Don't Think I Was Out Of Line But I Pissed The Guy Off.

I think you are reading too much into it.

Perhaps, the way you looked at him offended him. Who knows?

I can only say it appears you need to work on being "smooove." If you're halting and waiting for someone to pass out of your line of sight was so obvious that you actually ticked him off, and you've actually done this TWICE???, yeah you've got to be more low key.

Of course as with a lot of your questions about social situations, we can't really know what this all looked like, objectively, because we only have your couple-sentence accounts of the scenes to go by. If we were standing there invisibly watching we all may think you acted like a suspicious weirdo giving passers-by the hairy eyeball. Or we may see you were a ray of sunshine standing there like a cross between Mr. Rogers and Mrs. Butterworth, all maple syrup sweetness and good neighbor friendship, and these two dudes were just unreasonable jerks.

But since this seems to have happened twice, where you got under the skin of folks who obviously didn't mean you any harm, the odds are stacking up to indicate that you're telegraphing something seriously unpleasant the way you're doing what you're doing.

Smooth, man, smooth. Be casual. Stopping short and keeping your eyes on someone who's just passing by sure can look challenging and suspicious, or even intimidating.

"I've got my eyes on you!" "I won't turn my back when you're near!" If you said either of those things out loud, that'd be MIGHTY unfriendly behavior. But you can say them very plainly without words, just by how you act.

Figure out how not to put yourself at disadvantages by getting too close to people or turning your back on seriously unknown situations, but without drawing attention to that fact. A little play-acting works wonders. That little bit of pantomime, "whoops, I think i forgot my keys!" routine covers a sudden stop well. A quick pat and glance at your pockets as if to say, "Shucks, did I leave my phone in the car again?" gives a visual cue that completely covers why you didn't walk near that guy who seems to be loitering near your doorway.

Even "receiving" a fake cell phone call can be a great dodge as you can seem distracted and certainly not negatively focused on the other guy while stopping and standing quietly with your phone against your ear as you surreptitiously observe or wait for the other guy to move while seeming to be listening to your call. Even if you're casually staring right at him while you "talk" the phone excuses that as everyone spaces out and stares randomly while on the phone.

You must have some idea of this as you mentioned discussing the road conditions with one of the guys you annoyed. That's a good way to go sometimes. If the situation seems to invite it, speaking to someone, meeting their eyes and smiling, can be a good "feeler" for what they're up to while also distracting from the fact that you just slowed your pace, changed direction, or otherwise avoided being vulnerably close to them.

Think SMOOOTH.

Yeah. Stopping what you're doing, turning around and facing someone, and looking at them while waiting for them to leave is pretty confrontational. It would be harder to more obviously say "You're making me uncomfortable!" if you were wearing a t-shirt that said "You're making me uncomfortable!" If someone tells you flat out that they are suspicious of you, does that make you feel positive toward them? Of course not.

How about pausing putting stuff in the car and simply walk around the other side for a moment as though you might want to put some stuff in the opposite door, putting the car between you and him while he passes? You don't have to look at him, or even let it be obvious that you noticed him at all. You're just a guy with stuff to put in the car, and you want to put some of it in the passenger seat.

In the other case, how about not continuing to your car then, right that second, but do something else besides stand stock still and watch the guy? You're just a guy who "forgot his keys" or "took a cell call", not some guy surveiling a passing threat.


Most of the time I think these things come naturally, as most of us instinctively avoid putting other people on the defensive. But if it takes a little conscious effort on your part, so be it.

There's some guys out there who you'd REALLY rather don't take any notice of you at all, and giving them a non-verbal "challenge" like this may be a terrible mistake.

Wow, no wonder I bailed out of society and moved to the hills. I look at the whole issue from the other side, if you're so insecure that you get offended when somebody watches you then maybe you have a problem, why should the other party be considered the bad guy? Invading space? Well maybe they should grow a pair and just ask, "Is there something I can do for you?" rather than just assume that this is something to get violent over. If we were back in the old days I guess there would be a lot of old guys getting their butts kicked because that's what the old guys did, sit around the local store and watch people as they went by.

Trunk Monkey said:

Ok first I need to lay out the scene. I live in an apartment complex. My building butts up against the next building in a L actually more a backwards L.

I had to run back to work last night (09/02) to return a key I accidentally brought home. I walked out of my building (the upright of the L) just as someone came around the corner of the next building. Since I didn't know the guy I just stopped on the steps and kept an eye on him until he walked around the corner of my building then I got in my car and left.

I wasn't rude, I didn't blade up on the guy, I said good evening, I wasn't a prick to him. I just stayed where I was at in the entrence to the building until he moved on. The thing is the guy acted all offended that I did it like I violated some social etiquette by not turning my back on some random person I didn't know in a funky neighborhood.

This time the guy was white, last time the guy was black. Both times I got an offended response, although the black guy calmed down when I asked what the roads were like.

To me, my actions were prudent but I'm wondering did I cross some line of etiquette that I'm not aware of?

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I have lived 69 years so far,and IF my "attitude" pisses off another because they "think" they were in the target zone = good for them.

They are smarter than the average and not going to be taken out easily either.

My age and my survival are my proof that I am doing it correctly,dont like that ----- sorry.

Dont be so obvious, tie your shoe, look at your watch keys, what ever. Dont stare, use your peripheral, retreat to window
I like the cell phone to the ear idea, and have used it.

He might have been thinking tbe same thing you were. Who is this guy and what he up to?

Be less obvious not less vigilant.

I've had women I encountered that were alone in fairly isolated situations make moves that showed they were being cautious. My first reaction long ago was to feel either slightly offended or slightly embarrassed they would see me as a threat.

A moment of thought those years ago had me realize they were not in "Condition White" and were doing the right thing.

Rather than accommodating my comfort, I understand it's a smart thing for them to do.

Another thing I noticed, if I encounter a couple in an isolated situation, women say something to me. I realized they are using my response to judge the threat level. Don't know if that works with men since I'm not sure we can pick up nuances well enough.

I decided to listen to my feelings and be less concerned about offending someone. I couple that with a nod and a neutral face to help the situation.

9mmepiphany said:

There is a big difference between "watching" people go by and "staring" at people...one is an observation the other is a challenge

I'm in my 60s and remember when a common admonition by mothers was,"It is rude to stare"...perhaps you weren't ever cautioned in that manner, perhaps we were just more polite then

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Obviously you didn't learn anything from your mother, maybe some people were more polite back then but you certainly aren't now.

Nothing wrong with being cautious and prudent. If someone else is offended, that's their problem not yours. Stay safe, live long and prosper.

I think you need to read up on Grey Man philosophy if you're unintentionally getting people pee'd off at you.

JMHO, but any stranger that gets offended by your cautiousness, is someone worth being cautious around.

Kinda how I look at it anyway.....

I think it's nice you were concerned they may have been offended. There are still nice people in the world.

Where do you live? Aurora? Commerce City?

I'm in my 60s and remember when a common admonition by mothers was,"It is rude to stare"...perhaps you weren't ever cautioned in that manner, perhaps we were just more polite then

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And that's pretty much my point, in trimmed down fashion.
If you didn't realize you were staring at someone and making them uncomfortable, now you do.
Smooth. Be smooth. Or as bikerdoc said, be less obvious not les vigalent. Which is a beautiful turn of phrase.

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Some members are making the mistake of using brusque grittyness to NOT answer Trunk Monkey's question appropriately.

There's several ways of presenting one's self in brief and casual social interactions. Most Americans tend to exude a cheerful "hail fellow!" demeanor when interacting with strangers on the street. A smile, brief nod, the ubiquitous "How'ya'doin?" Our society does value and expect that kind of politeness and openness. Meet someone's eyes when speaking to them. Shake hands. Don't stare. Speak to people rather than giving them the cold shoulder. Etc., etc. These things display both intent to be friendly/cordial/non-threatening, and confidence. Confidence is important.

(It is important to realize that this is NOT the social norm in a lot of other countries and can be off-putting in those places, but since we aren't talking about traveling right now, we can set that aside.)

There are folks in American society who flub these signals. For one reason or another, they do stare, they are awkwardly silent, they don't meet your gaze when speaking, they're gruff or downright rude, or some combination of all of that.

I think all of us tend to send bad signals like this to some degree, from time to time -- completely unconsciously. And that's how I read Trunk Monkey's opening post. He made the same gaffe in two situations. And he came here to ask what he might be doing wrong, to get consistently negative responses from people who meant him no harm. Yeah, we can offer suggestions for how to avoid looking like a suspicious, grumpy, nasty person -- and thus avoid the BAD things that can happen to you if you go around showing that face to people.

Then there are folks who do these things on purpose. This is a matter of insecurity. They use a wall of bad social signals as a kind of shield, thinking that if they put off everyone, maybe that will also put off those folks who would say or do bad things to them. This comes up on forums a lot. Especially gun forums, full of guys who like to be tough mans' men, hard-boiled like Mike Hammer or Bogart or maybe like they think their favorite war hero badass acts in real life.

I've read posts where guys will say "out on the street, I've GOT no friends and don't WANT no friends, and I don't want anybody coming near me." Or, "the only message I want to send is STAY AWAY!" Or just, "If they're offended by my demeanor, that's THEIR problem!" These guys think that projects strength, and it does, but only to other guys who think exactly that same way. Preaching to their own little choir as it were.

To the rest of society, a mask like that always is a cover for weakness. Pain, injury, fear, insecurity, inability to cope like a stable, secure person can. (Ever notice how in the better movies with tough-guy characters those "heros" are always seriously messed up people with problems that will haunt them to an early grave? Yaaay.) Projecting an outward face that says those things are shielded inside may indeed get a lot of other people to avoid you -- who wants to deal with all that baggage? -- but doesn't dissuade the people you actually need to be wary of. They LIKE weakness. Go on, show them you're an injured animal. See how that works out for you.

Anyway, I do not at all think that Trunk Monkey is a wounded, fearful guy who wants to put up a wall of lowlife badassitude to ward off social interactions. For crying out loud, he works in a public relations role in his church! And he's here asking for help to avoid doing exactly those things. So please, don't tell him it's everyone else's fault if they get offended. It isn't helping him achieve his goals.

ONCE UPON A TIME, there were actually societal rules that ALL followed.

That was also when we used and MEANT the expression "common sense".

Those days are so far gone that I don't see them ever coming back.

More than ever the 'law of the jungle' is what runs the streets.

AND the proof is that any and all those in enforcement and in prisons [ guards I mean ] know that " the look " is what the turds are looking for ----- "the look" is that of the person who is trying to be non confrontational.

That is what the societal turds are looking for,that is why I see that another person being offended by my using EXTREME caution when they are danger close = NOT my worry.

I do not in the least mean that you should EVER take that a step further,even if your ego is damaged by the look back,or the comments " what you think your looking at".

Proper response is to say nothing,or drool and mumble something about the angel's being angry at you [.

No one wants to bother with the insane,and I would rather a stranger think me mad,than make me use any degree of force to prove my manhood.

THE BEST FIGHT / CONFRONTATION -------------------- is the one you did not have.

BUT walking anywhere near me [ close enough to strike or lunge ] is no reason for me to not let you know that I am wary,VERY WARY.

I have run into similar situations as the OP and my usual means of dealing with it is to make eye contact with the person, say something casual such as "How ya doing?" or "Nice weather today" or something similar, depends on the time-location-circumstances. This lets them know that I am aware of them and am probably not a threat to them nor an easy mark. Eye contact and a smile can back some concerns down during casual encounters even tho my hand in my pocket may be on my carry weapon as I am smiling.