Why is Taurus the only high-cap 380 out there?

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Skribs

Skribs

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I was just curious a while back why the .380, which is considered the bottom end of acceptable stopability (with low recoil for an SD round) was only made in pocket pistols, and not full-size. I recently looked on the Taurus site and saw they have a 15-round .380 semi-auto.

This got me curious as to why Taurus is the only company that makes one. I know it probably sounds weird, but I'd rather have a .380 than a 9mm, but at the same time I'd rather have a sharpened toothbrush than a Taurus.
 
The CZ-83 is available as a double stack .380.
Beretta also makes a few versions of their double stack .380.

ETA forgot the Browning BDA, reminded by the thread below this one.
 
I believe it is because in some countries the largest caliber that the citizens are allowed is the .380acp. I hope this helps. God Bless :)
 
I believe it is because in some countries the largest caliber that the citizens are allowed is the .380acp.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Why wouldn't more makers put out high-cap .380s, then?

Thanks for the info on beretta and CZ.
 
Yes, the Beretta holds 13 rounds.

Many 380s are blowback, and don't significantly cut down on recoil because of that. With 380 ammo almost the price of 45 at Wal-Mart, I just can't get myself to buy a 380 again.
 
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_178/products_id/26466 15+1 .380 for you.

Never heard of Bersa till my old man got one of these (albeit not the high-cap)

Once he finished a few boxes of ammo, it's turned out to be smooth and reliable enough that I've been considering the .45 ACP one at my LGS.

Just figured out what it reminds me of... the Star compacts 2 other family members own, different actions, but same snap, and really accurate.
 
There is also the Mauser HSC Super, which is a double stack .380ACP. (Actually made in Italy.)

If I'm not mistaken, ATI offers a double stack .380ACP, which I'd guess is a copy of the Beretta 84.


-Matt
 
Some countries do not allow their subjects to own a firearm in a military chambering. This puts the 9mm Luger on the banned list. They can own a .380 legally, so the pistols offered to us in 9mm are offered in other countries in 380.

Here is the Glock 25.........

http://www.glock.com/english/glock25.htm

It is a way to allow popular pistols into a market that bans 9mm. I don't mean to sound condescending, but why would you want a .380 in a large pistol? The realm of pocket pistols that operate by direct blow back is the reason we have .380 around. I find that most locked breech 9mm pistols have softer recoil than direct blow back .380s anyway. The advantage of the .380 is that it can be chambered in tiny guns. If the gun is large enough to have a locked breech, 9mm is the clear choice.
 
I have an old Grendel P12, 12 shot .380, and it's a pocket gun. :D I don't like the trigger, it's not terribly accurate, either. Just sayin'.....but it is a reliable high cap .380 double stack that's no longer or taller than an LCP, but a little wider. It's 12 ounces unloaded.
 
Skribs said:
VBVAGUY said:
I believe it is because in some countries the largest caliber that the citizens are allowed is the .380acp.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Why wouldn't more makers put out high-cap .380s, then?
Click to expand...

Some do, eg Glock, but they aren't importable due to the ATF points system, which gives fewer points for calibers smaller than 9x19.
 
Skribs said:
I was just curious a while back why the .380, which is considered the bottom end of acceptable stopability (with low recoil for an SD round) was only made in pocket pistols, and not full-size. I recently looked on the Taurus site and saw they have a 15-round .380 semi-auto.

This got me curious as to why Taurus is the only company that makes one. I know it probably sounds weird, but I'd rather have a .380 than a 9mm, but at the same time I'd rather have a sharpened toothbrush than a Taurus.
Click to expand...
It's not, there are others, one such specimen is the CZ83, probablly the very best .380 pistol currently available...I wouldn't even consider the Taurus...
 
Some do, eg Glock, but they aren't importable due to the ATF points system, which gives fewer points for calibers smaller than 9x19.
Click to expand...

That's due to its polymer frame though (and IIRC the striker-fired system - I'm pretty sure hammer-fired guns get more points - stupid, but it's legislation that isn't likely to go away). A steel framed .380 can still make the cut, as evidinced by the Beretta Cougar.

I think for the most part there's just not much market for them. There's a few models out there, but you just don't see very many of them. .380's niche is that you can chamber a REALLY small gun for it. Besides that, it's more expensive than 9x19, the recoil isn't that much less (due to most full-size .380's being blow-backs), and its less powerful. Unless you're looking to fill-out a collection (basically novelty value) or can get the gun at a great price, there's just not much reason from a utilitarian perspective to go with a large .380 vs a comparably sized 9mm.

For something "full-sized" a Beretta Cougar/Browning BDA (or the ATI clone of it) is probably your best bet if you're set on the idea. CZ-83 isn't a bad choice either.
 
Russian Makarov was offered with 12 rd double stack model:
Click to expand...


Yes! They were imported briefly. A friend has one, and an interesting thing they can use single stack Makarov mags just fine. There is a gap on either side, but they work!
 
I understand that Americans are unique to other countries in preferring the largest caliber possible for a given situation. That said, Americans won't really demand much in the way of a hi-capacity .380 since when you get to a gun that size, why not go with 9mm, .40, 10mm, or .45? I think this has something to do with Glock only offering their .380 outside the U.S.?

But yes, in Brazil, where Taurus hails from, .22, .25, .32, and .380 are the vast majority of guns that are available. I have a brother-in-law that spent some time down in southern Brazil, Argentina and he experienced or saw/heard dozens of shootings. He's very familiar with guns and said he never heard anything he thought would be higher than .380.
 
I think this has something to do with Glock only offering their .380 outside the U.S.?
Click to expand...
The .380 ACP Glocks don't make enough points under the GCA of 1968 to be imported. The idea was that junk guns, or Saturday Night Specials were small caliber, and made of cheap materials. Bigger calibers, thumb rest grips, adjustable sights, metal frames, etc. get you more points toward legal import status. That's also why Taurus has to make the TCP here in the US.
But yes, in Brazil, where Taurus hails from, .22, .25, .32, and .380 are the vast majority of guns that are available. I have a brother-in-law that spent some time down in southern Brazil, Argentina and he experienced or saw/heard dozens of shootings. He's very familiar with guns and said he never heard anything he thought would be higher than .380.
Click to expand...
That's because most federal / national governments in the Americas from Mexico south don't allow their citizens to own anything bigger than .380 ACP.

It has nothing to do with the bigger is better culture in the USA, and everything to do with stupid gun legislation almost everywhere on the planet.
 
I believe (as many have chimed in about) that if you look at companies that have a manufacturing base over seas they have many .380 hi-cap offerings.
 
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