Hypothetical handgun

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Taylor Jarrell

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With so many revolver companies considering branching into revolvers that fire from bottom of the cylinder like the Rhino due to it's affect on felt recoil, do you think the same could be done with a semi auto? Think semi auto pistol frame with barrel on the bottom, recoil spring on top, and a bottom or lower side ejector.
 
Taylor Jarrell said:
With so many revolver companies considering branching into revolvers that fire from bottom of the cylinder like the Rhino due to it's affect on felt recoil, do you think the same could be done with a semi auto? Think semi auto pistol frame with barrel on the bottom, recoil spring on top, and a bottom or lower side ejector.
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That has been done already, look at some of the early European autos.
 
Sure.

The Browning 1900 and all of its copycats worked like that, and more recently the Heizer Defense PKO-45.

The hard part is lockup. All of those pistols are blowback. The mechanism doesn't really seem compatible with a traditional Browning tilt barrel lockup.

You'd need something else. I think a rotating barrel would be pretty cool.
 
CZs, Glocks, I'm sure others already have a very low bore axis; you aren't going to get any better recoil control by going lower, and you are going to have some downsides like sight-over-bore issues at close range.
 
I'd rather see a true recoil compensation system. Current recoil "reduction" is either with soft grips or porting, which reduces snap instead of recoil (and not very well).

To really reduce recoil some gas should be tapped off near the cartridge itself and piped to the front of the gun where it could be blasted out of some nozzles (not just holes) at about a 45 degree angle back.

You wouldn't want to get your hand near the muzzle of the gun where these nozzles are but then again, you wouldn't want your hand to get near the forward part of the cylinder on a revolver.

With active recoil reduction you could pack a real heavy hitter (.44 mag) into a lightweight carryable gun and not break your wrist shooting it.
 
By the way, this system cannot reduce recoil. It reduces muzzle flip since the recoil is mostly straight back instead of rotating upward.
 
Problem in an automatic is that, you need to have the bore axis above the magazine.
This tends to place the trigger under that area, and the recoil spring ahead of the trigger. Hard to get any of that lower than it already is (the Hudson being an interesting take on this).

That is unless you wanted to explore putting the entire action ahead of the hand--a sort of "D" style grip, as it were. But, that would introduce all sorts of odd ergodynamics.

Interesting idea, though.
 
Taylor Jarrell said:
With so many revolver companies considering branching into revolvers that fire from bottom of the cylinder like the Rhino due to it's affect on felt recoil, do you think the same could be done with a semi auto? Think semi auto pistol frame with barrel on the bottom, recoil spring on top, and a bottom or lower side ejector.
Click to expand...

Like who? I haven't heard of a one, and there was no indication of such interest at shot. Seems like wild speculation to me. With the Rhino's sales, I don't think we'll see a copycat.

As for semi-autos, there's a limiting factor you just can't get around; the slide has to come back. I suppose if one opted for the awkward, clunky, unreliable toggle mechanism of Luger or Borchardt type designs, but the list of drawbacks would be a mile long, far outstripping any gains made with the "extra low bore axis"

Flechette said:
I'd rather see a true recoil compensation system. Current recoil "reduction" is either with soft grips or porting, which reduces snap instead of recoil (and not very well).

To really reduce recoil some gas should be tapped off near the cartridge itself and piped to the front of the gun where it could be blasted out of some nozzles (not just holes) at about a 45 degree angle back.

You wouldn't want to get your hand near the muzzle of the gun where these nozzles are but then again, you wouldn't want your hand to get near the forward part of the cylinder on a revolver.

With active recoil reduction you could pack a real heavy hitter (.44 mag) into a lightweight carryable gun and not break your wrist shooting it.
Click to expand...

Have you ever fired a gun that had a brake with rearward angled ports? I'm guessing not, since you think it's a good idea.
 
If you had a heavy slug that gas pressure on firing would drive rearward...you could theoretically cancel out much of the instantaneous recoil but such a system would have its drawbacks. First...you add considerable mass to the gun and most likely this would be out toward the muzzle making it front heavy. Second you need another spring (or hydraulics) to return this mass to pre-firing position and depending on how quickly this is done it would either make you wait for that second shot of a pair or add another rearward push as it shoves it back home. This merely spreads out the recoil you experience so it's up to you....take it all like a man quickly....or spread it out to lessen the impact but increase the duration.
 
Some models have used a recoil spring around the barrel instead of under it but this is problematic with the Browning tilt barrel design.
Due to the laws of physics you can't do much to reduce recoil but you can make it easier to control or change how it feels. When it comes to a concealed carry gun the concept of small and light works directly against the concept of reduced recoil and that's just the way it is
 
If anyone else makes such a pistol I hope they do a better job than Rhino. Mine's been back for warranty twice for poor lockup, off-center and weak strikes, FTF's. I still take it to the range occasionally but I don't consider it a well made piece especially at its price.
 
Sistema1927 said:
I am guessing that it is coiled at the bottom of the grip.
Click to expand...

That is indeed it. The trigger return spring is tucked under the trigger, you can see it extending along just in front of the top of the trigger. The cylinder release latch spring is coiled around a post just under the cocking lever. (Where the hammer spur would be.) The stop 'arm' spring buried under the various arms and levers just behind the trigger.
 
Rodentman said:
If anyone else makes such a pistol I hope they do a better job than Rhino. Mine's been back for warranty twice for poor lockup, off-center and weak strikes, FTF's. I still take it to the range occasionally but I don't consider it a well made piece especially at its price.
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I thought about buying one, once. But I've read far too many horror stories.

Not for me.
 
The HK P7 is a fixed barrel gun format that is very accurate and being heavy, the recoil is very manageable.......
 
RecoilRob said:
If you had a heavy slug that gas pressure on firing would drive rearward...you could theoretically cancel out much of the instantaneous recoil but such a system would have its drawbacks. First...you add considerable mass to the gun and most likely this would be out toward the muzzle making it front heavy. Second you need another spring (or hydraulics) to return this mass to pre-firing position and depending on how quickly this is done it would either make you wait for that second shot of a pair or add another rearward push as it shoves it back home. This merely spreads out the recoil you experience so it's up to you....take it all like a man quickly....or spread it out to lessen the impact but increase the duration.
Click to expand...

That's how the Vector works, except that the reciprocating mass moves up and down in front of the magazine. From what I understand, it doesn't so much reduce the recoil as it provides an extra downward force to pull the barrel back to the point of aim.

They were working on a pistol version for a while but I haven't heard anything about it in a few years.
 
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