Republican Governor of Florida Rick Scott signs landmark anti-gun bill!

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I don't know the reasoning behind the NRA's challenge, which was expected, but I expect that it's at least partly based on the idea that Constitutionally-protected fundamental rights should apply to at least all citizens of "age of adulthood" and that an entire group of adults spanning a three-year age bracket have now been made susceptible to exceptions to that protection.

Imagine the uproar if it was decided that people under 21 could no longer exercise their First Amendment rights except in actual speech and print, and had to wait until 21 to express on more modern outlets such as social media, radio, and TV.
 
MedWheeler said:
I don't know the reasoning behind the NRA's challenge, which was expected, but I expect that it's at least partly based on the idea that Constitutionally-protected fundamental rights should apply to at least all citizens of "age of adulthood" and that an entire group of adults spanning a three-year age bracket have now been made susceptible to exceptions to that protection.

Imagine the uproar if it was decided that people under 21 could no longer exercise their First Amendment rights except in actual speech and print, and had to wait until 21 to express on more modern outlets such as social media, radio, and TV.
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Actually read an article about this before this law and it said that the 21 age would be something that might not pass Constitutional muster. Like you said, how can you vote at 18 but can't purchase a gun?
 
Maybe this will bite the political hacks in the butt. When 18-20 year olds finally realize how they have been screwed maybe they will wake up and start to vote intelligently. Then again probably not, the mighty smart phone will divert their attention.
 
As far as teachers carrying the classroom, what's the deal with not allowing the school to authorize teachers who are solely classroom teachers to carry?

Why are cafeteria workers, coaches, and teachers with additional duties allowed but not classroom teachers?

I read in the news that the particular distinction was the product of some debate, but I'd be curious to know what the reasoning (or lack thereof) was behind that.
 
So at 18yrs old you can vote and die for your country but you can't defend yourself or your home. Brilliant.
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Sure you can, my first rifles and pistols were purchased buy my Father, Mother or signed for by my Grandmother (FFA cheese and sausage sale in jr high, yeah no “gun free zone” back then, she came to my school to pick up the guns) all legal.

At 16 you can operate a deadly weapon at least the insurance rates for teens seems to reflect they can cause lots of damage with automobiles. Sanctuary cities mean there are lots of folks that won’t even need to be scared about violating the laws when the minors give them a few bucks to buy them some beer to go with the cars and if you are in the right States drugs that violate Federal law.

Then again reality doesn’t make the news and for whatever reason people these days want to break, ignore and not enforce existing laws while making new ones that people that are willing to break, ignore the law, won’t follow.

So this will likely make criminals out of folks that would otherwise not be without the new law and it won’t matter much because we can’t lock up criminals for long anyway....

The 911 tapes today make the old “when seconds count, police are only minutes away.” Seem almost like a joke, when you add “and they will come right in after the shooter is done and gone...”
 
MedWheeler said:
I don't know the reasoning behind the NRA's challenge, which was expected, but I expect that it's at least partly based on the idea that Constitutionally-protected fundamental rights should apply to at least all citizens of "age of adulthood" and that an entire group of adults spanning a three-year age bracket have now been made susceptible to exceptions to that protection.

Imagine the uproar if it was decided that people under 21 could no longer exercise their First Amendment rights except in actual speech and print, and had to wait until 21 to express on more modern outlets such as social media, radio, and TV.
Click to expand...

You have to understand that a sizeable number of politicians and judges look upon the Second Amendment as a heavily regulated privilege, and not really a genuine Constitutional right.
 
This might actually backfire on the gun-banners.

I think that the NRA has a very solid case. They will point out that it is unconstitutional for a state to raise the age for a Trial by Jury to 21 for those accused of crimes. It is also unconstitutional for a state to raise the voting age to 21. Same with all the other rights.

But here's the kicker, if/when the courts shoot down the 21 year old age limit for long guns...doesn't that apply to handguns as well?

The gun banners may have inadvertently set up a case where the requirement to be 21 to buy a handgun gets shot down!
 
Flechette said:
The gun banners may have inadvertently set up a case where the requirement to be 21 to buy a handgun gets shot down!
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Probably not, as that would require a change to 18 USC 922, which would require either Congress to act or SCOTUS to rule on a case specifically speaking to the age limitation.

They may have a good case in that near all the CHL laws have some sort of provision for 18 y/o to carry (usually either LE or prior military service).
 
This law will stand.

There are simply too many moneyed, influential leftists here now, many of whom fled the snow, high taxes and urban decay of New York and Chicago....only to bring their failed policies and views with them. The same policies which ruined those areas in the first place. What do they care? Once they've ruined Florida, they will move on to AZ, or TX....they can afford it.

Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of hurricane- displaced Puerto Ricans who have settled here and will never go back. As US citizens and new Florida residents, they can vote HERE now- and they blame Trump and the Republican party for the disaster back home.

Yes, it may be unconstitutional. Yes, it sucks. But the largest voting block here is females over 55....and they just don't care about the gun rights of 18 year olds (or anyone else for that matter) when the ONLY story they see when they turn on their old school TV is dead kids and hysterical, crying demonstrators.

We dodged a bullet here. We might not dodge the next one.
 
CLP said:
The students didn't mobilize squat. Most of these kids are capable of little more than updating their Facebook pages and sending out pictures on Instagram. Many of them don't even have the social skills to look someone in the eye and shake their hand. Gun control groups were the driving force behind these "walkouts" and many of these kids were all too willing to skip a day of class to go "protest".

However, I agree that the major difference between this mass shooting and those before it were the videos that were taken during the shooting. What I find most interesting is that many of those videos were never shown by any of the major news organizations and were mainly viewable on alternative media sites- which seems to indicate that people are, at least in part, increasingly getting information and news from unconventional sources. I watched the videos. I felt terrible for those kids and their families. Like you, I think the laws they passed in Florida will do little in the way of preventing future mass shootings. What concerns me is the consequence of a series of ineffective laws being passed. I'm worried that at some point people will simply come to the conclusion that to prevent future mass shootings certain classes of guns will have to be banned (of course, many already think this). But until the underlying issues are addressed such shootings will continue. They need to be able to add people like this Parkland shooter on the NICS more easily.
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The Federalist website had a couple articles concerning the supposed "grassroots" activism of the students:

http://thefederalist.com/2018/03/01/take-two-weeks-truth-emerge-parkland-students-astroturfing/

http://thefederalist.com/2018/03/05/heres-the-playbook-organizers-are-using-to-take-down-the-nra/
 
I’m just curious as to what happens when the next school shooting takes place by a person who is 18-21 or 21-25. Changing the age will change nothing. The law doesn’t prevent a crime. It only defines what is illegal and who is a criminal. Cruz decided to, and became a criminal, long before he started killing kids and teachers. And when he decided to kill, no “law” was going to stop him. So the failure wasn’t law. The failure was by those who chose not to enforce those laws.
 
OK there is a lawsuit, damage control time:ninja:.

All right Floridians how is it down there. Prior to this law, could a 19 year old legal FL resident buy a long gun in a neighboring state? And if so is that portion of law been changed via this new law. Perhaps it goes like this; It's January 2, 2018, John Doe from 1234 Main St Anytown , FL zipcode 33445566 , went to a neighboring state, and there legally purchased a long gun.


Then simply took it home;)

Also is there an enactment period i.e. 90 days from date of Governor's signature, this is common in many states (outside of emergency bills)

I do not understand the carve outs for CCW and/or hunting license but at least it is available ( I M happy)
 
DoubleMag said:
OK there is a lawsuit, damage control time:ninja:.

All right Floridians how is it down there. Prior to this law, could a 19 year old legal FL resident buy a long gun in a neighboring state? And if so is that portion of law been changed via this new law. Perhaps it goes like this; It's January 2, 2018, John Doe from 1234 Main St Anytown , FL zipcode 33445566 , went to a neighboring state, and there legally purchased a long gun.


Then simply took it home;)

Also is there an enactment period i.e. 90 days from date of Governor's signature, this is common in many states (outside of emergency bills)

I do not understand the carve outs for CCW and/or hunting license but at least it is available ( I M happy)
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It would depend on the laws of the state in which he attempted to purchase the firearm. Under the new legislation, an 18 year old may purchase a long gun in, say, Georgia and return to Florida with it. There is no prohibition against possession- just transfer of ownership within the state. 18-20 year olds may still possess the arms they owned prior to the law.

As far as what practical effect this will have on "school safety?" None at all. Cruz would have found a way to hurt those kids, whether with an illegal gun, homemade bomb, or stolen truck. Evil and immoral people are still evil and immoral no matter what stupid laws you enact, and if they don't fear jail, death, or the back of their momma's hand, then they will do whatever they want- unles they are detected and stopped first.

This monster WAS detected- the Broward Sheriff's Dept. and the FBI have the blood of those kids on their hands too for not stopping him.
 
Hokie_PhD said:
This is why we need electoral colleges in each state for statewide and federal offices. The liberal cities shouldn’t rule.
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That's an idea that won't fly. The entire arc of American history has been toward more democracy. Each person's vote should be equal.

Like it or not, the future of gun rights will be decided in the cities. That's why we have to make gun rights more relevant to city residents, and the way to do that is to stress self defense, and reach out to the law abiding among the racial and ethnic minorities (who after all are the main victims of the thugs). If gun people are seen as exclusively rural and conservative, the cause is doomed.
 
He signed it knowing it would be overturned at some level. I believe he went into this with what he felt was a political obligation to "Get something done". Long term it will get rescinded in the courts.
 
BigBore44 said:
I’m just curious as to what happens when the next school shooting takes place by a person who is 18-21 or 21-25. Changing the age will change nothing. The law doesn’t prevent a crime. It only defines what is illegal and who is a criminal. Cruz decided to, and became a criminal, long before he started killing kids and teachers. And when he decided to kill, no “law” was going to stop him. So the failure wasn’t law. The failure was by those who chose not to enforce those laws.
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This legislation had two points, and they have nothing to do with school safety or preventing crime.

For the Florida progressive leftists, this was an opportunistic attempt to further their social agenda.

For our conservative legislators, this was a effort to maintain our tenuous majorities in the State House and Senate by appealing to the increasingly slim percentage of moderate and independent voters.

Our state, like our nation, is ALREADY engaged in an ideological cold war. This was a costly battle, and a tactical defeat- but absolutely necessary to our continued ability to fight. Rhetoric about holding the line is fine, but if the FL legislature had done nothing, we would lose the war in the next election.

We are outnumbered.
We are outfunded.

But by retreating to the high ground, we can meet the enemy on favorable terms for the next battle.
 
The Republican party owns this legislation, since it controls the Florida legislature and the governorship. And make no mistake, Trump is also responsible, having given a "green light" to his party through his public comments.

This all underlines the fallacy of pinning gun rights to a particular party. The NRA used to have a policy of supporting pro-gun politicians of either party, and we need to go back to that policy. The Republicans now take gun-owner support for granted, and what we see in Florida is the result of that. Republicans no longer fear that we will defect from them.
 
So the government failed at the federal, state, local police and school levels and the result is more government and more rights blocked by the government.

And the republicans passing something that will get blocked is JUST LIKE the police officers standing around the school. Take resposibility and do the right thing guys!
 
Hokie_PhD said:
I've also thought waiting periods were stupid. If I already have a gun why make me wait to buy another one. I can understand waiting for the first one, for an extensive background check, but once that's passed it should be a quick check to see nothing has changed.
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Hokie,

As a well-educated man I am sure you realize that passing a background check does not determine what the persons intent is at the time of the purchase or that peoples attitudes and beliefs change over months and years in the future leading them to commit a violent crime.

Waiting periods are nothing more than a successful anti-gun propaganda that is convincing that people who want to buy a gun are planning to commit a violent crime.
 
The students didn't mobilize squat. Most of these kids are capable of little more than updating their Facebook pages and sending out pictures on Instagram. Many of them don't even have the social skills to look someone in the eye and shake their hand. Gun control groups were the driving force behind these "walkouts" and many of these kids were all too willing to skip a day of class to go "protest".
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You're half wrong about that. The most vocal kids we keep seeing have been active in political advocacy for years, especially gun control advocacy. Many of them are trained actors or debaters, able to project the desired emotion while remaining focused and in control of their argument. That school was a prep school for future political and media operatives. Just as there was an ROTC to prepare kids toward service, there were an oddly high number of kids in political advocacy groups and media internships/etc on hand.

It was a perfect storm of means (training, telegenic students), motive (political/media careers), and opportunity (school/law enforcement intentionally standing by amd allowing dangerous criminals to roam in that school, and a similarly tepid response to tge inevitable violence) for the local event to tap into national advocacy efforts by media groups and astroturf non-profits, and kick the gun control effort into a self-sustaining mode.

I think the various Republican and NRA realized that earlier than the rest of us, and the rapid blitzkrieg of mechanized advocacy is what scared them intonabandoning their posts. It's either that or largescale bribery, since their sudden capitulation is otherwise inexplicable.
 
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