H110 Reduced Loads

[C Younger]

I’ve recently started loading for a .357mag carbine and am seeing some load data that goes against what I’ve read about H110/296. It has always been my understanding that this powder needs a near full to compressed load for reliable function. With a 158gr bullet Hodgdon lists a starting charge of 15gr and a max of 16.7gr. Speer lists a start of 13.9gr and a max of 15.5gr. Then theres Hornady with their start load of 8.6gr and a max of 15.5gr. Hornady’s pistol data seems more in line with Speer’s with a start load of 12.7.

Have any of you had any experience with these, seemingly, very light .357 loads?

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I have not and there are many powders better suited for light 357 loads.

 

[748]

That's not the powder to try reduced loads in a 357 mag.
You want faster burning stuff like unique.

 

[C Younger]

That's not the powder to try reduced loads in a 357 mag.
You want faster burning stuff like unique.

Why not. If it’ll work, then what’s the problem. I understand there are faster powders that people more frequently use for lighter .357 loads.

 

[forty_caliber]

H110 /W296 requires full pressure to burn cleanly. Reduced load will leave sooty residue.

.40

 

[C Younger]

H110 /W296 requires full pressure to burn cleanly. Reduced load will leave sooty residue.

.40

That makes sense then. I had read about erratic ignition and other issues with reduced H110 loads. So best practice is published by Hodgdon and Speer while what’s possible is published by Hornady.

 

[748]

Why not. If it’ll work, then what’s the problem. I understand there are faster powders that people more frequently use for lighter .357 loads.

I wouldn't recommend going much below "starting load".
When you drop much below 25,000psi in a straight wall case loaded in H110 you get quite a bit of unburned propellant.
H110 likes to be darn near compressed in straight walled cases.

 

[cfullgraf]

I’ve recently started loading for a .357mag carbine and am seeing some load data that goes against what I’ve read about H110/296. It has always been my understanding that this powder needs a near full to compressed load for reliable function. With a 158gr bullet Hodgdon lists a starting charge of 15gr and a max of 16.7gr. Speer lists a start of 13.9gr and a max of 15.5gr. Then theres Hornady with their start load of 8.6gr and a max of 15.5gr. Hornady’s pistol data seems more in line with Speer’s with a start load of 12.7.

Have any of you had any experience with these, seemingly, very light .357 loads?

Generally, 357 Magnum with 158 grain bullets and W296/H110 have tested loads in the 15 tom16 grain area. Tested started loads may be a little less. With the lack of a starting load, the recommendation is to reduce the max load by 5%.

With light loads outside the recommended tested loads, I understand W296/H110 creates erratic pressures and does not play nice.

As others have said there are much better powders available for light loads than W296/H110.

Regardless, the 8.6 load in the quote above is too low or a miss print from the author.

 

[C Younger]

Generally, 357 Magnum with 158 grain bullets and W296/H110 have tested loads in the 15 tom16 grain area. Tested started loads may be a little less. With the lack of a starting load, the recommendation is to reduce the max load by 5%.

With light loads outside the recommended tested loads, I understand W296/H110 creates erratic pressures and does not play nice.

As others have said there are much better powders available for light loads than W296/H110.

Regardless, the 8.6 load in the quote above is too low or a miss print from the author.

I had considered the possibility of a misprint, but their data is incremental making this unlikely: 8.6, 10.1, 11.6, 13.2, 14.7, and 15.5 giving a corresponding velocity for each charge starting at 1200fps and increasing by 100fps for each of the charges listed.

 

[C Younger]

I wouldn't recommend going much below "starting load".
When you drop much below 25,000psi in a straight wall case loaded in H110 you get quite a bit of unburned propellant.
H110 likes to be darn near compressed in straight walled cases.

Who’s starting load?

 

[MEHavey]

Do NOT underload H110/W296.
I repeat -- do NOT underload those powders.

You won't just get "unburned" kernals...
It will spike on you.



... and you wont like the results.


.

 

[243winxb]

Hornady with their start load of 8.6gr

RIFLE data. Closed rifle breech. Not for autos or revolvers. What i found using google.

Would like to see the *RIFLE* data in print, if any one can post a photo? Ty.

HORNADY RIFLE DATA 8.6

 

[cfullgraf]

I had considered the possibility of a misprint, but their data is incremental making this unlikely: 8.6, 10.1, 11.6, 13.2, 14.7, and 15.5 giving a corresponding velocity for each charge starting at 1200fps and increasing by 100fps for each of the charges listed.

I'd be interested to know which Hornady manual you are looking at. The 8th and 10th editions have starting loads around 12 grains of W296 for 158 grain jacketed bullets.

 

[murf]

that load data is in the 8th edition of the hornady manual. h110 shows a 8.6 grain starting load for 158-160 grain bullets (xtp). but, the win 296 starting load for the same bullets is 10.2 grains.

h110 and win 296 are the same powder. so, don't use the 8.6 grain starting load. it is wrong and hornady screwed up here. use some other data.

luck,

murf

p.s. this is rifle data, not handgun data.

 

[C Younger]

that load data is in the 8th edition of the hornady manual. h110 shows a 8.6 grain starting load for 158-160 grain bullets (xtp). but, the win 296 starting load for the same bullets is 10.2 grains.

h110 and win 296 are the same powder. so, don't use the 8.6 grain starting load. it is wrong and hornady screwed up here. use some other data.

luck,

murf

p.s. this is rifle data, not handgun data.

I have no intention of downloading to 8.6 gr, however, even if I start at 10.2 gr like their 296 data shows that’s still a reduced charge by 3+ grains according to the other manuals start loads. 13 gr would have been about as low as I would want to try, but that’s still lower than Hodgdon’s minimum. So when I hear “do not reduce H110 loads” but see start loads in one manual well below start loads of another manual, it causes some confusion.

 

[MEHavey]

I've got (and am looking at) Hornady 8th.
There's something drastically wrong w/ their "Rifle" 357Mag data
(page 672)

 

[243winxb]

For comparison, the 300 AAC Blackout has some light H110 powder charges. (Hodgdon.)
The PSI is less then half of full power loads . (subsonic)

Changed photo to show difference in pressures.

 

[murf]

I have no intention of downloading to 8.6 gr, however, even if I start at 10.2 gr like there 296 data shows that’s still a reduced charge by 3+ grains according to the other manuals start loads. 13 gr would have been about as low as I would want to try, but that’s still lower than Hodgdon’s minimum. So when I hear “do not reduce H110 loads” but see start loads in one manual we’ll below start loads of another manual, it causes some confusion.

i'm just making a strong suggestion to you. the rifle data is way out of line with the handgun data. this would not be the first time a reloading manual listed incorrect data. anyway, nice catch and glad common sense has prevailed.

murf

 

[C Younger]

I've got (and am looking at) Hornady 8th.
There's something drastically wrong w/ their "Rifle" 357Mag data
(page 672)

Maybe I’ll email them and see what’s up. I’ve just got the Hornady app, so I only pay for load data I need. If they change it, I’ll probably be updated automatically.

 

[cz shooter]

110 Series powders like vv110,enforcer are full charge load powders. You want a reduced load? Reducing powdercharge is not the magic solution. Never use 110burnrate powders (or slower in reduced capacity. Primer-ignition can start moving your bullet. The volume can get so high that your powder doesn't reach the ignition pressure. In a long barrel (leveraction), your bullet will stop. Reduced loading is wanted at cowboy shooting events/competitions. They use, BA10,trailboss powders and soft bullets like lead cast bullets or better h&n-bullets For leveraction a light 110gr-357bullet from h&n loaded with rs20,AO,BA10 or trailboss does it. only 5gr required. And a light primer. google h&n,vectan AO,etc.

 

[jmorris]

Then theres Hornady with their start load of 8.6gr and a max of 15.5gr.

8.6 seems awful low for a 357 case, speers 38 spl loads have more than that, in a smaller case, shorter OAL...

Then there is the 6.9 grain difference between max an min...that data is wrong. Where did you get it? You should contact them about their mistake.

 

[Walkalong]

Why not.

Because it is a poor choice for downloading with, it wants full pressure to burn clean.

8.6 seems awful low for a 357 case, speers 38 spl loads have more than that, in a smaller case, shorter OAL

Yep, don't know where the OP got that from.

I would suggest AA #9 or 2400 for "reduced" "full power" .357 Mag loads.

The next step down is midrange loads and BE-86 shines there, but Unique and other similar powders will work as well.

 

[MEHavey]

8.6 seems awful low for a 357 case, speers 38 spl loads have more than that, in a smaller case, shorter OAL

Yep, don't know where the OP got that from.

See POST#16 here
He got it directly from the Manual

 

[JJFitch]

Do NOT underload H110/W296.
I repeat -- do NOT underload those powders.

You won't just get "unburned" kernals...
It will spike on you.

View attachment 946461

... and you wont like the results.


.

This thread is off the rails!

You are absolutely correct when the powder manufacturer say do not reduce powder charge they mean it! And it's not about soot or unburned powder flakes or residue!

25-30 years ago there was an article in one of the gun/reloading magazines that went into great detail regarding explosions with MAGNUM POWDERS that were due to reduced charge weights! When a powder manufacturer does their due diligence in testing and posts warnings only a fool will ignore those warnings.

The same goes for experimenting with unpublished recipes. If a powder manufacturer doesn't list a load for a particular cartridge and bullet combination it's because of poor performance or even worse erratic pressure spikes. If a powder has a narrow range of recommended powder weights like WST it would be wise to contact the manufacturer before experimenting.

Guns can be replaced but body parts, not so much!

Smiles,

 

[2ndtimer]

If I recall correctly, long ago, Olin supplied loading data for W-296 powder for the 158 gr bullet in .357 Magnum and stated “16.6 gr. DO NOT REDUCE. Use exactly as shown with a magnum primer and heavy crimp.“ (That might have been 40 years ago.). Since then, some manuals have reduced their maximum loads for H-110/W296, but I have always loaded the 158 gr jacketed bullets at 16.0 to 16.5 gr and have never encountered any issues. Shoots clean, consistent and accurate.
If you want a slightly reduced load, I concur with the Accurate No. 9 suggestion. If you want a strong mid range load, I like Power Pistol at 8.0 to 8.5 gr. My current favorite strong mid range load is a 170 gr cast SWC with 7.9 gr of Power Pistol, good for around 1200 FPS out of my 6” GP-100.