Seeking real chronograph results for H110 357 mag loads

Status
Not open for further replies.
NoirFan

NoirFan

Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
671
Hello all, just a request for information here since I don’t own a chronograph. I’m just curious what kind of velocities we get in the real world when loading 357 mag with H110, especially in 158gr bullet weight.

I currently load 16gr powder with a Rainer plated 158gr bullet and magnum primer which is right in the middle of Hodgdon published data. Shooting from a 4” Security Six. I’m not trying to create anything super hot, just trying to ballpark the velocities I’m currently getting.

Thanks
 
A plated 158 grain bullet should be loaded with cast bullet data. Plated bullets are not jacketed. Your 16 grains is .7 under max for a jacketed bullet. And for who knows why, Hodgdon's site data is with a 10" barrel. Kind of useless for velocity numbers. H110 isn't a cast bullet powder either.
Ballistics by the Inch only tested jacketed bullets too. They got 1246 FPS with a 4" Smith 686.
 
Not to stray from the High Road, but......
A plated 158 grain bullet should be loaded with cast bullet data
Click to expand...
No, again, and again.....sigh....
In all my experience plated loads tend to fall somewhere between lead and jacketed.
Plated bullets are not jacketed and they are not the same as lead bullets either.

Where they fall depends on the plated bullet, all plated bullets are not the same.
Some have harder cores, some have thicker plating, some have slightly larger diameters than others.
For example in 9mm some plated are .355, some are .356, some are .3565, makes a difference charge wise.


H110 isn't a cast bullet powder either.
Click to expand...
I use H110 under cast bullets, 158 SWCs. Lots of other people do as well.
I don't remember ever reading anywhere that H110 could not be used with cast bullets.
Lyman 50 as well as others list data for it. (4 cast bullet loads in .357 with H110 in Lyman 50)
For example
155gr cast bullet # 358156
H110 start 15.0gr Start Vel 1310 MAX 15.7 MAX Vel 1363

Jacketed 158gr HP
H110 start 16.3 start vel 1178 MAX 17.0 MAX Vel 1309
(note lead is lower charges)
4" barrel in Universal receiver

Older Winchester manual lists
W296 158gr Lead MAX 14.5 vel 1560 barrel length ????

I don't have that bullet but next time I make a range trip I will try to get some numbers from my 4" .357 for you with a different 158gr plated bullet, but of course all guns are different and with the different bullet my vel could easily be 100fps different than yours with the same charge.
 
Last edited:
In my 4.2" sp101 a 140 grain xtp on 18 grains gets me right at 1300. A 125 xtp on 21.5 grains gets just over 1500. Both can go higher but this gave the best accuracy. Interestingly if you do the math the 125 is much more energetic.
 
Sunray said:
A plated 158 grain bullet should be loaded with cast bullet data. Plated bullets are not jacketed. .
Click to expand...

.........From the Rainier website's FAQs.
Rainier recommends using commercially published jacketed bullet load data when loading our projectiles. There is no need for adjustment when using jacketed bullet load data. Our bullets are completely encapsulated in copper, creating a “Total Copper Jacket” (TCJ) through a specialized electroplating process, and are softer than traditionally jacketed bullets.

We recommend a starting powder charge between the listed minimum and maximum load found in various published and reputable reloading manuals.
Click to expand...
 
I am really glad to see someone bring up that Rainier recommends using jacketed data. I use both Berry's and Rainier plated bullets and have no problems loading them with jacketed load data. Never have any signs of excess pressure.
 
Thanks for the numbers everyone! I'd appreciate any more that people have, just out of curiosity.

As far as plated loading data, I was under the impression that for a given bullet weight and powder charge, the pressure goes: lead/coated < plated < jacketed.

Therefore, if a charge is published in a manual for a jacketed bullet, it's safe to use for both lead and plated (of course there may be other bad side effects like leading and plate stripping). Isn't that generally correct? That's why I'm using Hodgdon data for the XTP bullet for my Rainiers.
 
Therefore, if a charge is published in a manual for a jacketed bullet, it's safe to use for both lead and plated
Click to expand...

Generally the other way around
Lead loads are usually lighter than jacketed for the same weight bullet, Not always but usually.
Lead-lowest, plated-middle, Jacketed-high with low middle and high just used for comparison.
so lead load is ok in plated and jacketed
Plated load ok in jacketed,
Lead loads are usually lighter than jacketed for the same weight bullet, Not always but usually.
This is a very broad general assumption, not a rule
 
Last edited:
Except for some starting lead loads, which won't have enough oomph for a plated or jacketed that have more friction and take more pressure to get out of the barrel.
Click to expand...
ooppssss
Excellent point, didn't think about that case. :oops:
 
16.6gn 296/H110 is right on 1274 fps in a 4 inch ported 686. Win cases, Fed SPM primers, Rem 158gn JHP..

15.8gn 296 gives me1164 fps in a K frame 4 inch S&W 65-3. Win cases, Win SPM, Sierra 158gn JHP.
 
Walkalong said:
Except for some starting lead loads, which won't have enough oomph for a plated or jacketed that have more friction and take more pressure to get out of the barrel.
Click to expand...
It's fairly common to see lead and jacketed loads for a given bullet weight and powder where the roughly 10% lighter charge in the lead load produces the same pressure as the heavier charge with a jacketed bullet. If it were simply a friction effect I would think more powder + more friction would have to produce more pressure.

I'm thinking the lead data is lighter because you have a greater degree of base obturation in a well-executed lead load which creates a tighter seal to the bore, trapping more pressure behind the bullet for a given charge. While I'm sure the friction varies, working backwards from the published load data indicates to me that it must be a rather smaller factor than bore sealing.
 
Dunno, but I have played a lot with plated and very light "lower lead data" type loads, testing them powder forward away from the primer as well as powder back against the primer, and I have stuck a few in the bore.

A lot of lead data isn't stopped at max because of pressure.
 
Here is "real world" data with a number of powders and W296. H110 and W296 are the same powders, the only differences between them are lot to lot variances. These variances allowed the powder manufacturer's and in print gun writer's to claim for decades there was a difference between the two, but now we know better.

In my experience, plated bullets go a bit slower than cast with the same powder charge.

Code: 
Smith & Wesson M27-2    

158 LSWC 13.5grs 2400 R-P cases CCI primers                                                             

9-Oct-05  T = 64 °F         

Ave Vel =1273                                                                                               
Std Dev =44.03                                                                                             
ES  =176.7                                                                                                     
High  =1372                                                                                                   
Low  =1195                                                                                                     
N =30

158 LSWC  13.5grs 2400 R-P cases Fed 100                                                            

4-Sep-05  T = 80 °F
 
Ave Vel =1245                                                                                   
Std Dev =22.49                                                                                   
ES  =97.26                                                                                           
High  =1285                                                                                         
Low  =1187                                                                                         
N =32

158 JHP (W/W) 13.5 grains 2400 R-P cases WSP                                               
5-Aug-06           T = 103 °F         
  

Ave Vel =1196                                                                                  
Std Dev =26.58                                                                                                           
ES  =87.17                                                                                         
High  =1244                                                                                       
Low  =1157                                                                                         
 N =10                                                                                                 
   
accurate not difficult to extract
                                                                                                                                                

158 LRN   12.0 grs AA#9 CCI500 Mixed cases                                                    
5-Aug-06           T = 104 °F                                                                                         

Ave Vel =1278                                                                                  
Std Dev =34.98                                                                                                           
ES  =117.4                                                               
High  =1344                                                           
Low  =1226                                                                                         
 N =27                                                                                                 

 Accurate little or no leading                                                                                     


158 LRN   12.5 grs AA#9 CCI500 3-D  cases                                                      
5-Aug-06           T = 104 °F

Ave Vel =1348                                                                                  
Std Dev =34.16                                                                                                           
ES  =134.7                                                               
High  =1386                                                                                       
Low  =1251                                                                                         
 N =25                                                                                                 

 Very Accurate sticky extraction no leading                                                           

158 LRN   13.0 grs AA#9 CCI500 3-D cases                                                        
5-Aug-06           T = 104 °F                                                                                         

Ave Vel =1360                                                                                  
Std Dev =33.19                                                                                                           
ES  =109.8                                                               
High  =1393                                                                                       
Low  =1284                                                                                         
N =26
                                                                                             

 Very Accurate sticky extraction no leading                                                           


158 JHP 13.0 grs AA#9 R-P cases WSP                                                                           
  9-Oct-05                               T = 64 °F                                                                                     

Ave Vel =1156                                                 
Std Dev =35.63                                                                                             
ES  =160.6                                                                                                     
High  =1230                                                                                                   
Low  =1069                                                                                                     
N =20                                                                                                               

Very accurate                                                                                                                           


158 JHP (W/W) 14.0 grs AA#9 R-P cases WSP                                                               
  9-Oct-05   T = 64 °F                                                                                     

Ave Vel =1208                                                 
Std Dev =27.65                                               
ES  =89                                                                                                           
High  =1255                                                                                                   
Low  =1166                                                                                                     
N =24                                                                                                               

Very accurate                                                                                                                           


158 LSWC Linotype 12.0 AA#9 Mixed cases CCI500                                        
14 Oct 2008 T =  80 °F  
                                                                                                 

Ave Vel =1217                                                                                  
Std Dev =52                                                                                       
ES =224.9                                                                                         
High =1346                                                                                       
Low =1121                                                                                         
N =29                                                                                                   


158 LSWC Linotype 15.5 W296  Zero Cases CCI500                                        
21 June 2008 T =  85 °F                                                                                           

Ave Vel =1282                                                                                  
Std Dev =35                                                                                       
ES =128.1                                                                                         
High =1325                                                                                       
Low =1197                                                                                         
N =12                                                                                                   

No leading, no extraction issues, heavier recoil than AA#9 load      
   

158 LSWC Linotype 15.5 W296  3D Cases CCI500                                            
14 Oct 2008 T =  80 °F                                                                                               

Ave Vel =1260                                                                                  
Std Dev =34                                                                                       
ES =160.5                                                                                         
High =1315                                                                                       
Low =1154                                                                                         
N=18


158 LRN   9.0 grains Blue Dot CCI500 Midway cases                                        
5-Aug-06           T = 102 °F
  
Ave Vel =1203                                                                                   
Std Dev =29.22                                                                                                           
ES  =120.8                                                               
High  =1261                                                                                       
Low  =1141                                                                                         
 N =22                                                                                                 

Accurate ,difficult extraction, leading                                                                                         


158 LRN   10.0 grains Blue Dot CCI500 Midway cases            
5-Aug-06           T = 102 °F     

Ave Vel =1290                                                                                   
Std Dev =24.91                                                                                                           
ES  =88.15                                                               
High  =1324                                                                                       
Low  =1235                                                                                         
 N =20

v. Accurate, heavy leading


IPF1NO4.jpg


Code: 
 Colt Trooper MKIII 6" Barrel                                                                             



158 gr LRN  3.5 grs Bullseye 38 SPL cases WSP                                         
30-Dec-15                    T = 55 ° F      
                                                                     
Ave Vel =768                                                                                 
StdDev =18                                                                                   
ES  =72.03                                                                                     
High  =798                                                                                     
Low  =725.9                                                                                   
N =18                                                                                               

158 gr LSWC  13.5 grs 2400  R-P cases WSP                                                             
30-Dec-15                    T = 55 ° F                                                                           

Ave Vel =1169                                                                               
Std Dev =33                                                                                   
ES  =176.3                                                                                     
High  =1276                                                                                   
Low  =1100                                                                                     
N =24                                                                                               

158 gr LSWC  Lino  15.5 grs W296  3D cases CCI 500                                 
30-Dec-15                    T = 55 ° F                                                                           
 
Ave Vel =1156                                                                               
Std Dev =53                                                                                   
ES  =203.4                                                                                     
High  =1285                                                                                   
Low  =1081                                                                                     
N =24                                                                                               

158 gr JHP 13.5 grs 2400  R-P cases WSP                                                     
30-Dec-15                    T = 58 ° F                                                                           


Ave Vel =1108                                                                               
Std Dev =18                                                                                   
ES  =49.86                                                                                     
High  =1140                                                                                   
Low  =1090                                                                                     
N =6

VTtDI0h.jpg

C:\Users\brian\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image004.jpg
 
Walkalong said:
Dunno, but I have played a lot with plated and very light "lower lead data" type loads, testing them powder forward away from the primer as well as powder back against the primer, and I have stuck a few in the bore.
Click to expand...
I agree you do need more charge with plated bullets, but I'm thinking that's due primarily to loosing pressure due to a lower level of bore-sealing.
Walkalong said:
A lot of lead data isn't stopped at max because of pressure.
Click to expand...
Agreed. But most of the current data published by the manufacturers runs the lead stuff up to full pressure, at least in calibers like 9mm. There are exceptions of course, but there's plenty of full-pressure lead data out there to correlate against jacketed.
 
Last edited:
If that was the dominant factor it would take a larger charge to generate a given chamber pressure. But it takes a smaller charge, by approximately 10%. A reduction in friction alone would reduce the pressure for a given charge, just like a lighter bullet does. It does not explain the real-world result.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

T
  • Locked
Interesting 357 magnum chrono results
Replies
12
Views
3K
Ben Shepherd
B
Master Blaster
  • Locked
Light or midreange .44 mag load with H110
Replies
12
Views
4K
Mal H
Mal H
J
  • Locked
H110 for .357 Mag
2
Replies
26
Views
6K
FirinFlatTop
F
C Younger
  • Locked
H110 Reduced Loads
2
Replies
34
Views
3K
Blue68f100
Blue68f100
M
  • Locked
.357 Mag loads for Model 19s
Replies
8
Views
1K
MarineTech
M
Back
Top