free Speech ",











(emphasis added)







Attacking or disparaging an entire state with-out factual evidence doesn't fly with the above.







.

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With all due respect, the bulk of "low road" language in this thread can be found in your own posts. Referring to another's statement as "coming out of the wrong hole" and questioning folks character is not consistent with THR.

edit: just re-read your last post. I find it appalling that you'd use THR terms to try to support your position that everyone is not entitled to their own opinion

edit: just re-read your last post. I find it appalling that you'd use THR terms to try to support your position that everyone is not entitled to their own opinion

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Try rereading again.... I did not say that.

danez71 said:

Try rereading again.... I did not say that.

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sure reads that way when you highlight words like "facts"

danez71 said:

I have provided factual evidence that there are people in CA that are fighting.

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and I truly believe there are folks fighting......hard. But they are in the minority. Hard to win a battle when you are outnumbered. The mindset of most Californians is anti-gun, I don't need one and neither do you. Guns are evil and just get folks killed. We'd be better off without them....any of them. For every person moving out California because of that mindset, two more are moving in with that mindset. I'm not saying it's a lost cause, I'm saying it's an uphill battle for those folks that are fighting......and it's not their fault they are loosing.

buck460XVR said:

and I truly believe there are folks fighting......hard. But they are in the minority. Hard to win a battle when you are outnumbered. The mindset of most Californians is anti-gun, I don't need one and neither do you. Guns are evil and just get folks killed. We'd be better off without them....any of them. For every person moving out California because of that mindset, two more are moving in with that mindset. I'm not saying it's a lost cause, I'm saying it's an uphill battle for those folks that are fighting......and it's not their fault they are loosing.

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Right! Thank you... you get it!

Seriously... thank you.




The title of the thread is "How do we help California?"

The title is NOT "How do we mock California and all its citizens".

Jlr2267 said:

sure reads that way when you highlight words like "facts"

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THR made those, not me. I just happen to agree with it.

Which is due to lack of WORK on the part of Conservatives in California.

Opinions for most people are not carved in stone. Let California Conservatives get to work and start recruiting and supporting true conservative candidates at every level. It will take a long time, but it's better than rolling over and playing dead.

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No California politician is likely to lose an election for supporting a gun control bill.

Perhaps you may find this informative: http://www.cato.org/publications/po...s-how-political-ignorance-threatens-democracy

The American electorate does not have adequate knowledge for voters to control public policy. Scholars have long documented the limits of voter knowledge about the institutions and policies of the government. That ignorance is not a moral failing. The rational voter has little incentive to gain more knowledge about politics because his or her vote is unlikely to affect the outcome. Since gaining more knowledge offers few benefits and substantial costs, the average citizen remains ignorant, though rationally so. Some scholars have argued that citizens use “shortcuts” to gain enough knowledge to participate in self-government. The evidence does not support the “shortcut” argument.

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For most of California, guns are not a 'pocketbook issue'. They're really no issue at all, until we get something like San Bernardino or Orlando and the politicians and the media figures start to wave the bloody shirt and demand that Someone Must Do Something.

We can't get newspapers and broadcast media in the population centers to accept pro-gun advertising. They simply refuse the money.

I briefly thought that good, intelligent use of 'social media' might work for some of that audience; then we have recently seen Facebook censoring and Twitter censoring and Google link-promotion (or lack of same), so no, that avenue is closed to us too.

If you have a good idea on how to reach millions of voters without those channels, I'd really like to hear it.

That kind of criticism could be applied your state and most states out there.

Because of the lack of WORK of all those other states, including you and yours, we lack a 'true conservative candidate' running for president.

What is YOUR excuse for not achieving.

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This discussion is about STATE politics. And in Arkansas we have made a political revolution. We HAVE pro-gun majorities in both houses.

Now if California and a few other states would get off their butts and create pro-gun majorities in their states, we'd be much stronger at the national level.