Personally I love 16 ga, but why is it so uncommon? It is right between 12 and 20 ga with an optional load of 1 oz. of shot, seems like it would be more versatile then 20 but not overpowered in some applications like a 12 can be. So why is it on the brink of becoming an odd ball gauge?
what's wrong with 16 ga
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1. What few 16s are made are on 12 gauge frames and thus too heavy for the payoff.
2. Modern loads in the 20 can do everything the 16 can in a lighter package.
3. Manufacturers don't support the 16 and offer very few loads.
All that said, my first shotgun was a Model 12 in 16 gauge, back in the fifties, and I enjoyed it and it did fine on game. My Ithaca 20 now serves for my limited bird hunting.
4. Most older 16s are either worn or have been snapped up by collectors further reducing demand.
Too bad, actually.
Stan
2. Modern loads in the 20 can do everything the 16 can in a lighter package.
3. Manufacturers don't support the 16 and offer very few loads.
All that said, my first shotgun was a Model 12 in 16 gauge, back in the fifties, and I enjoyed it and it did fine on game. My Ithaca 20 now serves for my limited bird hunting.
4. Most older 16s are either worn or have been snapped up by collectors further reducing demand.
Too bad, actually.
Stan
DDDWho
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Every male member of my Mother's side of the family used the 16 gauge. When I inherited this 16 ga. Model 12 Winchester some 40 years ago 16 ga ammo was beginning to get scarcer and scarcer. I think ammo manufacturers caused the downfall of the 16 ga. to streamline production to mostly 12 and 20. This one was given to me by my Mother's brother while he was still living which makes it extra special to me.
The Model 12 Winchester was built on a 20 ga. frame making it 20 ga. light but able to put more shot in the air. It was the only shotgun I carried for some 20+ years of upland game hunting. I, like my Uncle before me killed a lot of stuff with this shotgun
The Model 12 Winchester was built on a 20 ga. frame making it 20 ga. light but able to put more shot in the air. It was the only shotgun I carried for some 20+ years of upland game hunting. I, like my Uncle before me killed a lot of stuff with this shotgun
cdb1
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PapaG said:
There are a number of 16 gauges in current production made on a correctly scaled or a 20 gauge frame. They aren't cheap though.
I've read numerous times the advent of the 3" 20 gauge shell is what doomed the 16 gauge.
I sure like the 16 gauge though.
Not much wrong with it. Many Walmarts carry 1oz, 1&1/8, and 1&1/4 oz loads. These cost more than 12ga loads with same weight of shot. Non-tox are limited to Federal, Remington steel shot Kent Bismuth and HeviShot. RST offers niceshot, bismuth. Non-tox can't be found at Walmart. If you show up with a 16ga you might get nickname Elmer Fudd.
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.308 Norma
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I didn't know that. But it sure sounds familiar - just like the first .41 Magnums being built on .44 Magnum frames.
BTW - I love both 16s and 41s. But I've always taken pride in being a little bit of an oddball.
.308 Norma
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Yeah, I think you're right. But there were plenty of Smith K and L frame 357s around before the 41 Magnum was introduced on the Smith N frame in 1964.
It's just my opinion, but I feel the 41 might have done better in the marketplace if it would have been originally introduced on the Smith L frame. I sure like my Smith L frame 44 (Model 69) anyway. I just wish it was a 41 instead.
bearman49709
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IIRC Browning builds the Citori on a 16 ga frame, the BPS is built on a 20 ga frame and the A5 sweet 16 is built on a 16 ga frame and weighs under 6 pounds.
The L frame came out in 1980 sixteen years after the .41 mag.
The N frame came out in 1907 for the .44 spc, latter the .357 mag was chambered in the N frame then the .44 mag followed by the .41 mag.
The L frame came out in 1980 sixteen years after the .41 mag.
The N frame came out in 1907 for the .44 spc, latter the .357 mag was chambered in the N frame then the .44 mag followed by the .41 mag.
On the brink? It went over the brink years ago. While there isn't anything wrong with a 16 there is nothing it will do that a 20 or 12 won't do. In fact there is more than enough overlap between 12 and 20. I can get 12 and 20 ga loads with 7/8 oz in a sub 7 lb shotgun. I really don't see much room for the 20 let alone the 16. One ounce of shot is one ounce of shot; no game animal or clay target cares if it came from a 12, 16, or 20 ga shotgun. And recoil will be the same as long as the guns weigh the same. And a 6.5-7lb shot gun is easy enough to carry regardless of whether it is a 12, 16, or 20 ga.
The only reason the 16 still hangs around is for the same reason many obscure rifle cartridges still hang on. They still work, but offer no advantage and very little disadvantage over more common rounds. Some guys just like to be different. I've been down that path, have owned 16's in the past as well as some older obscure rifles. Not a thing wrong with anyone choosing to do that. Just don't get caught up into believing the odd ball stuff really has any advantage. Enjoy using it for what it is.
.308 Norma
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I didn't know that either.
expat_alaska
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I bolded your comment above, but I think it was the firearm manufacturers' decisions to go with the 3" 20 gauge that was the demise of the 16 gauge.
My Dad had a Model 12 16 gauge 28" FC (1932 2-3/4") inherited from my grand father when he passed away. As was the custom in the 60's, he could not leave it alone and ordered a blond birdseye maple buttstock and fore-end from E.C. Bishop of Warsaw MO, and as he was a devoted follower/buyer of the Herter's (Waseca MN) catalog, and one Winter day in 1969 we stripped it down and reblued it with Herter's Belgian Blue (not a salt blue, per se) with a tank long enough for the barrel, mag tube and receiver. In the basement, we heated those parts in very hot water over two inline 2-burner Coleman stoves, swabbed the parts with the bluing solution, let it dry, and steel-wooled all of the "rust" before repeating the process 15 or more times. It turned out to be one of the best blue jobs I have seen since, and that includes the storied S&W blue.
Sorry to digress.
I am a dyed-in-the-wool Rem 870 12 gauge guy, but that Model 12 16 gauge was a pleasure to shoot and carry, being much lighter than my 26" 870. As it was lighter, the tendency to stop the gun was easy. I made my longest ever pheasant kill (a crossing shot) at 60 paces with it, and my Dad always insisted using #7-1/2 shot and I think a 2-3/4 dram load. I forget what the shot load was, but it smacked birds hard with that gun.
As a teenager in 69-70 I worked at Roberts Shooting Park in Elkhorn NE setting and pulling trap and skeet. There was a guy that shot a Win 12 16 gauge FC a lot from 16 yards and kept even with the 12 gauge guys or even out did them. He shot Rem Shur-Shot shells and allowed me to collect the empty hulls. They were low brass/high base shells and I talked my Dad into buying a set of Herter's 16 gauge reloading dies for his massive Herter's press for his ammo supply. Managed to order (from a local "sport" shop) 2 100 piece bags of 16 gauge one-piece wad columns for 1 oz. of lead shot due to the high base of the Rem hulls (12 gauge target loads at the time were 1-1/8 oz. using Win AA or Federal paper low-base hulls). We used Hercules Red-Dot back then and I think the charge was 17 grains. My Dad was ecstatic as 16 gauge shells back then were more spendy than 12 gauge shells.
Sorry to ramble. You guys bring up old memories and I reminisce. Shame on you! I can remember things from 50 years ago but have a hard time recalling what I had for dinner 3 nights ago.
Never get old.
Jim
Michael Tinker Pearce
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Nothing wrong with 16 gauge; I understand it is still quite popular in Europe. But as others mention being in the overlap between 12 and 20 gauge it doesn't fill any purpose that can't be filled by cheaper 12 or 20s. My first shotgun was a cheap single-barrel top-break, and my favorite it a not-cheap double, an antique TW Stake made by Neuman Freres in Belgium. Beautiful shotgun and I'll happily pay extra for the privilege of shooting it but I don't delude myself that the cartridge is special or does something others don't.
expat_alaska
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You guys just keep me in the past. This is off topic insofar as 16 gauge, but...
One day in the mid 60's my Dad came home with two Fox Sterlingworth SXS shotguns, splinter fore-ends. One was a 12 gauge 30" M/F with ejectors, and the other was a 20 gauge 28" M/F with extractors. Both with double triggers. Manufactured in the 30's, both had a stock drop at the heel of 3" and no recoil pads. A few days later we went into the woods in Northern Michigan on a "pat" (partridge=ruffed grouse) hunting trip and he tested them out. The 12 was good to go. When he shot the 20 with both barrels loaded and pulled a trigger, both barrels fired at the same time. I have heard that the recoil is squared, not doubled, when that happens, but that is hearsay from long ago. Turned out both sears were bad, and he got them replaced/repaired, back when parts were still available.
A few years later I took the 20 out for a round of skeet. It weighed slightly over 5 lbs. Great gun in the field. With the huge drop in the stock, one could not do a good cheek weld and it beat me to death with skeet loads. Never shot it again.
Sorry to hijack this thread.
Jim
One thing that didn't help the 16 gauge is that it was never one of the "skeet" gauges for Registered Skeet events, 12,20,28, and .410. I have shot a 16 here and there over the years, but never saw it as anything other than an almost rare gauge. I always loved the 28 gauge though and have some weird yearning for a 24 or 32 gauge shotgun for some reason.
expat_alaska
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I shot a Rem 870 in 28 many, many years ago at skeet and it was almost like shooting a .22 as far as recoil goes compared to a 12 or a 20.
I am not downgrading it, sir. It is just very different.
Jim
zb338
Member
Maybe there are States like New Jersey was. If you wanted to hunt deer with your shotgun it had
to be a 12 gauge so no one bought 16 gauge shotguns. In Pennsylvania the guys could use rifles
to hunt deer back in the day. So, there were lots of shooters in Pennsylvania that used 16s on small
game. That is pretty much going the way of the Do Do Bird. Because of the reasons stated above.
Zeke
to be a 12 gauge so no one bought 16 gauge shotguns. In Pennsylvania the guys could use rifles
to hunt deer back in the day. So, there were lots of shooters in Pennsylvania that used 16s on small
game. That is pretty much going the way of the Do Do Bird. Because of the reasons stated above.
Zeke
DDDWho
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I do not have an abiding love for the 16 ga. The pic of the gun is recent, the gun is 95+%, not a speck of rust anywhere. It is 70 years old and carried and hunted over many years and 100s of walking miles. My Uncle took care of it as I do. It is my most cherished possession. If it were a 20 or 12 or even a 28 or 410 I would love it just as much. I loved my Uncle dearly... I miss him. The shotgun is a symbol of that
Browning Arms is givivg us Fudds hope by offering Sweet Sixteen, BPS, & Citoris in 16ga. People were saying it is a dying gauge yet decades later it is still here with ammo on Walmart shelves.
My interest in the 16 gauge started when I began collecting the Browning Auto-5. Beautiful guns, and the 12 feels ponderous after handling the 16. The later 20 gauge, built on the 16's receiver, just doesn't feel the same, or look as elegant.
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Saddlebag Preacher
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The best squirrel gun I have is my wife's dad's 16 ga. Iver Johnson circa WW2 single shot. No serial number and most of the bluing and case hardening long gone. It reaches way out and up in the trees. I have a Weatherby and Mossberg shotgun, but this old gal is light and goes into the woods with me often.
Gun Master
Member
I owned only two 16 ga. shotguns, in my lifetime, as I remember it :
1. Hey, remember the Browning Sweet 16 ? and,
2. Stevens Double.
1. Hey, remember the Browning Sweet 16 ? and,
2. Stevens Double.
Riomouse911
Member
I have two 16's, a Model 12 with a 28" solid rib/full choke and an old Lefever Nitro Special that I had cut down to a 20" coach gun because the end of one of the 28" barrels was pitted almost through about 4" from the muzzles.
My first squirrels and doves were taken with the Model 12 many moons ago, and I shoot trap with the gun every once in a while just for nostalgia's sake.
I can find Federal game loads at my LGS and occasionally at Wal Mart...they are a bit pricier than the 12 and 20, but they're less expensive than the .410 3" I need for an 1100...those things run 15 bucks a box and more...
My first squirrels and doves were taken with the Model 12 many moons ago, and I shoot trap with the gun every once in a while just for nostalgia's sake.
I can find Federal game loads at my LGS and occasionally at Wal Mart...they are a bit pricier than the 12 and 20, but they're less expensive than the .410 3" I need for an 1100...those things run 15 bucks a box and more...
I've seen my grandfather's old bolt action 16 gauge. The make and model escapes me, and my aunt has stashed it away somewhere.
I do remember him telling me that he used to hunt rabbits with it most days. Back when my mother was very young in the mid/late 1950s, her family was very poor. To supplement the small amount of meat the he could afford, grandpa would take his 16 and bag a few rabbits. A 20 or .22 would probably be better. However, he didn't have one of those. He had a 16.
I'd love to see that old gun again. It hasn't been shot in 50 years, but it was immaculate beyond a few field scratches and honest wear of providing for the table.
I do remember him telling me that he used to hunt rabbits with it most days. Back when my mother was very young in the mid/late 1950s, her family was very poor. To supplement the small amount of meat the he could afford, grandpa would take his 16 and bag a few rabbits. A 20 or .22 would probably be better. However, he didn't have one of those. He had a 16.
I'd love to see that old gun again. It hasn't been shot in 50 years, but it was immaculate beyond a few field scratches and honest wear of providing for the table.
Crawdad1
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Waterfowl hunting is starting back up again in early September and will run all the way through the end of February with a few breaks. There is just not enough load choices in 16 gauge to hunt all of the different birds so I bought a 12 gauge. I use my 16 gauge double once a year now on Thanksgiving to hunt upland game. Possibly a lot of hunters do this so the demand for 16 gauge just doesn't justify manufacturers keep pumping out the rounds. I don't know.
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