H&Ks vs Sigs and Walther

I'm not sure there's a better gun made than the current HK line. They have a reputation for reliability, long life, robust nature, ease of maintenance and accuracy. What more could one ask. HK prices are right in line with the other quality manufacturers. The P30 is an excellent handgun. Personally. if I had a choice of any handgun, I'd opt for an HK. I trust them to perform.

I have all of the mentioned brands, and a few more like Beretta/CZ/Ruger...I think it comes down to ergonomics and features you require for personal needs. Also the trigger/safety tend to be different on many pistols, along with DA/SA or SAO...etc.

Once you know your needs, selecting becomes easier.

I own SIGs, HKs, Walthers, a Glock 19, and CZ SP01.

I really like my HKs and enjoy shooting them. The VP9 is sweet though I personally prefer my PPQ a little bit more. The P30L is a very top tier pistol. The main complaint about the P30 series is the long trigger reset. For me it is a total non issue but if you expect or need a short reset the P30 will disappoint you. Out of the box the DA trigger pull is stiff but improves with shooting and many of us put a lighter hammer spring in the P30/P30L to improve DA pull.

My suggestion is to try and rent the VP9 and a P30/30L and see how you like shooting them - unless you are afraid to because of what may happen to your wallet.

Sigs and HK's are great. I have three HKs and my first Sig I'll pick up next week.

Just depends on your preference for metal or polymer. None of my HKs have ever malfunctioned.

Not going to find a better hammer fired polymer pistol than a Hk. Not going to find a better striker fired gun than a walther. Not going to find a better all metal gun than a sig, however I personally like Cz's more but not because I would consider them better but just personal preference.

Hk makes a very well built handgun. A lot of people complain about HK pricing, nobody complains about HK quality.

I own: SIGs, Walthers, HKs, S&Ws, Les Baer's, Colts, Ruger's

I currently own 4 HKs, biggest pluses I see for the brand are reliability, accuracy and flexibility (triggers).

Biggest draw-back are IMHO their triggers; the DA/SA is "OK" at best, and the reset on the P series is very long. The LEM is positively my favorite defensive trigger (I own examples of every common trigger made and have carried them at one time of another). Pull weights are an easy fix as springs can be swapped out, reset can be shortened, but this is $$$$ and time for a smith (I've had 2 done). They are modular to some extent as the user can swap out triggers, safeties etc. (depending on model) with a few simple tools. You can also adjust pull weights by swapping out springs. The magazine release once you're used to it is positively genius, and is the only style mag release I use that does not require me to change my grip, or use my support hand to activate quickly. The ergonomics on the P30 series and the VP9 are flexible and excellent as far as getting a combination that fits you.

Honestly a very solidly built pistol and unlike other makers HK does not seem to release a pistol before it's ready and use it's customers as beta testers.

Chuck

Honestly a very solidly built pistol and unlike other makers HK does not seem to release a pistol before it's ready and use it's customers as beta testers.

Chuck

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I agree with everything Chuck said but the above is a MAJOR plus.

The Lite LEM trigger is the way to go with an HK. On the P30, that's V(ariation) 1. I have four HKs, all with that trigger.

I own a few Sigs (a P226 NSW, a P226 Legion, a P229 Legion, and a German P245) all are flat out reliable, well made, accurate guns that I trust to the point that I routinely carry the Legion 226 and P229 and the P226 NSW is my night stand gun with a Streamlight TLR-1 mounted on the rail.

I have a few Walthers (a P99AS, a P99cAS, and a PPS). Again flat out reliable, well made, accurate guns that I fully trust with my life as I will carry the P99's in the summer months when I wear lighter clothing and the weight of the Sig is just a bit much. I also carry the PPS often when I need a gun that's a bit slimmer because I'm wearing tailored clothing.

Additionally, I've got two HK's now and have had a few others in the past that I have parted company with, not because they were bad guns. bit because I just didn't use them that often other than the occasional range trip. I currently have a VP9 and a P30L V1. I previously had a USP Compact .40 S&W, a P2000 V2 LEM, and a USP .45. The VP9 is as good a striker fired gun as anything else out there; the trigger has a short smooth takeup that doesn't stack as stiffly as a Glock, the trigger breaks much more crisply and cleanly out of the box than a Glock, and the reset is relatively short. The gun is reliable and accurate and the ergonomics are what I'd call the best in its class of guns (the Walthers are a close second). The P30L is an outstanding gun. The light LEM trigger has a nice smooth, though slightly long takeup, the break is very light and crisp, and the reset, while long isn't any worse than my Sig P226 NSW or P245 both of which lack the SRT triggers. The P30 is mechanically more accurate than I am capable of exploiting and reliability is standard boring HK, goes bang every time that a live round is chambered and the trigger is pressed. The P30's ergonomics are second to NONE and I really like the texture on the grip. The USP's were much like the P30 in the accuracy and reliability departments. The triggers were both of the DA/SA decock and safety variety and while a little on the stiff side out of the box, after about a thousand or so rounds, they smoothed right out and with the addition of a $10 mainspring rated at 10 lbs rather than the OE 12 lbs, you have yourself a very good serviceable DA/SA trigger. The downsides to the USP's, their ergonomics are decent, but nowhere near as good as the P30 and they could be problematic for shooters with smaller hands. In regard to the P2000, again, reliable, accurate, ergonomics that are improved over the USP, but not quite up to speed with the P30 or a Walther. The V2 LEM trigger is a good serviceable trigger DAO system. On all of my HK's I've had great experiences with them, and I do even carry the P30L on occasion when I want to carry a full size gun, but want a little lighter weight than my P226. I for one, really like the paddle magazine release on the HK's and Walthers. In fact I prefer it over the more conventional push button releases.

In regard to HK pistols, as was mentioned above, the complaints that you see about them are typically price, stiff DA/SA triggers out of the box, slightly long trigger reset (though it's not a problem at all unless all you've ever shot is a striker fired gun, a 1911, or a Sig with an SRT trigger), and the magazine release (again a nonissue if you simply take a little time to get used to dropping the magazine with your gun hand's trigger finger or even your gun hand's middle finger). Bottom line with HK, they're an outstanding gun, and I've never regretted forking out the cash for them.

I'm just gonna point out that H&K never breaks 5% representation at the USPSA production nationals (nor any other division, but production is where they would have the best chance). https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/h-ks-vs-sigs-and-walther.820930/

[giggles and runs away]

ATLDave said:

I'm just gonna point out that H&K never breaks 5% representation at the USPSA production nationals (nor any other division, but production is where they would have the best chance). https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/h-ks-vs-sigs-and-walther.820930/

[giggles and runs away]

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There's always that ONE guy. Oh well. USPSA gun counts are about as useful driver counts on the PGA Tour; not all that useful to the end consumer. Folks are going to buy what suits them.

LOL! Good analogy!

ATLDave said:

I'm just gonna point out that H&K never breaks 5% representation at the USPSA production nationals (nor any other division, but production is where they would have the best chance). https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/h-ks-vs-sigs-and-walther.820930/

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Because that matters? Oh wait, nope it doesn't.

I like HKs, but there are a few reasons why I have not and probably will not own one. First off, they are often priced too far above value. Yes they are quality pistols, but not at the price point I have seen gun stores charge for them. One of the first HKs I ever saw was in a pawn shop, USP in 40 with the Stainless slide. Used, rough condition, one magazine, and nothing else. Price tag still said $900, which is what new USPs go for. Another experience I had was holding a HKP2000K. Very nice trigger but not worth the extra 3 or $400 over what I could get a Walther PPQ for.

Another reason, much more personal, is HK don't feel all that right in my hand. They have a higher bore axis than I like or am used to. They also have very thick slides, like what the old Ruger P series used to be. There are too many things about HKs I don't like do justify a price I don't want to pay anyway.

herrwalther said:

Because that matters? Oh wait, nope it doesn't.

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It kinda does and it kinda doesn't. I thought winkman's post above drew a good analogy. It's relevant to the question of whether something is, in fact, a "best shooting" pistol in a given category. If there's a pistol that gives actual, demonstrated benefits in terms of peak performance shooting (in particular, combining accuracy and speed), then it's likely to be attractive to competitors. There are criteria beyond those, though, such as tolerance to lots of foreign material or other abuse, ease of repair/takedown, weight for carry, night sights for low visibility, friendliness to suppressors, etc. And then there's the individual variability.

Those limitations are why I "giggled" when I posted. It was mostly T-I-C.

Redcoat3340: said:

I've got a bunch of Sigs and a bunch of Walthers pretty much to the exclusion of everything else except one each of the classics: BHP, CZ75, Colt 1911 9mm, S&W 5906 etc.

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I wouldn't hesitate to add an HK P30 to this collection, if You can find a nice used .40S&W you can save up to $300.00 over the cost of a new 9mm, my 9mm P30 has the grip built up with the largest backstrap and side shells, so it fits my hand better than any other pistol that I own. And IMHO this really enhances the accuracy of this gun at the range!

Well, I guess I'll say they ain't fer me. HKs, that is. I've only owned one, a P2000SK V3. I somehow talked myself into it based upon very limited handling at the LGS and reading reviews on the HK forum and other sites. I guess I was itching for for a new gun or something, but it seemed that so many people rated them highly, an awesome carry gun, etc. So, I ordered it. I got it home, handled it some, and started seriously wondering if this was the same gun everyone was raving about. The DA trigger was literally about 18 pounds (my wife is in great shape, runs, exercises, lifts weights at times, can easily one-hand-fire any DA gun we have, and she could not fire the HK in DA). I think my kids have Nerf guns that have less of a plasticky boooingggg! when dry fired (granted, this has nothing to do with functionality, but I hate a cheap plastic feel in a handgun). It felt to me rediculously top-heavy with a resulting overall terrible balance, and a silly-short grip considering that the overall height of the gun is plenty to allow another finger on the grip (a CZ 75 PCR, for example, is physically about the same size, holds 4 more rounds, but is so much better balanced and with a longer grip that avoids the pinky dangle, something I hate).

At the time I had several CZs, a BHP, a Beretta 92, a 1911, and some wheel guns and semi-auto 22s. I found zero interest in shooting that HK, I couldn't ever imagine it getting out of the safe to go to the range, so I sold it. I am 99% certain that I'll never own another one. So with the choices laid out by the OP, give me a Sig or a Walther. Or pretty much anything else. YMMV.

I6turbo said:

Well, I guess I'll say they ain't fer me. HKs, that is. I've only owned one, a P2000SK V3. I somehow talked myself into it based upon very limited handling at the LGS and reading reviews on the HK forum and other sites. I guess I was itching for for a new gun or something, but it seemed that so many people rated them highly, an awesome carry gun, etc. So, I ordered it. I got it home, handled it some, and started seriously wondering if this was the same gun everyone was raving about. The DA trigger was literally about 18 pounds (my wife is in great shape, runs, exercises, lifts weights at times, can easily one-hand-fire any DA gun we have, and she could not fire the HK in DA). I think my kids have Nerf guns that have less of a plasticky boooingggg! when dry fired (granted, this has nothing to do with functionality, but I hate a cheap plastic feel in a handgun). It felt to me rediculously top-heavy with a resulting overall terrible balance, and a silly-short grip considering that the overall height of the gun is plenty to allow another finger on the grip (a CZ 75 PCR, for example, is physically about the same size, holds 4 more rounds, but is so much better balanced and with a longer grip that avoids the pinky dangle, something I hate).

At the time I had several CZs, a BHP, a Beretta 92, a 1911, and some wheel guns and semi-auto 22s. I found zero interest in shooting that HK, I couldn't ever imagine it getting out of the safe to go to the range, so I sold it. I am 99% certain that I'll never own another one. So with the choices laid out by the OP, give me a Sig or a Walther. Or pretty much anything else. YMMV.

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So IF I get what you're saying, you bought a P2KSK, dry fired it, decided it was top heavy (without ever loading it??), never actually shot it, decided it wasn't for you, and sold it??

Chuck

I was always impressed with HK's reputation for reliability, in particular the torture testing that the USP had gone through in the SOCOM Trials. Eventually I picked up a used compact in .40 and it did not disappoint.

If I had to describe the USP in one word it would be "solid". They just plain work. Sure, maybe the trigger isn't spectacular but it's not that bad either. The important thing is that it goes bang every time you pull it.

They build nice machineguns.

HK, Sig, Walther: All three of those manufacturers make excellent guns. Its hard to go wrong with any gun in their line up. One could debate all day and get choice anxiety of selecting just one. For me the "go to" duty pistol for home defense is the HK P30 V3.

I think H&K's are over priced. I settled on Sig years ago for a carry and never found a reason to buy anything else. I've had three, have one now, and none ever failed me.

Their service won't be beat by anyone and they are as reliable as a hammer.

H&K is a fine pistol. I had one years ago and would like to have another one. If I could find a good used one that didn't cost almost as much as new one I might have another. They just don't show up very often where I shop.

Chuck R. said:

So IF I get what you're saying, you bought a P2KSK, dry fired it, decided it was top heavy (without ever loading it??), never actually shot it, decided it wasn't for you, and sold it??

Chuck

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No. I bought a P2KSK, handled it a good bit over the course of 2-3 months and tried to warm up to it, tried to see some positives and find a spot for it among the guns I want to keep. Instead, I never warmed up to it. I realized it is top heavy with relatively poor balance whether loaded with one round or 11, and the balance does change a lot from a full mag to empty. I realized that an ~18 pound DA trigger is a big killjoy and completely unnecessary. I realized that the 2-finger grip is annoyingly short despite the fact that the gun is as tall as other similar size 3-finger guns (such as the CZ 75 PCR or P-01) that have much more comfortable grip lengths and 40% greater magazine capacity. The plasticky boooooingggg upon dry fire was just icing on the cake of things I didn't like about the the gun. Then I sold it.

H&K does hate you. While my employer was under contract with H&K, the company decided it would go in a different direction and pursue military contracts, since U.S. law enforcement contracts didn't make the company enough money. We couldn't get factory support, parts took forever to come in. We ended up switching to an American company for our needs.

Most of the H&K fans I know simply don't have substantial experience with other manufacturers' platforms. Until the H&K P-30 and H&K-45, the company pretended ergonomics were unimportant to the end-user. Too late; other manufacturers got ahead.

Also, H&K took too long to realize that a lot of consumers appreciated a good trigger. Walther, to its credit, was one of the first polymer-framed pistol makers to come out with a decent trigger, forcing SIG and S&W to improve their offerings' triggers.