Navy Arms copy S&W #3 New Russian model

[gopguy]

Hi Gang,

Over the weekend I was at a gunshow and ran into a fellow carrying a Navy Arms copy of the Smith and Wesson #3 New Russian model. ANIB conditionThe revolver is beautifully made, the box is interesting and looks vintage. The paper work was interesting too. The guy had a couple boxes of .44 Russian shells with it and wanted $600 after some haggling he came down to $550. He left with the gun. I have his phone number and am stewing on it. Anyone have any experience with these?

 

[StrikeEagle]

Taffin loves it. In his new book he calls it a 'Swiss Watch'.

 

[Father Knows Best]

That's a great price. They are well made, but the little extension on the trigger guard (whatever it's called) is supposedly quite fragile so be careful with it. I've heard that it's just tack welded on.

The 44 Russian cartridge is an exceptionally accurate round. I reload it quite a bit for cowboy shooting.

 

[gopguy]

I will have to dig through my old issues to see if I can find Taffin's article on these. I know he loves his six guns. There is something about the lines of this revolver that I love. Evokes a romantic period long gone...I am finding the ability to resist buying it slip. He had a couple boxes of UltraMax 200 grain cartridges with it. He said these were smokeless....I also checked the Navy Arms website. The Retail is high, over $880. I see Dixie advertises the Uberti Russian with a retail of $925....ouch. $550 with two boxes of ammo is starting to look like a bargain....I think I will give this guy a call today.

Navy's website





NEW MODEL RUSSIAN® REVOLVER
The Smith and Wesson Model 3 Russian Third Model Single Action, also known as the "New Model Russian", was manufactured between 1874 and 1878. Achieving success with many military contracts all over the world, this top break revolver was also very popular in the Old West. It was the side arm of legendary lawman Pat Garrett, the nemesis of Billy "the Kid" Bonney. Known for its accuracy, the "Russian" was considered one of the finest target pistols of the era. The new Navy Arms replica of this Smith and Wesson single action is chambered for .44 Russian, just like the original. It features a color case hardened spur trigger guard, latch and hammer, blued frame, cylinder and barrel, and walnut stocks. Bbl. Length: 6 1/2"; O.A.L.: 12"; Weight: 2 lbs. 8 oz. Caliber: .44 Russian
Mod. No. NMR044 - $882.00 (FFL Required)








http://www.navyarms.com/html/top_break_rev.html

This is what was on Dixie's website.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/produc...11458&osCsid=dcedf1feb1cfb86dced0e9e84598b6f2
CR0644 Dixie/Uberti No. 3 New Model Russian Revolver $925.00

Click to enlarge

Contracted for the Russian government in 1887, the New Model Russian was chambered for the robust and accurate .44 S&W Russian cartridge – the ancestor of the .44 Special and .44 Magnum loads. Two piece European walnut grips with satin finish. Steel frame. Barrel is a .44 S&W Russian, 6 ½”, blued, round and rifled. Front sight is a silver blade and rear sight – notch on top break release. Ignition is .44 S&W Russian black powder cartridge (or) factory loaded ammo. Features color casehardened hammer, top break catch and triggerguard w/spur. Cyrillic barrel stampings, lanyard ring in butt. 12” overall and weighs 2 ½ pounds. Manufactured in Italy by Uberti. MODERN GUN RULES APPLY. THIS PRODUCT CANNOT BE SHIPPED TO NEW JERSEY OR CANADA.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

This revolver is made by Uberti and imported and sold by Navy Arms.

I have the very similar Schofield model, and it is a well made and well finished gun. Mine is 44-40. The front sight was too high and required filing it down about a quarter of an inch. It is not tremendously accurate. In fact, for a gun with such a long barrel it is pretty inaccurate, I would say it is doing well if I can get a 3 inch group at 50 feet.

It is a very fun gun to shoot, and I have enjoyed mine a lot, even with its shortcomings.

 

[Father Knows Best]

I have the very similar Schofield model, and it is a well made and well finished gun. Mine is 44-40. The front sight was too high and required filing it down about a quarter of an inch. It is not tremendously accurate. In fact, for a gun with such a long barrel it is pretty inaccurate, I would say it is doing well if I can get a 3 inch group at 50 feet.

Have you slugged your bore? Uberti is notorious for putting overly large barrels on their 44-40 revolvers. Every one I have slugged (half a dozen now) has measured .4295 +/- .0005 in the grooves. That's .44 Russian/Special/Magnum size, not 44-40 size. I suspect Uberti does that so they don't have to stock both sizes -- just slap one size on all "44's." Unfortunately, factory 44-40 ammo typically has a .426 (or sometimes .427) bullet. I've seen some factory 44-40 ammo with bullets as small as .425. You're never going to get stellar accuracy shooting .426 bullets down a .429/.430 bore.

There are other reasons that the .44-40 revolvers tend to be inaccurate. Uberti 44-40 throats are also typically too large (.430-.431 on the ones I've measured). Moreover, the .44-40 is a large capacity case, and velocities can be inconsistent with smokeless powder because of variances in powder positioning within the case. Accuracy tends to improve a lot with black powder. If you chambers will accept them, you could also try loading larger 44 special size bullets (.430) cast of soft lead, and see if that improves accuracy (it usually does). Unfortunately, many people find that cartridges loaded with .430 bullets won't fully seat in Uberti 44-40 chambers. I have taken to opening the neck of the chambers by .002 to solve this problem, via a custom chamber reamer from Dave Manson.

These factors should not affect the .44 Russian revolver being discussed. It's a much smaller case, and the proper bore and throat dimensions are .4295 and .4305, respectively, which Uberti seems to use on all of its ".44" cartridge revolvers.

 

[gopguy]

In looking around the net, researching these beasts, I did read somewhere that Uberti did not put the gas ring on the #3 Smith copies. Hence they bind up quick with black powder loads...Something to keep in mind.

 

[Father Knows Best]

In looking around the net, researching these beasts, I did read somewhere that Uberti did not put the gas ring on the #3 Smith copies. Hence they bind up quick with black powder loads...Something to keep in mind.

That is true at least of the Schofield replicas in .45 Colt and .44-40. If you know the history of these guns, you know that they were never chambered by Smith & Wesson "back in the day" for those cartridges, because the cylinder was too short to hold them. Instead, S&W offered the #3 in .44 Russian, .44 American (predecessor to the Russian), .45 S&W (Schofield) and perhaps some other short cartridges.

Uberti decided to make them in .45 Colt and .44-40, presumably because these longer cartridges are much more popular, especially among the cowboy action crowd. To make them fit, Uberti had to lengthen the cylinder. The only way to lengthen the cylinder without lengthening the frame is to eliminate the gas ring.

I don't know whether the same is true on the Russian model, as it is chambered only for the .44 Russian cartridge. If Uberti did it right, they made the cylinder a little shorter and incorporated the gas ring. I don't know whether they did or not.

Incidentally, this issue isn't unique to the Uberti S&W replicas. I've owned a half dozen Uberti "1875 Army" models (replicas of the Remington 1875 New Model Army) in 44-40 over the years. I discovered that those made in the 1970s and early 1980s had shorter cylinders and gas rings, but more recent models have longer cylinders and no gas rings. The result is that older models work fine with black powder, but you need to be careful to keep your cartridges under 1.592" OAL or they may protrude from the cylinder and jam against the rear face of barrel. The newer models are not as sensitive to cartridge OAL, but will bind up tight with black powder.

 

[gopguy]

Picked her up this evening. Very impressed with it. The Cyrillic script on top of the barrel is neat......however it is different than what was on the originals. I have Edward Ezell's book "Handguns of the World ,Military Revolvers and Self-loaders from 1870-1945" page 122 has a picture of the inscriptions of the guns made in the US by Smith and Wesson, Ludwig Lowe in Germany and at the Tula Arsenal in Russia....none match what Uberti put on the top rib of the revolvers....hmmm. I will have to research this. The finger extention does seem to have a seam.....so it probably was welded on. Case hardening on the trigger guard, front sight,hammer etc...very nice. It was too dark to shoot when I got home, too cold.lol. I will give a report after blasting some targets. It does not have the gas ring either....so I will stick to smokeless loads. It looks like the cylinder is almost long enough for the .44 special cartridge....pity they did not bore it out for that. You would have more options. And for those who don't reload it would be easier to feed. .44 Russian is a bit scarce. I only saw one box on a table at the show and it was $25+change with tax out the door. I must say I am very pleased with my purchase, just on looks alone. Beautiful. I will post again after shooting her.

 

[Father Knows Best]

If you want to shoot .44 special out of it, then just have the chambers reamed out. Any gunsmith could do it for you cheaply, or you could buy a .44 special chamber reamer yourself and do it.

Personally, my plan would be a little different. I shoot black powder cartridge, and I reload. In fact, I reload a lot of .44 Russian, already. What I would do is have 0.200" machined off the cylinder faces, which would create the gas ring. Then have the barrel set back by an equal amount, and you're ready to shoot authentic .44 Russian black powder cartridges!