AR Scope of choice?

Uh. The best? You know that's not going to get you an answer, right?

And which base is preferred? Preferred by whom? Me? Some other guy?

There's a thread on Arf that lists a long-running review of lots and lots of scopes that fit the general description of what you're asking.
The sky's the limit on how much you want to spend. And on how much magnification you think you need to get to 400 yards. (A squirrel at 400 yds, or a deer, or a bad guy, or a barn? What'cha shooting at?)

What's your budget? What features do you feel you need?

No worries. Still don't know what your budget is, though. I take if from your question that you want magnification. The T-1 Aimpoint is well respected as a red-dot optic, and since you mentioned CQB I gather you want to still have a zero- or near-zero-magnification ability.

I recently picked up a Leupold Mark AR 1.5-4x variable with an illuminated green dot, and I put it on an Aero Precision lightweight offset mount. If I remember right the whole package was around $450. I like it fine. Certainly would expect to make it through training classes without any problems at all.

Other options would include the Schmidt & Bender 1-8x24 with illuminated dot. That will give you twice the magnification and nobody would ever be able to say that you didn't go for quality. But it's close to $2,500. To some people that's no big deal. To others that's ridiculous money for something that's going to be used mostly for 100 yd. range plinking and an occasional carbine class.

Swaro z6i or z8i

I have a Vortex 1-6x. It's pretty good. It is dramatically heavier than a smallish red-dot like the Aimpoint, even with the no-QD lightweight Aero mount that I'm using. Like any magnified optic, even when it is on 1x, it is also not quite as forgiving of head position as a red-dot, and necessarily has a bit of the fish-eye.

It's a good scope. It's reasonably priced. I think all of the things I mentioned above are inherent in the format, and not something easily escaped by throwing money at the problem.

I don't know who "KD4" is, or what kind of shooting you'll be doing. If it's mostly close range blasting, then there is no scope that is better than your aimpoint. In open division, where shooters have great latitude in how they set up their gear, most 3 gunners will have both a dot and a scope, because the dot is just always going to be a bit better at the close-range blasting. But the Vortex and other 1-4/1-6/1-8 scopes get you most of the effectiveness of a dot at the expense of some weight, and give you a ton more capability once the distances get long or the targets get small.

IDK if that answers your question, but maybe it's relevant.

There is no such thing as "The Best" just personal preference. I do have a red dot on one of my AR's that is strictly used for home defense and it is the Vortex spitfire Prism in 3X, but I have only taken it out to 200 yds. In all honesty I am not a fan of red dots but I do like this one over the higher priced EOTECH. Very solidly built and very user friendly.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/VORTEX-SPITFIRE-RED-DOT/1783390.uts

Not the "best" but on one of my ARs I'm using a Leupold VX6 1-6X "Multigun" with their FireDot BDC reticle in an American Defense Recon mount.

It's also a CDS dial, so once I developed my coyote load (60 grn Nolser BT @ 2930FPS) I chronographed it and sent the data to Leupold for a CDS dial. I can routinely make hits on a 12x12 plate with it out to 500yards, using either the CDS dial or the reticle holdovers. The glass is very clear, the scope tracks and one great feature, the scope weighs only 14 ounces.



Reticle detail with holdovers to 600y and corrections for 5MPH crosswind:



6 shots on steel at 300:


Chuck

I'm not sure a scope is going to be a good idea for a carbine class. Most of the ones I've seen are pretty up close and personal. I would inquire from the instructor what the maximum range is, and what kind of accuracy they're trying to achieve at those distances. (e.g. is it quick center mass hits at 100-200 yards, or is it aimed head shots at those distances?) If there's a lot of precise distance shooting, or a lot of distance shooting period, I might look for another class. As civilian and law enforcement shooters, we're just not going to be likely to ever need those skills. We tend to run into trouble at less than fifty yards, and your Aimpoint is THE PERFECT optic for that.

If you're going into a carbine class, I would be more concerned about my rifle. What do you have that Aimpoint mounted on? Carbine classes are notorious for destroying guns, so you don't want to go in with a hobbyist level AR, but likewise you don't want to bring your 3k dollar custom job either. Personally, I would opt for an LE6920, as it's cheap and likely to survive, and if it doesn't then you've only lost a 250 dollar barrel. Then bring your other AR as backup just in case. Definitely ask whether they have extra guns on hand, and if they charge extra to use them.

If you think you still need a scope, then I have some general advice, though I couldn't pick one as being the best. First of all, stay away from Vortex, Primary Arms, etc. Second of all, don't settle for 1.5x. Whatever you do, get a true 1x, or you will seriously regret it when shooting at close range. Third thing is pay close attention to weight. The 1-8x scopes especially are monsters. My personal preference is for Trijicon. They're built really well, and the glass is amazing. There are lighter options with better reticles, but they all cost a lot more.

As far as reticles go it really depends on what mag range you opt for. If it's a 1-4x, then second focal plane is perfectly fine, but don't get some complicated reticle because you won't be able to use it. If you get a 1-6x, I would highly recommend a first focal plane, and it's an absolute must if you go for the 1-8x. Even with the 1-6x and 1-8x, though, get the simplest reticle that's available, ideally a straight forward mildot style one without half gaduation hashes. I don't know what the deal is with scope makers trying to cram all this stuff into a reticle that's going into a scope without enough magnification to be able to see it.

On the mount, I do like Bobro. I just don't see the average person needing quick release mounts. I don't really see anyone needing them, unless it's a scope that gets moved around a lot, like you use it for load development or something. My favorite mounts now are SPUHR. They're rock solid, and the 6 screw rings give me peace of mind when mounting a pricy scope. That said, a Leupold non QD cantilever mount is like 150 bucks and it will do the job just fine.

Jimmy Ward said:

The Schmidt & Bender 1-8x24 with illuminated dot is way too rich for me. Thank You all for your sage advice, I really appreciate it.

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You may like this one:

https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=RS24-C-1900006

It's probably the cheapest battle ready 1-4 on the market. Little heavy, not a big fan of the reticle, but the glass is top notch, and that's what's really important with these low power scopes.

Chuck R. said:

Not the "best" but on one of my ARs I'm using a Leupold VX6 1-6X "Multigun" with their FireDot BDC reticle in an American Defense Recon mount.

It's also a CDS dial, so once I developed my coyote load (60 grn Nolser BT @ 2930FPS) I chronographed it and sent the data to Leupold for a CDS dial. I can routinely make hits on a 12x12 plate with it out to 500yards, using either the CDS dial or the reticle holdovers. The glass is very clear, the scope tracks and one great feature, the scope weighs only 14 ounces.

View attachment 768245

Reticle detail with holdovers to 600y and corrections for 5MPH crosswind:

View attachment 768246

6 shots on steel at 300:
View attachment 768247

Chuck

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That is a damn nice scope and pretty much ideal for most things. Much better reticle system than Trijicon, too.

Second of all, don't settle for 1.5x. Whatever you do, get a true 1x, or you will seriously regret it when shooting at close range.

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And that definitely is one opinion! It's always good to have one of those.

Whether or not YOU, Jimmy Ward, would regret -- or even notice -- a 1.5x power setting when shooting at close range none of us can say. (Though grampajack just tried. )

I've had 1.5s, 1.25s, etc. Never even thought about it for a split second on the range. Some folks are apparently not sufficiently evolved so their eyes can handle that, so you might want to see if you can try one before you buy.


It STILL would be good to know about how much you WANT to spend.

Wow, that's a tough call. The thing is, you probably can make those hits with the Aimpoint with a little practice. In field use we tend not to need as much magnification as we think we do.

But if you have time to crank up the magnification, of course it will make you more confident in the shot, though possibly slower.

Sam1911 said:

And that definitely is one opinion! It's always good to have one of those.

Whether or not YOU, Jimmy Ward, would regret -- or even notice -- a 1.5x power setting when shooting at close range none of us can say. (Though grampajack just tried. )

I've had 1.5s, 1.25s, etc. Never even thought about it for a split second on the range. Some folks are apparently not sufficiently evolved so their eyes can handle that, so you might want to see if you can try one before you buy.


It STILL would be good to know about how much you WANT to spend.

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Have you tried shooting with both eyes open at close range (20-50 feet)? It screws with me, and everyone I've ever talked to. I've also never seen anyone beat the timer when comparing 1x to 1.5x at close range. I'm not saying it's something you couldn't get used to and learn to compensate for, but it's a definite handicap. Even a true 1x compared to a red dot is a handicap unless you just happen to be shooing in the sweet spot where it really is truly 1x. At most ranges there's some distortion even with the best 1x variables. But the handicap from a true 1x is minimal compared to a 1.5x, or even a 1.25x.

Jimmy Ward said:

Kyle Defoor Carbine Course. A lot of heads shots 2 X 31/2" box at 100yrds. It seems crazy I buy a BCM extreme lightweight rifle and now I'm going to put a heavy scope and mount on it. Go figure, maybe I should just stick with the Aimpoint T-1 and be done with it. Let's say $1,200 with mount.

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I would personally need magnification for that. At least your rifle is good to go, and it sounds like this course is more focused on precision than high volume, so your barrel will probably come out unscathed whatever it is. You might be able to get by with just a magnifier, which you can generally find used online for much less than your budget. The weight would probably come pretty close to any given 1x variable setup, and the transition would probably be about the same. I would just ask the instructor what they recommend and go with that, assuming you don't have any special needs due to vision impairment or something.

I really like my Nikon P223 with Nikon P series mount.
It is a fixed 3x BDC.

this 400yd coyote can vouch for it too.

Have you tried shooting with both eyes open at close range (20-50 feet)?

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Yeah. I've never noticed it when going fast.

Hoser said:

Inside 150 yards, a dot can run with just about anything magnified.

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That would depend on the tgt size....wouldn't it??

I've run a RDS and a 1-4X in carbine classes as well as matches. I ran my Colt LE 6920 in a 2 day class this spring switching between an RDS and a 1-4 Vortex PST with zero issues (both with QD mounts). IMHO, once used to it, an RDS really isn't that much faster than a variable at 1X. The RDS comes into it's own when you can't get a good check weld and shooting in odd positions, but the "on-demand" magnification adds some versatility.

Chuck

Chuck R. said:

That would depend on the tgt size....wouldn't it??

I've run a RDS and a 1-4X in carbine classes as well as matches. I ran my Colt LE 6920 in a 2 day class this spring switching between an RDS and a 1-4 Vortex PST with zero issues (both with QD mounts). IMHO, once used to it, an RDS really isn't that much faster than a variable at 1X. The RDS comes into it's own when you can't get a good check weld and shooting in odd positions, but the "on-demand" magnification adds some versatility.

Chuck

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Yea, even my micro red dots have a bigger eye box than my 1x variables, including one that's only a 10mm tube. If not for that, besides weight, I would have no reason to prefer a red dot over a 1x variable. That assumes the 1x in question has an intelligently designed reticle, which few of them really do. The only one that's really on the ball is the S&B short dot, but there are some other decent ones, especially in the 1-4s. Getting a nice reticle system in the 1-6s and 1-8s is very pricy for some reason.

I've shot a dot at 100 and it is definitely acceptable, but you might not be able to stack every shot in a 2 x 3 1/2" target. At closer ranges though, its all anyone needs.

I tried the Mark AR 1 x4 that Sam mentioned. It worked, but I was disappointed with the optical quality. If I remember, I paid $249 for the scope and $90 for my AP mount.

I recently replaced it with a Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25 x 4. Much better optically, fire dot reticle too. Optics Planet has a bundle deal with the scope and mount for $640. They often offer other discounts on top of that, if you can wait.

Jimmy Ward said:

maybe I should just stick with the Aimpoint T-1 and be done with it.

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I'd do just that. Take the course and see how it goes. I've shot in a couple of the NRA Americas Rifle matches with a dot and liked it. I suspect that a carbine course might have a lot of the same style of shooting.

I've long been a fan of Leupolds for their excellent reliability over the decades. Something like a 1-4x magnification favors quickness on the shorter range stuff when set at 1x while you can turn it up to 4x for the longer range work. A 2-7x will likely be a little slower on the short range stuff and allow more precision at longer ranges. But these tradeoffs (and reticle issues) often come down to personal preferences and how good your eyes are at short vs. long range and with a bigger or smaller or lighted reticle, etc.

The events my friends and family tend to participate in have most of the shots fired under 25 yards, so a 1x setting and a big reticle is favored. Less than 10% of shots are over 50 yards. But swap that for an event with most of the shots past 200 yards, and most are wishing for higher magnification, especially those with older eyes. Choices also depend on whether the event scoring favors speed or accuracy.