X-Treme 9mm 115 HP journey

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mmorris

mmorris

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I am trying to find a W231 load for my Ruger P95DC and X-Treme 115 HP plated bullets.

I have loaded 4.2, 4.3, 4.4, 4.5, & 4.6 at 1.050 OAL, mixed brass & CCI 500 primers.

4.2 & 4.3 make it a single shot.

Using a rest, targets for 4.4, 4.5, & 4.6 look a lot like I used a shotgun.

I used Sierra 5th Ed., p. 736 (JHP) and http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol (LRN) as a starting point.

I think these are too low, and I'm going to try 4.8, 4.9, 5.0 & 5.1 next.

Any objections? :)
 
Any idea what velocities you got with the loads that you have tried?
 
Well, that’s a bit of a problem. I chrono everything, but before I transcribed it permanently I had to drop and run for family crisis. Short answer: no :(
 
mmorris said:
Well, that’s a bit of a problem. I chrono everything, but before I transcribed it permanently I had to drop and run for family crisis. Short answer: no :(
Click to expand...

This was the last reloading session I had from July 2017, and I am anxious to get back to it. :)
 
Thanks for the info, Walkalong. As soon as my fingers thaw I'll try again. Be a shame to learn I can't use W231... got a lot of it :)
I also have a bunch of other powders, but not as much as the 231.

Maybe I'll give that old can of 3N37 a try :)
 
N320 would be the ticket for a light plated 9MM load. Although I am surprised you haven't had success with W-231. Maybe it was just too low so far.
 
I load this projectile with Titegroup, have not tried 231. But to the best I can determine it will clear in essentially any gun at an OAL of ~1.08". Are you sure you need to go as short as 1.05"?
 
I have been loading the X-Treme 124 Gr HP @ 1.060 OAL, and it is kind of short, but it ran 100% in my guns, was very accurate, so I haven't changed.

I agree that 1.050 is pretty short and there is more to go longer.
 
It's been 6 months since I worked on this load, or any load for that matter, so I better start from scratch and re-establish the oal for this bullet.

I don't remember what made me decide on 1.050, because this pistol (Ruger P95DC) won't move this bullet back at all in a test round chambered at 1.125. Feeds OK too so it wasn't the gun ;)

My Sierra 5th Ed., p. 736 specifies 1.050... maybe I just went with that :)
 
I don't know if things will be better at a longer OAL or just different. Maybe your gun likes 'em short. My experiments show the 115HP chambers in a SAAMI-minimum chamber at 1.075-1.080" (their noses could be more uniform), and if you have some leade you can go a little longer. I've been loading at 1.080" for the sake of compatibility across multiple chambers.

Probably the most important thing to realize is at 1.05" you are seating this projectile pretty deep, so you would probably want to back off of the published jacketed max a few tenths of a grain to stay within 35,000psi. I'd recommend trying 1.080" and running a fresh ladder using the published 231 jacketed load data as a reference and re-evaluate.
 
Walkalong said:
I have been loading the X-Treme 124 Gr HP @ 1.060 OAL, and it is kind of short, but it ran 100% in my guns, was very accurate, so I haven't changed.

I agree that 1.050 is pretty short and there is more to go longer.
Click to expand...
I've not tried the 124HP, but I have numbers of the 115 and 135gr. versions. The noses of them are the same and they both chamber in SAAMI min. chambers at ~1.080". Sounds like all their HPs use the same nose geometry.
 
It could be because 1.050 seats the bullet at the start of the taper.

I had a lot of trouble with the X-Treme 45-185-FP if any of the straight side stuck out past the case mouth. My SR45 didn’t like that at all.

Gun shy, so to speak :)

With the loads I tried already looking to be too light, it seems that 1.050 doesn’t result in too small a case volume. Am I thinking about this correctly?
DF593169-465A-406C-B0CD-BDEA1474623B.jpeg
 
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OP said 115s I believe.
HP38(231) shoots well for me in 9mm with 100s and 124s so I would think you could find a decent load for 115s but you can never tell, sometimes you just need to wait for the planets to line up correctly;).

some data (you probably have it already)
Dia OAL Start MAX
Hodgdon Data
115 GR LRN Winchester 231 .356" 1.100" 4.3 1079 28,400 CUP 4.8 1135 32,000 CUP
115 GR GDHP Winchester 231 .355" 1.125" 4.7 1075 25,300 CUP 5.1 1167 28,100 CUP

Lyman
115 GR XTP HP Winchester 231 ???" 1.09" 3.5 959 20,600 CUP 4.9 1253 32,100 CUP
(3.5 seems way low, would have to check my notes but I seem to recall it took 3.7-3.8 to get function with a 124 in my gun)

Older Winchester Manual
115 GR. FMJ Winchester 231 ???" ???" 4.4 1045 25,900 CUP 4.9 1135 32,600 CUP
115 GR. JHP Winchester 231 ???" ???" 4.3 1010 25,800 CUP 4.8 1120 32,100 CUP
 
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It can get the diameter at the case mouth too small. I always make sure the ogive is completely out of the case, and it may be, can't tell for sure from the pic.
 
8CACECAD-85D2-48AB-BA23-3C0E31B13656.jpeg B143EBDF-9B6E-40EC-8A74-1A9FD8BB460D.jpeg B1B652BC-F59F-4281-9C09-6910390B1772.jpeg
Here we go:
1.070 oal
No change in oal with 20+ pounds of force pushing the bullet into the case.
Freely fits the case gauge.
Feeds and ejects fine with no oal change.
"M" die.
Seat and crimp in one step.
Crimp measures 0.380
Noticeable bullet waistband but plating looks intact.

Maybe I should put a primer in the hole and some powder under the bullet ;)
Or maybe not :(
 
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You are over crimping. All the taper "crimp" needs to do is to remove the bell on the shortest cases, which means the longer ones will get a hair of inward movement, maybe .001.
 
mmorris said:
Using a rest, targets for 4.4, 4.5, & 4.6 look a lot like I used a shotgun.
Click to expand...
Do you have a picture of your grouping that looks like a shotgun grouping? I don't have any experience with W231 and the Xtreme 115gr HP bullet, but I think Walkalong is probably on the right path questioning the crimping. The only times I have seen really bad groupings were when I started reloading and over crimped some plated bullets, or when I exceed some recommended plated bullet velocities.

Try doing the seating and crimping in two separate steps until you are sure you have you taper crimp just right. Another suggestion is to try and use similar length cases that will allow for a more precise crimp.
 
F3841668-2FD2-4D35-828F-CE68A0F86227.jpeg FC2AFAED-6DC4-46FA-B626-9A3D165ED508.jpeg 4E0E0D1B-D422-4BA6-AB28-598AA76BA31B.jpeg 3CC2D10C-6DC2-4069-91D7-6E7A90A33F32.jpeg
OK
I don’t know what happened (well I do too), but my crimp measurement was definitely not 0.380.
Instead of chasing that rabbit, I think I’ll just post pictures of the readings on my micrometer and dial indicator.
Unless I’ve gone totally stupid, they show 0.377, which I thought was too small. However, pulling the bullet shows no damage, and at 1.080 oal it doesn’t move at all when I apply a measured 30 pounds of pressure on the bathroom scale.

Walkalong, how many times do you have to tell me crimping does not help with neck tension :) I backed the M die out and neck tension seemed to magically return.

I forgot to check feed and ejection at 1.080 but I will. I don’t think it will be a problem.

Am I finally on the right track?
 
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