You Never Know What You Are Going to Find at a Gun Show

Howdy

Two weeks ago I attended a local gun show. Medium sized, lots of tables. I really wasn't looking for anything special except I needed targets and I knew the guy I usually buy them from would probably be at this show.

First stop I stopped at the table of a fellow S&W collector to see what he had for sale. He had a New Model #3 Target Model chambered for 32-44, the old target round. It did not function properly and I was not interested because that cartridge is no longer manufactured. Perhaps I could make up rounds from 32 S&W Long, but I really don't know. Anyway, I told him I really was not interested in it. He also had a Baby Russian in the box, but he wanted a lot of money for it, so I passed on that too.

When I got to the guy selling targets I realized like a dope I had forgotten my checkbook. No problem says I, I have been spending too much on guns recently anyway. So I bought the targets with cash and moved on. A couple of more items interested me, but not enough to make an offer, besides, I did not have my checkbook.

Then halfway through the show I spotted what I thought at first was a S&W Russian Model. I asked to see 'the Russian' but as I handled it I realized it was a New Model Number Three, and not a Russian. The dealer did not seem to know the difference, but I sure did. I inspected it very carefully. The finish had a good deal of wear, but the lock up was perfect, and the chambers and bores looked like it had just left the factory yesterday. I checked everything, checked everything for function and it was flawless. I asked him what he wanted for it, and he told me. Then I told him that like a dope I had forgotten my checkbook. He said he would be there all day.

So I raced through the rest of the show, making sure there was not anything else I was interested in. Then I jumped in my car and drove home 45 minutes to retrieve my checkbook. Another 45 minutes back, paying again to enter the show, I hoped it was still there.

It was. I was sure I had lost my bargaining position, since I was obviously panting to buy it. I asked again what he wanted, he gave me the same figure, and I asked if he would take $300 less. He said he would take $200 less and we sealed the deal.

Then I ran home with my new treasure. A S&W New Model Number Three, chambered for 44 Russian. A little bit of snooping found it shipped in 1896.








Since I fully intended to shoot it with Black Powder rounds, I stripped it down and did my normal preparation for a gun I intend to shoot with Black Powder rounds. Cleaned all the old oil and fouling out (there was very little fouling inside, I have since determined this gun has not been fired much). Then relubed everything with a light coating of Ballistol and buttoned it back up again.






I had a box of my Black Powder 44 Russian rounds on hand, so the next day (Sunday) I took it to the range to see how well it would do. Not too shabby. The one flier was probably my fault, not the gun's. I fired about 40 rounds through it to give it a good workout. The trigger is very heavy, but other than that it worked flawlessly. (Disclaimer: Even though the target says 25 yard slow fire, I was shooting a whole lot closer than that)





Took it home and cleaned it again that night.




I posted a few photos on the S&W Forum. I got some interesting tidbits. It seems that there was a large shipment of this model to Japan in 1896, and the speculation is that this one was part of that shipment. That may square with the odd marking next to the lanyard ring, which may or may not be a Japanese acceptance stamp.






So then last Sunday was a CAS match, and I decided it would be New Model Number Three day for me, since I already had a nickel plated 44 Russian NM#3 that left the factory in 1882. This one was refinished at the factory in 1965, so it looks brand new.






Both revolvers got a thorough workout that day, both finished the day nice and sooty.






A few days ago I sent off a request for a factory letter on the blued one, to find out for sure if it was part of that large shipment to Japan. It should be interesting what the letter says.

The moral of the story is, you never know what you will find at a gun show, so don't forget your checkbook.

Or maybe it was fate that I didn't have my checkbook when I found this gem?????

bannockburn said:

Question for you: don't they do a hand stamp so you can get back into the show without having to pay twice? At some shows I might make a couple of trips to my car with whatever I bought so having the hand stamp makes it easy and less expensive to do this.

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Yeah, probably. I was in a hurry and didn't think of it. Small potatoes in the grand scheme of picking up a terrific old NM#3.

AZAndy said:

How early can I go with, say, .38 Special? I don't mind loading with black powder.

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Howdy

Cartridges of the World by Barnes says 1902 for the S&W 38 Military and Police Model of 1902, but that is incorrect. The first gun chambered for 38 Special, or 38 Smith & Wesson Special as S&W likes to say, was the 38 Military and Police Model of 1899. Easily recognized by the lack of an under barrel lug for the front of the ejector rod, this model was also chambered for 38 Long Colt.

This one left the factory in October of 1899.






Regarding whether or not to shoot the very early 38s with Smokeless powder or not, S&W is a little bit squirrelly on the subject. Unlike Colt, which factory warrantied the SAA for Smokeless powder in 1900, there is no hard line in the sand for S&W. Clearly, when introduced the 38 Special was loaded with Black Powder. Turn of the century S&W catalogs advise against shooting Smokeless powder in their revolvers, mostly as a caution against bad handloading practices. This caution seems to arise from S&W's belief that the early Smokeless powders were inconsistent in their potency, and handloading ammunition might make things worse.

I am not really sure when S&W felt it was OK to be shooting Smokeless loads in their revolvers. The catalog of 1905/1906 seems to imply it is OK to shoot Smokeless powder in their revolvers, however regarding Smokeless powders of the time the company explicitly states: "They do excellent work in our revolvers, and while we do not guarantee our arms when smokeless powder is used, and strongly advise against reloaded smokeless ammunition, we have no desire to detract from its merits or discourage its use when properly handled."

I must confess I have not actually fired this Model of 1899. If I were to do so, it would be with very light Smokeless loads.




I will tell you I have fired this very early 44 Special Triple Lock, which left the factory in 1907, with light Smokeless loads.

Howdy

Whether or not Smokeless powder was 'well established' at the turn of the Century is up to the definition of 'well established'. I believe the 30-40 Krag was developed about 1892 and the 30-30 about 1894. These were two very early Smokeless powder cartridges. This was the 'transition period' between Black Powder and Smokeless. I have a reprint of the 1900 S&W catalog that shows the 38 Special as being loaded with 21.5 grains of Black Powder under a 158 grain bullet. That's why the case is so big. Anybody who has ever loaded 38 Special with modern Smokeless powders can attest that the powder usually fills up less than half the case, because modern Smokeless powders are much more energetic than Black Powder. Incidentally, the Model 1899 S&W was also chambered for the old 38 Long Colt cartridge. 38 Special is basically the old 38 Long Colt just lengthened a bit for a bit more powder capacity. 38 Long Colt was the cartridge the Army was disappointing with during the Philippine Insurrection from 1899 until 1902. It was felt the 38 Long Colt did not have enough stopping power. That's why the Army started shopping for a 45 caliber cartridge when they were looking for a new automatic. The S&W catalog shows the 38 Long Colt being loaded with 18 grains of Black Powder under a 150 grain bullet.

The cartridges in this photo are, left to right, 38 S&W, 38 Long Colt, 38 Special, and 357 Magnum.






Somewhere around the early 1920s S&W began heat treating their cylinders. Before that the cylinders were not as strong. I believe it is a general rule of thumb that any S&W with a Model Number stamped on the frame under the yoke (in other words anything made after 1957) is rated for +P ammunition. I most certainly would not be shooting anything labeled +P in any of my old revolvers. Only very light stuff, the same light loads I make up for CAS.


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Could you please explain the difference between the Schofield and the Russian and also what designated this one so clearly to you as a New Model Number Three? Love to learn!

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A quick primer on the five distinct models of Smith and Wesson Top Break revolvers built on the #3 sized frame. You will notice each frame is quite different, they are not interchangeable, #3 simply refers to the size.

The American Model. Introduced in 1869. Chambered for the 44 S&W American cartridge and a few were chambered for 44 Henry Rimfire. Visual clue is the grip is almost straight up and down. Also, notice how long the ejector housing under the barrel is.

The 44 American cartridge used a heeled bullet, meaning the OD of the bullet was the same as the OD of the case. A narrower 'heel' at the rear of the bullet fit inside the case and the case was crimped on the heel. Look at a modern 22 rimfire if you want to see a cartridge with a heeled bullet today. Like the 22, the bullet was lubricated on the outside, and with the soft, gooey Black Powder bullet lubes of the day the bullet lube could pick up contamination.






The Russian Model. Chambered for the 44 Russian cartridge with a few chambered for 44 Henry Rimfire. Actually, the very first Russian Models were identical to the American Model with the exception that they were chambered for the 44 Russian cartridge. This is a 2nd Model Russian with the very distinctive big, sharp hump on the grip and the totally useless spur on the trigger guard. Lots of reasons are given for the hump on the grip and the spur on the trigger guard, but the best reason is that these were stylistic elements the Russians insisted on. The 44 Russian cartridge was of modern 'conventional' construction with the bullet having the same OD as the ID of the case. This meant the bullet lube could be contained in grooves on the bullet inside the case, eliminating the problem of ammunition attracting contamination. Manufactured starting in 1871 with over 150,000 eventually built. Many of these had the useless spur on the trigger guard sawed off. And I can attest the big hump on the grip makes them awkward to shoot, particularly awkward to reach the hammer with the thumb.






The Schofield Model. Chambered for the 45 Schofield cartridge. Nicely curved grip, the barrel latch is mounted on the frame, rather than on the top strap, the only model with that feature. The latch is the serpentine shaped part near the hammer. Total of just under 9,000 manufactured between 1875 and 1877. This one is a 1st Model, made in 1875, refinished at the factory in 1957.






New Model Number Three. The Piece de Resistance of S&W Top Breaks. Cataloged from 1878 until 1908. Chambered for 17 different calibers but 44 Russian was standard. Slight hump on the grip, much more comfortable to shoot than the Russian Model. Very short extractor housing under the barrel. I can perhaps be excused for mistaking this one for a Russian Model because the display case was not well lit. But as soon as I picked it up I realized my error. Some of these had the Russian style spur on the trigger guard, so that can be confusing, but the spur was not standard.






44 Double Action. The only large frame double action Top Break S&W made. Introduced in 1881, cataloged until 1913. The most common chambering was 44 Russian, however they were also chambered for 44-40 and a very few were chamberd for 38-40. This one has target sights and left the factory in 1895, chambered for 44 Russian.






Roy Jinks, the official S&W historian once said that after the Clint Eastwood movie The Unforgiven came out in 1992, with The Schofield Kid and his Schofield revolver, he got a lot of inquiries about 'Schofield' revolvers which turned out to be one of the other four models. I like to say all Schofields are #3s, but not all #3s are Schofields. I will confess that when I first came across my nickle plated New Model #3 in a local shop, I too thought it was a Schofield. I soon learned the difference.