Rolling the dice?

We'll see. "Gun control" and beyond, it's the proverbial bum's rush for complete takeover. They're absolutely going all in, trying to push it beyond the point of return with the election of Cankles. If that happens, the country will absolutely be past the threshold of turning back on many, many fronts. Pick a side. There are only two and each voter IS on one side or the other. There is no such thing as sitting it out.

Re: the 2A, the unfortunate thing is that so many of the 2A "supporters" are duped by the "common sense gun control measures" that the gun controllers are using for bait. The controllers claim they just want "universal" background checks, but fact is that the controllers WILL use that as a way to get a foot in the door towards massive government "control." I fear that too many 2A supporters are lagging behind in recognizing how the left's all-in tactics for takeover have morphed. It's absolutely by hook or by crook now, as evidenced by many things over the past few years.

I think it certainly could backfire on them. I haven't bothered to look at her comments, because I feel a socialist dictator is predictably dishonest about what their trying to do. But I have met liberals who are pro gun and do see that a person is the problem, not an inanimate object when it comes to gun violence.

I also find it very interesting how they skew the facts. I recently heard on NPR an interview with a gentleman who studies gun violence. He made a number of assertions based on manipulated stats, and when boiled down to his "point", basically said that if you own a gun, you are a lot more likely to die in gun violence. As we all know, numbers and stats can be manipulated to say most anything you want them to. However, he made it a point to say that mass shootings only account for 2% of gun deaths in this country, and the vast majority came from handgun violence.

I think the gun grabbing rabid liberals COULD ruin their own cause if they are too restrictive. As in anything, the loud mouthed minority are the ones making all the racket.

The one thing I find really interesting is that more so in this election than any other I can remember, people I talk to are pretty pissed about our options. NO one I know seems to want either candidate, because they both are nuts. (Their words, not mine.)

I wonder if this will be the election where a third major party begins growing in strength.

I'm wondering it the DNC's vocal gun control platform is really going to sell the way they think it will.

Perhaps this will backfire in their faces and prove to be a major set back for the anti cause.

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That's the BIG question this year. This election is turning out to be all about gun control. The issue will either win the Democrats the election, or lose them the election.

Obviously, for the Democrats to be pushing the issue so hard, they must have polling data that leads them in that direction. But polling on guns is notoriously fickle. A lot of the answers depend on the exact wording of the questions, and then people tend not to answer honestly (if they even answer at all).

On top of that, there's the "intensity gap." The pro-gun people tend to be passionately pro-gun, because they have a vested interest at stake (their guns). The anti-gunners, for the most part, don't have a personal stake. They're responding to emotional appeals. And for most of them, guns are not the single issue. They vote based on many issues. Gun owners, on the other hand, tend to concentrate on this one issue. Particularly this year, they're being forced to.

And the presidential election is not one election, but a series of state elections. As Michael Moore [!] has said, the "rust belt" states of Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, and Wisconsin are going to be in play this year, and guns will be a factor in all of them. (Blue-collar union workers are angry about their jobs being sent overseas, and they're worried about their guns being taken away.)

It's impossible to make predictions in this crazy year. But one thing is certain: if Hillary is elected, our guns will be under severe threat.

I think that the media playing up all of the recent violence is playing in the favor of the Democrats right now. Hopefully the violence will subside and the knee jerkers that are for gun control will find other topics to harp about. I think the anti gun stance is a losing battle though, especially with how states have been electing members of the senate and the house in the last 4-6 years.

Based on past practice.. I'm betting that their gun control message will be muted after their convention as we move towards November. They're very good at tailoring their message to suit the folks they're trying to attract and will downplay their true agenda until after they gain power.... Hope that simply doesn't happen at all.

November, it just can't come soon enough.... and I pray that folks that oppose the left can win. Our country will be in bad shape if they do....

The so-called progressives are still depending on the electorate being naïve and idealistic dreamers who believe that things such as no one having to worry and freedom from fear are rights for all Americans.

The Party is also fond of using "gun safety" or "gun reform" as a euphemism for abridging Second Amendment rights.

The Democrats are pandering to their anti-gun base. Yep, for 7.5 years I have heard the "Obama will take our guns" mantra. i still have my guns, all 200+ of them.

This country is not your run of the mill Mickey Mouse dictatorship that sends the army to collect guns. An anti-gun president cannot take our guns without the consent of the US congress.

This country is not your run of the mill Mickey Mouse dictatorship that sends the army to collect guns. An anti-gun president cannot take our guns without the consent of the US congress.

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To be fair, that possibility is never more than 4 years away.

That's the BIG question this year. This election is turning out to be all about gun control. The issue will either win the Democrats the election, or lose them the election.

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Of all of the things being yelled back and forth between the parties this year, I hear gun control mentioned only occasionally. I really don't think it will be in the top 5 of reasons people pull the lever one way or the other.

(Except of course, for us here.)

There are MUCH less important factors in play which will be "the reason" one party wins and one loses.

I think the Dems have gone "all in" because they don't think anyone who's voting for them cares enough about the issue to be put off by that stance -- and because they don't really think anyone in the nation actually views them as a pro-gun or gun neutral party anyway, so why keep pretending? They aren't going to reach the "middle ground" voters by a gentle-on-gun-control ploy so why bother? Just play to the die-hards on that plank and spend the strategy effort on more vote-winning things.

We're one Supreme Court justice away from the top of the mountain for gun controllers. The election will decide that one justice plus a couple more eventually. A Democrat in the White House will mean Supreme Court "discovering" that the 2A doesn't mean what the 2A means, much in the same way they've been "legislating" on other things recently. Consequently, enforceable executive orders out of the head Democrat will start the process along their end-game path. They don't really care if they do it next year or 20 years from now. They'll take what they can get because they know it's a cancer at this point.

Even worse, supreme court + control of both houses, + president would = game over. And that would go for a LOT of things, not just 2A. It's a new world order now that Obama has shown that the country is really more of a dictatorship if the would-be dictator has enough of the former checks-and-balances in his back pocket.

As I pointed out in another thread, Hillary could and would do things on guns that Obama would not do, such as declare that AR-15 rifles are "readily convertible" to fully automatic, and thus regulated by the NFA. The Republicans would need a veto-proof majority in both houses of Congress to negate this, something they are highly unlikely to have. Even the Supreme Court, with its current deadlocked makeup, would not step in, and if Hillary appoints another Justice, it would simply rubberstamp anything she did. (Even the Heller case laid the groundwork for going after "assault weapons.")

I think it's slowing dawning on people, even the Fudds, that a Hillary victory would be absolutely devastating for gun rights. The Democrats pushing this are making a huge mistake. We'll see.

This is the time they're waiting for. A lot of American's are fed up with guns. A few more shootings and enough may be lined up ready to turn them in themselves just to show how committed they are to the cause.

That's my biggest fear. Whittle down through various means the huge number of gun owners until those remaining are no longer a significant threat. This coming election is the great political battleground of our time. In so many ways nothing will be the same after it's over.

This is the time they're waiting for. A lot of American's are fed up with guns. A few more shootings and enough may be lined up ready to turn them in themselves just to show how committed they are to the cause.

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And yet sales are through the roof, membership in gun rights organizations is very high, things like open carry and concealed carry are seeming to ever advance, and the entire dialog on guns has shifted so INCREDIBLY far in our favor since 20 years ago that I just can't see a national sea change toward "fed up with guns" being realistic.

I think the D party has simply given up on the guns issue, in that they are holding a losing card there and they might as well pander to the base by being aggressive on it. Yeah, it's a loser, but a portion of their base loves it and they're hoping for wins on other issues.

You can't get much clearer than this as the central pillars of the problem:

“So many times, white — non-college-educated — white males have voted Republican.
They voted against their own economic interests because of guns, because of gays,
and because of God -- the three G’s"

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url]http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/27/nancy-pelosi-hillary-clinton-struggles-with-white-/[/url]

Ah yeeeessssss..... my Precious.
Your soul for a mess of pottage

We're one Supreme Court justice away from the top of the mountain for gun controllers.

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Not really.

SCOTUS seldom overturns a previous ruling. SCOTUS operates on the principle of stare decisis (let the decision stand).

According to the Supreme Court, stare decisis “promotes the evenhanded, predictable, and consistent development of legal principles, fosters reliance on judicial decisions, and contributes to the actual and perceived integrity of the judicial process.” In practice, the Supreme Court will usually defer to its previous decisions even if the soundness of the decision is in doubt. A benefit of this rigidity is that a court need not continuously reevaluate the legal underpinnings of past decisions and accepted doctrines. Moreover, proponents argue that the predictability afforded by the doctrine helps clarify constitutional rights for the public.

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https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/stare_decisis

This is the reason that Roe v. Wade remains the law of the land. Despite the passage of 43 years and sometimes majorities of "conservative" justices that law still stands.

I know one group that don't want Hillary in the White House, the Secret Service hate her.

Michelle stated in her speech... "I watch my Girls go to School in Armored SUVs, surrounded by big armed men?" Hullo, just like our kids yes? We can not even take our kids to school armed!

Sadly ,the Secret Service amounts to very few votes. However I believe Sam1911 is correct. Gun sales have been through the roof for all of Obama's tenure and every gun owner that I know is highly motivated to get out and vote against Clinton.

And watching and reading the news, gun control is barely in the top 5 issues. The economy, national defense and terrorist attacks by far lead the major issues in 2016.

Actually, Hitlery has kept her big mouth shut about confronting the "Gun Lobby".
Wonder why??
I hope that Americans vote to support the 2A Amendment!

Sam1911 said:

Of all of the things being yelled back and forth between the parties this year, I hear gun control mentioned only occasionally.

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You must not be watching the DNC much at all, if any.

It's been been brought up several times each night by her pitchmen/women.

Gaby Gifford spent 1/2 of her time talking about how Hillary is a strong and determined enough woman/mom to do it just last night.

Ohhh. 6:03 PT it was just mentioned again at the DNC as I type this.

And yet sales are through the roof, membership in gun rights organizations is very high, things like open carry and concealed carry are seeming to ever advance, and the entire dialog on guns has shifted so INCREDIBLY far in our favor since 20 years ago that I just can't see a national sea change toward "fed up with guns" being realistic

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Too bad sales numbers don't translate into public policy as evidenced by the draconian laws that keep getting passed in several states. Some of those states, like CO, had traditionally been conservative pro 2A states.


People don't care about the last 20 yrs when the go to the polls.

Even if you use Foxnews as the source, we've had well over a dozen mass shootings in the last 4 yrs. Then throw in cops getting shot recently and that like putting ice-cream on top of cake.

2015 and 2016 havent been good years for gun publicity in the least.

Walkalong said:

But they certainly tried to take all ARs, and in the end want them all, they just didn't have the votes.....this time.

And as posted, that can change in two to four years.

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This post right here is a very realistic assessment.

If the mass shooting's, domestic born terrorism, and cop killings continue at the pace they have been for the next 2 yrs and Hillary is in office, there will be another Fed AWB enacted in 4-6 yrs. And there won't be a SCOTUS that will help.

alsaqr said:

The Democrats are pandering to their anti-gun base. Yep, for 7.5 years I have heard the "Obama will take our guns" mantra. i still have my guns, all 200+ of them.



This country is not your run of the mill Mickey Mouse dictatorship that sends the army to collect guns. An anti-gun president cannot take our guns without the consent of the US congress.

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Are you serious? You haven't seen the attempts at banning firearms?