Where do you rank the 38 snubby as far as a defensive weapon

This thread inspired me to experiment a bit with my 642 regarding carry.

In the upcoming cooler months, I'll most likely switch to a compact polymer gun like a Glock 19 or FNS. I still plan on carrying my LCR as a back up to that pistol or as a gun to tote around on a walk or what have you.
The Pico is my gun for when I cannot dress around a gun year round.

However, I rather like the idea of the lightweight but handy 642 stuffed away in my messenger bag. I generally carry my work into my office in a small day pack ballistic nylon messenger bag. I have a pocket right on the side that isn't used for much, but it's just big enough that the .38 can ride in there in a pocket holster. It doesn't take up any extra space, it weighs next to nothing, the gun is made from a pretty durable list of materials, and it doesn't cost a great deal of money if it gets scuffed up riding around in the bag.

While I would rather have a larger pistol on hand, having a potent 5 shooter a brief zipper away may not be a bad thing. I've always got that bag on me or near me. Might make for a handy back up that I can stash away and "forget" until I need it.

I used to carry a 2" Smith 36 in a pocket holster, when I thought the worst threat was a meth head in the parking lot.

Then people started suffering from "sudden jihad syndrome" and the Chief's Special started looking inadequate to the task.

I've since switched alternately to a Glock 19 in a tuckable IWB, or a 3 1/2" Citadel M1911 in a tuckable IWB.

The threat has changed and I've changed with it.

Deanimator said:

I used to carry a 2" Smith 36 in a pocket holster, when I thought the worst threat was a meth head in the parking lot.

Then people started suffering from "sudden jihad syndrome" and the Chief's Special started looking inadequate to the task.

I've since switched alternately to a Glock 19 in a tuckable IWB, or a 3 1/2" Citadel M1911 in a tuckable IWB.

The threat has changed and I've changed with it.

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It's funny you mention going from a snub nose to a Glock 19. I recently did that exact same thing.

I have often felt very well armed with a pocket .380 or a snubby. For the threat level around here, they both seemed to be adequate and comfortable enough to keep on my person. Now that there have been a couple of lone wolf/copy cat national tragedies, I am rethinking my carry options.

I never liked Glocks, but the 19 actually balances well in hand, and by installing a NY1 trigger, I got to keep my revolver-like feel.

The snubbies and the pocket .380 will still find pocket carry, but most days out in public or out of town the Glock is getting holstered.

A properly loaded .38 with a good hollow point will do the job and do it well. Yes there are other choices but I can shoot with my snubs just fine. I have used some of them in classes and had no issues keeping up with people with autos, just because I've chosen the revolver as my main platform since I was a cub just like many of you here. It's not a great first weapon to start with but if you are proficient with your snubby I see no situation short of an invasion in which you be undergunned. Remember Bernie Goetz used a Smith snub to subdue 4 attackers and this was over 35 years ago, I don't believe humans have gotten tougher since then in fact I think the opposite is true nowadays.

Barry the Bear said:

Remember Bernie Goetz used a Smith snub to subdue 4 attackers and this was over 35 years ago, I don't believe humans have gotten tougher since then in fact I think the opposite is true nowadays.

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But their motivations and armament have changed drastically.

The clowns who attacked Goetz didn't WANT to die, probably didn't WANT specifically to KILL him, nor were they especially well armed.

Since I have not the slightest intention of running away, I might as well give myself a better chance of prevailing.

Hence my choice of a Glock 19 or 3 1/2" M1911.

zdg

Deanimator said:

But their motivations and armament have changed drastically.

The clowns who attacked Goetz didn't WANT to die, probably didn't WANT specifically to KILL him, nor were they especially well armed.

Since I have not the slightest intention of running away, I might as well give myself a better chance of prevailing.

Hence my choice of a Glock 19 or 3 1/2" M1911.

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Most criminals are not running out with AKs and body armor. This is not reality it is a fallacy of the new tactical school of thought. Carry what ever you will but don't think for a second a snub revolver is so inefficient.

A 32 H&R Magnum J frame revolver gives you 6 shots in the same size as a 5 shot 38.

I often carry my S&W 431PD. A 14 oz 32 H&R Magnum J frame six shot.

The 32 H&R Magnum is somewhere between a 38 standard pressure and a 38+P in muzzle energy. A little higher velocity and lower bullet weight.

Or you can get a 327 Federal snub and approach a 357 Magnum -- in muzzle energy, recoil, muzzle flash, and noise.

On board with ya cal44mag, only difference is I carry the Ruger LCR 327

Mark 40 said:

On board with ya cal44mag, only difference is I carry the Ruger LCR 327

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Not to derail the thread but how is that gun? My wife is a big fan of her sp101 in .327 but she wants a lighter gun in that caliber.

It's not really rational for a person to say the threat level is jihadistS. The most attackers in any US attack has been two. In one of those two specific incidents the 2nd attacker was a woman. If you can't pop two teenagers p, or a husband and a wife with 10 rounds of 38 +p you are not going to save civilization with your wonder nine. In none of these incidents was any victim armed. There is no logical basis to propose a 642 is a liabilty to your personal safety. A 158 lswc or hp at even moderate levels is a lot of sidearm. We need to stop the posturing and get serious and responsible. A glock is probably a better service arm in a proper holster, but not many of us are LE or open carrying. A civilian is more likely to toss it in a briefcase, purse, drawer, glovebox, golf bag, etc. as they traverse many different scenarios in daily life.

The most attackers in any US attack has been two.

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That is just not correct. I posted this in post #108 but I am reposting it so you can read it. Four muggers against one man armed with a Smith & Wesson model 38 in 38 special. And I would bet he was loaded with 158gr round nose lead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_N...ng#Perpetrator

My uncle, a Ft Worth cop worked a case where 5 men attacked a guy from the north east down in Tx for a vacation. They wanted the motorcycle he was riding. They took him out and each one took a turn shooting him with a 12ga shotgun. That way nobody could tell. They were caught because they were riding his motorcycle around. Stupid.

When he moved to the D.A.s office he was one of the main investigators in the Karen Koslow murder. A step daughter talked 3-4 male friends into breaking in to the parents home and trying to beat the husband and wife to death. They killed the wife and gravely injured the husband. This case was covered by one of the TV crime shows and my uncle can be seen at the house when they are bringing the womans body out.

There are lots of cases of multiple attackers on the streets and in home invasions. So never say never.

Ratshooter said:

That is just not correct. I posted this in post #108 but I am reposting it so you can read it. Four muggers against one man armed with a Smith & Wesson model 38 in 38 special. And I would bet he was loaded with 158gr round nose lead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_N...ng#Perpetrator

My uncle, a Ft Worth cop worked a case where 5 men attacked a guy from the north east down in Tx for a vacation. They wanted the motorcycle he was riding. They took him out and each one took a turn shooting him with a 12ga shotgun. That way nobody could tell. They were caught because they were riding his motorcycle around. Stupid.

When he moved to the D.A.s office he was one of the main investigators in the Karen Koslow murder. A step daughter talked 3-4 male friends into breaking in to the parents home and trying to beat the husband and wife to death. They killed the wife and gravely injured the husband. This case was covered by one of the TV crime shows and my uncle can be seen at the house when they are bringing the womans body out.

There are lots of cases of multiple attackers on the streets and in home invasions. So never say never.

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I guess the political season has gotten to you and made you think it is acceptable for you take a comment out of context and say it isn't true. Good luck to you.

I guess the political season has gotten to you and made you think it is acceptable for you take a comment out of context and say it isn't true. Good luck to you.

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What in the world are you talking about? And I don't follow politics by the way. I think they each and everyone of them are a pack of losers and I don't waste my time on them.

And if you are talking about terrorist attacks there was an attack in 2001 on 9/11 that involved a hell of a lot more than two people.

If you think a snub with 5 or 6 shots isn't enough, you can always add second snub.

Two s&w air weight snubs add up to less than 30 oz.

Ratshooter said:

What in the world are you talking about? And I don't follow politics by the way. I think they each and everyone of them are a pack of losers and I don't waste my time on them.

And if you are talking about terrorist attacks there was an attack in 2001 on 9/11 that involved a hell of a lot more than two people.

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Now shift the context to 9/11? Where they were on planes?? Really??? And you are taking any pistol on a plane?!

As I said, and I will repeat, it is not really a rational argument that a 5 shot 38 is no longer good Enough because of the jihadistS threat level. This is an argument that was proposed and what I commented About.

There may be other arguments, but this is just not one of them.

You took my comment completely out of context and said it was not correct, which I associate with the tactics of politicians. My comment is correct in the context it was given, which was rather obvious.

I still am not sure what you are saying styles. But if you read my earlier post I am a fan of the 5 shot 38 revolver and just last week bought a new to me model 637 snubby. I feel armed well enough for my purposes with a 5 shot snub.

I've overstated the difficulty of shooting the snub. Taking into consideration the close ranges where SD in employed it is easy enough to maintain your skills with a monthly range trip once you've learned how to shoot the lil' things. Jim Cirillo packed one and while many things re arms and ammunition have changed since the 1970's you can't argue that the .38 snub isn't a successful man-stopper where small size, reliability, concealment and in your face close proximity are requisites.

"If you think a snub with 5 or 6 shots isn't enough, you can always add second snub.

Two s&w air weight snubs add up to less than 30 oz."
Or an HKS speed loader(10shots total) or two (15 shots total)

John I have never found the snub to be that hard to shoot. But I also practice my mine and do lots of dry fire drills. It seems like a lot of folks talk about the snub being hard to shoot accurately past 15 yards or so. And they are. The small grips and short sight radius are against you. But that doesn't mean they will not group. Besides that was not their intended purpose.

Up close and personal where sights don't matter and the short barrel is an asset to keep the gun from being snatched from your grip. Those were points made in the book The Snubby Revolver I linked to earlier. Its a pupose built gun and used as designed its at the top of the game.

Posted by JohnKSa

The stages could be limited to 5 rounds to avoid the need to reload so that the only variable would be "shootability".

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About a year ago at our local club, we had a bug match. Nothing super serious, just a good old bring what most people really carry match. Guns had to have a 3.5 inch or shorter barrel. No magazine limits. It was pretty much a full on uspsa type match with pepper poppers, movers, swingers and falling targets. Stages had between 15 and 25 shots in them. The major difference was all stages were 5 round friendly. Shoot 5 rounds, move, shoot 5 rounds, move.

The results, out of a field of 17 shooters, first place Colt defender, second place Glock 26, third place.....wait for it.....Taurus 85 reloaded with Safariland comp 1 speedloaders.

The main reason it is near impossible to shoot a snubby in a match isn't that it isn't shootable, it is that most stages are designed around either 6 or 8 shot stations before you move to the next shooting position. As a result every reload with a snubby will be a standing reload, no chances to reload while on the move to your next shooting position. Plus you get the mental gymnastics of having everything designed for an even number of shots between moves, while you are shooting a gun that holds 5, so, much harder to keep track of where you are in the course of fire.

Want proof, take your single stack 1911, start the match with one in the pipe and four in the magazine, put 5 rounds in each of your spare mags and get back to me on how your times look at the end of the match. I predict, "not good". I also predict you are going to be a little frustrated when it is over as well.

Mind you, i'm not saying a snubby is as capable or less capable than say a Glock 26. I'm just saying that shooting a snubby in a match is in no way a fair measure of its capability in the real world.

Barry the Bear said:

Not to derail the thread but how is that gun? My wife is a big fan of her sp101 in .327 but she wants a lighter gun in that caliber.

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PM sent

It's clear from reading so many of these threads that those who believe a threat can be dealt with in 5 shots are happy with their choice of a compact revolver and those that don't have moved on to a magazine fed of greater capacity.
As is typical with this forum, there is little compromise in opinion and while the stakes are high there is but a handful of us that have had our theory tested.
Baring legal limitations I can't see why one would limit themselves.

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I carry a Smith and Wesson Chiefs Special, except mine is a CS9 with 7 in the mag and 1 in the chamber, plus a spare mag, loaded with Federal 124 gr. HSC 9MM. I have a Smith model 36, too, but prefer the other one since I shoot it much better.