Can someone explain to me the advantage of this
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-m4-premium-carbine.html
over this
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/prod...matic-556x45mm-16-barrel-301-rounds?a=1919678
Other than the chrome-lined barrel ?
Also, are the prices high, low, just right ?
TIA !
Personally, I would never buy an AR with slower than a 1:8 twist. Fast twists give you access to heavier bullets, but don't prevent you from using lighter bullets. In practice, there is simply no advantage to a slow twist like the S&W has. /QUOTE]
This is only true to a point. I've seen 55 grain vmax bullets blow up a few yards in front of a 1 in 7" twist barrel.
I'm, let's say, suspicious of your claim. Because the military shoots M193 which is a plain jacketed 55gr. load in 1:7 twist barrels all the time, and nothing funny happens.
Looks like I'm too late, but...
The difference is that the PSA gun is essentially trying to be a mil-spec M4 (semi-auto of course). The barrel looks like a FN-made hammer forged barrel with chrome lining, grenade launcher cut, and a 1:7 twist. The bolt is MPI, shot peened etc. They're basically trying to make the equivalent of the FN gun that gets sold to the army, but cheaper (and without select fire).
The S&W isn't so interested in military features. There's no chrome lining (and no stainless), a slower twist, plastic rear sight, no grenade launcher cut etc.
The price on the S&W at Sportsman's guide is a joke - they're $500 on gunbroker.
Personally, I would never buy an AR with slower than a 1:8 twist. Fast twists give you access to heavier bullets, but don't prevent you from using lighter bullets. In practice, there is simply no advantage to a slow twist like the S&W has. Given that amount of money, I'd go with a less mil-spec config (I don't need a grenade launcher cut, for example) and get a free float rail, especially if you plan to use any kind of optics. Optics plus a plastic handguard result in large POI shifts when you shift positions. That's an unfortunate "feature" of both those guns. Mid-length gas is nice too.
Maybe look at this:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...e-13-5-m-lok-upper-with-bcg-ch-516444973.html
plus this:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...wer-magpul-moe-edition-black-no-magazine.html
Anyway, looking forward to playing with it the first decent weekend ! Does anyone know if Wallmart plinking ammo for .223 is any good accuracy wise ?
To expand on the Primary Arms Micro (edit : since I wasn't the first to say anything about it), I bought one on a Black Friday sale for $49 a couple years back. I saw all the reviews of people who were happy with theirs and saw videos of them being frozen, dragged by a car and hit like a baseball with a bat and figured I wouldn't be out much if it turned out to be a total piece of crap.My last two questions, for now:
Thank you again !
- Since I want this to double as a HD gun, I won't be putting a scope on it. I still want something better than the regular iron sights for shooting at 100 yards. Something that can be used quickly yet is more accurate than the stock sights. Not sure if this means red dot, or holographic, or anything else. Open to suggestions. Would like to keep it around $70 or so, if possible.
My mag of choice these days is Lancer smoke. (They're even on sale right now at Midway)The rifle comes with one mag, any recommendations on what mags to buy ?
Even with a red dot you may find yourself wanting a free-float handguard. With the plastic clamshell, when you change positions (standing vs. prone, slung vs. not slung, bags on bench etc.) it puts different forces on the barrel and bends it differently. The shift in point of impact can be on the order of 5 MOA (5 inches at 100y).A red dot, perhaps.
The sights you've got are "backup" sights design to be flipped down behind an optic. The sights not being adjustable for range is a notable weakness, as is being plastic. You can get a variety of metal rear sights that do adjust for range, but they're out of reach of the price point S&W was trying to hit with this gun. For example the KAC range-adjustable metal rear backup:Thank you !
- The stock Magpul rear sight seems much easier to use than the typical Soviet notched iron sights. OTOH it doesn't have distance-based elevation adjustment - don't know if this is significant. May be the 5.56 NATO just has a flatter trajectory ?
Now, things that surprised me. Remember, I am not used to AR platform. In no particular order...
Overall, the gun feels more ergonomic, yet more "delicate" than the AK. But the real test will come at the range.
- A lot of plastic parts. Stock, magazine, front and rear sights. This makes it feel like a toy, somewhat. Not sure how this compares to the military spec rifles, but it does make AK feel like a tank by comparison.
- The plastic stock rattles a little. Now, this is probably common for all extendable stocks. But it's plastic... Hopefully it's sturdier than it seems.
- The charging handle feels weird and, again, a bit fragile. I am just not used to not operating the bolt directly.
- There's a whole procedure to open the bolt before you can switch safety to "safe". This is probably the strangest thing, since every othe safety equipped gun I've ever handled could be switched to "safe" at any time.
- The very need for forward assist... I guess this has to do with charging handle being a separate device and not attached to the bolt. But this does feel like a design-driven complexity.
Congrats on your new rifle.
The sights you've got are "backup" sights design to be flipped down behind an optic. The sights not being adjustable for range is a notable weakness, as is being plastic. You can get a variety of metal rear sights that do adjust for range, but they're out of reach of the price point S&W was trying to hit with this gun. For example the KAC range-adjustable metal rear backup:
http://shop.knightarmco.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=KM25650
The plastic mag and stock are decently rugged parts. Don't worry about the wiggle in the stock. The sights, yeah, they were trying to hit a price point.
The charging handle should be plenty rugged. It is different Note that it's not touched during normal operation. The forward assist is arguably an unneeded part, but may be useful in a few odd circumstances.
What you describe with the safety does not sound right but maybe I'm misunderstanding. It should be possible to engage the safety with the bolt forward. This should probably be sorted out before firing the gun.
I'm working a bit from memory here because my ARs don't have mil-type ignition systems. But I'm about 95% sure that the only time you can't engage the safety is when the bolt is forward and the internal hammer is down. I'm sure someone with a normal trigger will confirm that, but it's how it works on my guns. Basically you never get into that state in normal operation, only in dry fire or various malfunction scenarios. Because if there was a live round, when you pulled the trigger to get the hammer down it would fire and either return to battery with the hammer cocked (where it can be put on safe) or lock back on empty (where it can be put on safe). So in normal operation the safety is always available to you.Perhaps I am not describing it clearly. The procedure is even described in S&W manual:
"If the safety lever won’t rotate to the “SAFE” position - pull the charging handle (uniformly by both sides) all the way back (FIGURE 9), press and hold the lower portion of the bolt catch down (FIGURE 10) while you release pressure on the charging handle. This will lock the bolt in the open posi- tion. Return charging handle fully for- ward until it locks and remove finger from bolt catch."
So I could be wrong, but I believe a 1 in 7 twist is actually a more versatile twist rate as opposed to 1 in 9. Likewise, I'd prefer chrome-lined barrel if I had the option.
Of course here, the price difference is huge. I liked the M&P Sport "1"' melonite lined barrel. Supposedly as protective as chrome (or close) without the inherent imperfections that affect accuracy and so on.
As the others have said, I think there may be better options than the PSA rifle, perhaps for a bit cheaper.
I'm working a bit from memory here because my ARs don't have mil-type ignition systems. But I'm about 95% sure that the only time you can't engage the safety is when the bolt is forward and the internal hammer is down. I'm sure someone with a normal trigger will confirm that, but it's how it works on my guns. Basically you never get into that state in normal operation, only in dry fire or various malfunction scenarios. Because if there was a live round, when you pulled the trigger to get the hammer down it would fire and either return to battery with the hammer cocked (where it can be put on safe) or lock back on empty (where it can be put on safe). So in normal operation the safety is always available to you.
OK, you had me worried for a bit. This video will show you how how a standard trigger works:Dryfired. Guilty as charged...
Thank you !
Anyway, I just received my Sport II. Haven't had a chance to shoot it - and probably won't get to this weekend - but played with it a lot. Here's my impressions so far - remember, I am only familiar with AKM/S (7.62mm ones) and SKS.
Some of these may sound like criticism but they are not - I am not familiar enough with this rifle to criticize anything. More like, things that are unexpected / surprising.
Will start with definite positives.
Now, things that surprised me. Remember, I am not used to AR platform. In no particular order...
- The rifle, even with basic hand guard, feels significantly more ergonomic and comfortable and "pointy" than any AK that I shot or handled. And some of it has to do with barrel being in line with stock. The AK-74 would probably come somewhat closer due to lighter weight vs AKM, but still not the same.
- The stock Magpul rear sight seems much easier to use than the typical Soviet notched iron sights. OTOH it doesn't have distance-based elevation adjustment - don't know if this is significant. May be the 5.56 NATO just has a flatter trajectory ?
- It's nice that the rear sight can be flipped out of way when used with sight attachments.
- I really like the adjustable stock.
- The safety switch can be flipped with my thumb.
- Fit and finish seem very good. For what's considered an entry level AR, it looks and feels like a piece of precise machinery. Will see how that finish holds with time.
- I find the magazine easier to attach than the AK's catch-and-pivot design, feels more intuitive.
Overall, the gun feels more ergonomic, yet more "delicate" than the AK. But the real test will come at the range.
- A lot of plastic parts. Stock, magazine, front and rear sights. This makes it feel like a toy, somewhat. Not sure how this compares to the military spec rifles, but it does make AK feel like a tank by comparison.
- The plastic stock rattles a little. Now, this is probably common for all extendable stocks. But it's plastic... Hopefully it's sturdier than it seems.
- The charging handle feels weird and, again, a bit fragile. I am just not used to not operating the bolt directly.
- There's a whole procedure to open the bolt before you can switch safety to "safe". This is probably the strangest thing, since every othe safety equipped gun I've ever handled could be switched to "safe" at any time.
- The very need for forward assist... I guess this has to do with charging handle being a separate device and not attached to the bolt. But this does feel like a design-driven complexity.
View attachment 230479
From what I read, the 1:7 rate is better for heavier grain bullets used in long distance shooting. So I will not have a need for this in the foreseeable future.
The chrome lined barrel - again, from what I read, it increases the life of the barrel when using corrosive primers, and not cleaning after each use (military conditions), but it tends to decrease accuracy. S&W supposedly is using their version of nitrite treatment similar to Glock's tenifer. Again, I may be wrong, but this doesn't seem to be that important for a casual civilian shooter.
In the end, S&W just made more sense as an overall gun package, especially at this price point - it was just $520 total after FFL fees. This leaves me some money for better sights.
Yeah, I actually didn't include that at the price points mentioned, I'd have taken the S&W without hesitation.
I can't believe you got that kind of deal! My SU-16 was like $600 out the door although I had to transfer it twice. But that is just a smokin' deal. Best of luck with it!