Is Colt gone?

After Colt turned it's back on the civilian market years ago , I really don't care if they make it or not . I did buy a Colt 1911 70 series a couple years and before that I was going to buy a SAA , but never could find one , so I bought an Uberti that I am happy with for half the price . I was also going to buy a 6920 a few years ago and could not find one ( see them online a lot now , just not local ) , so I bought a S&W Mid Length . So they could make money if they put out an available product on the market , at a reasonable price . That might mean moving .

Bankruptcy is one of the financial tools available to corporations. Colt as a company has been "hurting" for a long time. It most notably started after WWII. A number of the firearms companies were hurting after wartime production ceased.

Colt has made some business decisions that turned out poorly. For example, when Ruger started their business making essentially a woodman and single six, Colt was very slow to react. You may recall that Apple and Microsoft came about because IBM did not want to make PC's. They were entrenched into the main frame computer market. Amazing how the future turned out with regard to PC's.

Zig and zag. Early on in this discussion I wrote that Colt, in every instance where it mattered, zigged when the rest of the industry zagged. Examples.
Between about 1905 and 1909, Colt put out the first DA revolvers with a really "positive" safety device. That was the last real innovation in DA revolvers Colt even made until they revamped (zigged) their DA revolver line, the dropped it entirely (zagged). Meantime, they had decided not to bring back the Single Action after WWII (zigged), then when the TV "cowboy" craze hit decided to resume manufacture (zagged). They tried to revamp their 1911 pistol line but wound up with the Double Eagle, a half-baked design that was not well received by anyone, but which cost a pile (zig and zag). Still smarting, they put a pile of money into a plastic pistol (the All American 2000) in 9mm to compete with the Glock; Instead of being innovative, it was a disaster. (More zig and zag!) All in all, not what even a friend could call an example of great management.

Those missteps, coupled with Colt's CEO backing gun control, with rigid controls on the purchase and ownership of handguns (he was fired) didn't help a lot. And hiring a figurehead retired Marine general as president was not productive; he seems to have had good intentions, but absolutely no idea of how to run a private company.

Jim

I have one Colt - a minty late 40's Official Police - and the smoothness and tightness of it's action puts every Smith and Wesson I own to shame. Very accurate, too. Amazing that human hands could make that level of quality.

For a lot of people, that'll always be the selling point of Colt...the craftsmanship and skill that used to go into their guns. So I'm not sure they could recapture their former glory with robotics or CNC or high tech pistols, even if the resulting product was equal to a hand-crafted gun in every way. OTOH, I had a near new Colt SAA years ago, and it had a similar quality feel...but it was one of the most inaccurate handguns I've ever owned. My brother had a .22 Colt single action that was also inaccurate. But I had a beat up Colt .22 SA that was real accurate. My limited experience has been that Colt revolver accuracy has been off and on for the last several decades. That's a reputation that's hard to live down, too.

Colt DAs, even at the worst of times, have always been accurate; it has been their saving grace, and reports have been that the new DA line, before it was discontinued, was equal to the old guns in that respect..But how can a new Colt DA revolver be accurate if there is no such thing as a new Colt DA revolver? And those old Colts needed, based on the statements of the factory, a complete factory checkup and rebuild after a few thousand rounds, something no other company seems to require.

Jim

I did a shootout betwixt an unfired OP & a minty Model 10 last year, same ammo through both guns.

The Smith easily beat the Colt in 25-yard accuracy.
Denis

Me and a friend of mine both bought new .357 revolvers back around 1986 . I bought a S&W 686-3 and he wanted the Colt name and bought a King Cobra . The fit on it was terrible , he sent it back twice and was still not happy with it , but I will say the CS was good . It never was as accurate as my 686 either . On the plus side , look what he can sell it for now , compared to what I could get for my 686 .

On the other side of the coin, I bought a new King Cobra 1990 and have happily put over 30k rounds thru it.

DPris said:

And it's not a matter of Colt thinking people want an SAA for $2000.
It's a matter of buyers being unable to GET SAAs for $1500 that they DO want, because Colt won't produce enough of 'em.
Denis

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More like "can't" produce more than "won't". I was speaking with a very respected industry insider the other day about this. He told me Colt now has one person still making the SAA, and that guy is 57 years old. When he retires, the SAA is done. There are no apprentices being trained to take his place. Regular production workers won't move to that position, because of union rules, they'd have to take a pay cut.

That sounds about right and how a union shop works . I was a union member for 30 years . If they were making money with them , the company and union would upgrade the position .

Sebastian the Ibis said:

Colt has 100+ year old tooling for making revolvers and 1911's, they are not going to make anything which would cut into those sales.

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Patently false.

Sebastian the Ibis said:

Colt still thinks people want a modern single action army for $2k, when its competitors offer a product superior in every respect (except nostalgia) for 75% less. It is really shocking Colt is still in business at all.

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Colt has a two year backlog on their SAA's, so apparently a lot of folks want to buy a premium SAA. Competitors offer an alternative for about a third the cost of the SAA but the Colt is still superior in every way. I'm a long time critic of Colt and their SAA but let's be realistic.

Colt's had essentially one guy "making" the Peacemaker for some time now, no news there.
The company could increase production if they wanted to strongly enough, but they don't want to allocate the necessary resources.

The Peacemaker barely lingers on & its days are numbered, but it's not the market that's the reason, it's Colt.
The guns WOULD sell at $1500, IF Colt would produce 'em in volume.
Denis

Denis is correct, but the Yankees running Colt these days are not the smartest in New England.

Armybrat said:

Denis is correct, but the Yankees running Colt these days are not the smartest in New England.

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They aren't interested in building firearms. What they are interested in is loading the company in debt while lining their pockets.

HexHead said:

More like "can't" produce more than "won't". I was speaking with a very respected industry insider the other day about this. He told me Colt now has one person still making the SAA, and that guy is 57 years old. When he retires, the SAA is done. There are no apprentices being trained to take his place. Regular production workers won't move to that position, because of union rules, they'd have to take a pay cut.

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I think this is BS, you mean to tell me a production line employee makes more than skilled gunsmith??
It has nothing to do with the Union and everything to do with Colt management. When they do go belly up, loaded down with profit skimming debt then Unions will get blamed. Pure and simple.
This rant is Not intended for the OP, just the source!

I really do not feel sorry for the Colt Company owners AKA "Zilkha & Co. (85%) and others" if you read up on the fall of Colt the 2 time bankrupt company,
some of their choices like teaming up with anti-gun types to promote smart guns just insane, Colt lost the M4 Gov contract due to their rifle was not reliable
I would agree that Colt is not concerned with quality as it once was, Colt has no Gov or LE contracts behind the game in the civilian market , closing divisions
of the company and several rounds of lay off's, sounds like Colt is a train-wreck for the most part.
Their are article's talking of how Colt's CEO's lied to the banks about their inventory of built guns and parts to secure more loans to stay afloat so I too agree
lining pockets was a goal and it came out in the public release of their BK

JO JO said:

Colt has no Gov or LE contracts behind the game in the civilian market , closing divisions
of the company and several rounds of lay off's, sounds like Colt is a train-wreck for the most part.

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Well, perhaps some agencies are ordering directly from distributors sans contracts with the company, but I know for a fact that there are still law enforcement agencies that are continuing to buy Colt M-4 carbines for patrol rifles and tactical teams.

Apparently Colt has seriously burned quite a few bridges, judging by the amazing number of folks piling on to bash the company. Is this all residual heartburn about Colt not continuing to produce revolvers (since this is the revolver sub-forum), the decline in quality of the company's products, or is everybody here just now figuring out that corporate management cares more about their golden parachutes than satisfying consumers and producing quality goods? Either way, seems as though discussion about this company spawns a lot of hatred, anger and bitterness.

I don't think the name of Colt is down for the count by any means,...

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I agree. Over the years, Colt has been in and out of bankruptcy so many times they're probably on a first name basis with the judge. With a limited range of products, high prices and a spotty reputation for quality, Colt will almost certainly be back in bankruptcy before too long. And then someone will buy the name and logo out of the bankruptcy court and open up a new Colt. They may even keep the headquarters where it is at, but with most production moved to another state or country; China, Brazil, Turkey have all been mentioned as possibilities.

Old Dog wrote:
Is this all residual heartburn...

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I have no real animosity towards Colt one way or another.

I have never owned one of their products because each time I have looked for something in a product line they made, the price vs. value calculus never seemed to favor the Colt. When I think about Colt, I look at it with much the same approach I would take with the forensic analysis of any other trainwreck.

Colt is easy to "bash" because they, like American Motors and the many other companies that have trod this path before are dying a long, slow, lingering death due to numerous wounds self-inflicted by their almost comically inept management. Reading about Colt's management's latest antics are like reading a graduate case-study in Business School. It just leaves you shaking your head and wanting to ask, "To which school did you send a SASE to get your MBA or LLM"?

Well, perhaps some agencies are ordering directly from distributors sans contracts with the company,...

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They may well be. But that's different from being on a sole-source contract or as one of a handful of approved vendors. Sales of a handful of M4s here and there to small departments or agencies "off contract" or because the agency isn't big enough to go through formal contracting procedures are not going to be enough to sustain Colt. Each such sale just postpones the inevitable.

Mycin said:

Just got back from the Dallas Market Hall gun show.

In one of the booths, a guy had a nice display of various Colt revolvers -- Pythons, Anacondas, King Cobras, Troopers, etc., in various finishes and configurations. I commented on the Anaconda in 45LC, that I'd heard they were pretty rare. I then made a comment that I hoped that maybe Colt might bring them back in a few years, if the new Cobra sells well.

The man said, "Colt's gone. It's not been announced, but they laid off the last of their factory workers last Thursday."

I did a quick web search but didn't find anything about this. Has anyone else heard about this? Was he just B.S.-ing, hoping to make a sale? I'm not even sure if he was trying to sell anything -- none of the revolvers had any sort of price tag, and they were all in glass cases, like he was just showing off his collection.

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I have nothing I can say to this particular rumor. But, to rumors in general, if I had a $1 for every lie I've been told at a gun show or gun store counter over the years, I wouldn't be very worried about the price of those rare guns today

hdwhit said:

I agree. Over the years, Colt has been in and out of bankruptcy so many times they're probably on a first name basis with the judge. With a limited range of products, high prices and a spotty reputation for quality, Colt will almost certainly be back in bankruptcy before too long. And then someone will buy the name and logo out of the bankruptcy court and open up a new Colt. They may even keep the headquarters where it is at, but with most production moved to another state or country; China, Brazil, Turkey have all been mentioned as possibilities.

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Agreed. I carried an agency-issued Colt rifle for many years, before the switch to a S&W rifle. The Colt was fine, and I never had any issues with it. But, it wasn't anything special, and it hasn't done anything that any other AR-15/M4 hasn't done for me, despite costing hundreds of dollars more. The Colt brand has been resting on their name for too long, and offering too little to the customer in return. I feel like the only time I hear someone buying a Colt these days is when they simply want to get something with the Colt name for the sake of historic nostalgia.

I hope Rock Island buys them. Rock Island has been more serious about making firearms than Colt has for quite a while.

Rock Island probably doesn't want or need them, they already have their version of the Detective Special and a whole bunch of 1911's. I suppose the existing ones could be the budget line and then a colt premium line

sabbfan said:

Rock Island probably doesn't want or need them, they already have their version of the Detective Special and a whole bunch of 1911's. I suppose the existing ones could be the budget line and then a colt premium line

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They make a decent M1911 at a reasonable price. I have no doubt that they could do likewise with the Official Police and Police Positive.

Problem with anyone buying Colt is that they're buying a lot of debt and little else. They're mostly buying what everyone else has been buying, the Colt name. The sad part is that everything Colt is making right now is very good quality. The SAA and 1911's are better than they've been for decades.