Doublehelix
Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2016
- Messages
- 1,059
New Auto Breech Lock Pro
- Thread starter Rule3
- Start date
- Status
Depends on who I'm with. I can go both ways.This leads me to a standard question I sometimes ask:
Are you a reloader who shoots, or a shooter who reloads
I learned on a single stage and it was much easier to prime off of the press. Got comfortable with it and have no needs for reloading a lot of ammunition in a hurry so I keep doing it. That was aided in part by problems with the Lee press priming systems in the past as they did not work so well as their hand priming tool. I prefer stuff that just works out of the box which is why I never got a loadmaster and until now was considering a SDB Dillon simply for 9mm loading. Now I am considering purchasing this latest lee press thanks to this thread.
wally
Member
It could end up still being pretty efficient if it works the same as on the Auto Breech Lock as it does on the LCT.
Top of stroke, left hand feeds primer, bottom of stroke left had grabs and inserts bullet into case, right hand grabs a new case & repeat. Might keep you as busy as a one legged man at a butt kicking contest, but it could give a very nice production rate for not a lot of money spent on equipment.
I hear you on the Loadmaster...
Priming at the top reduces it to a 4 station press, the reason I bought a Pro 1000.
wally
Member
Extra cost option. It seems about the same design as was used on the Loadmaster, the minimal time saved when the feeder worked was pretty much a wash with the time it took to "shake" the collimator to fill the tubes with cases and rotate a fresh tube into position while reloading. On my Dillion I just dump in 300+ cases and everything is motor driven so it is a net time saver, on the Loadmaster I quickly quit using it -- just put a case on the slider with my right hand as I grabbed a bullet with my left hand
"Extra cost option." As is that motor driven Dillon collimator you use
After reading the most resent posts in this thread, it seems to me and I could be wrong, that the Lee basher blue man group has discovered this thread and are picking away/quoting posts, challenging what's said, and stating/restating any past short comings they have had with a Lee product...
Again, my opinion and I'm more than likely wrong
jmo.
Last edited:
$18 isn't much and it is more a matter of not having to take your right hand off the handle
Last edited:
refuse2bafool
Member
Sorry thomas15, and thanks for being a good sport! There was a jest in there. I spent about 5 minutes hovering over the "Post Reply" button. It was a devil-and-angel-talking-in-opposite-ears thing, and it's obvious which argument I found more persuasive.
In all seriousness though... Why do you care if some of us think the LCT and Pro 1000 are competitive with presses that cost much more? If we are all clueless wackos, then let us be happy clueless wackos.
My LCT has worked perfectly since the day it came out of the box. You can't improve on perfect. My first press was a borrowed T Mag. I found the LCT spent primer catcher and priming system far superior. The RCBS does not look much better than the T Mag. Finally, the auto index feature sets the LCT above the Redding. I could go on with more specifics, but I don't really feel the need to justify it. If they were both the same price I would still buy the LCT.
The biggest LCT complaint seems to be the auto index feature. If you take apart the auto index clamp you will see how the ratchet square rotates the index rod. The square rotates freely on the up stroke and locks in place on the down stroke. It's really clever. The reason some people get 20,000 rounds out of the ratchet and others get a few thousand rounds or less is the because the latter do not understand how it works, and force the press through a cycle instead of backing off a bit to disengage the ratchet. That's operator error. I know people, including my brother, that have 650s and they have their own quirks as well.
Reloading is a wonderfully narcissistic hobby!
We all have different circumstances and needs. I think when we promote one product over another, such advice comes with the implicit disclaimer: " for my purposes".
At the very least we should be specific with both praise and criticism so readers can determine if that particular issue or feature is of concern to them. I don't like case feeders, so telling me a 650 has a great case feeder is like telling me I should buy a particular car because it has a better make-up mirror. I don't use either.
On the other hand, if you have to manually place a primer for each round (with or without the swing set) on this new press, I'll stick with my Pro 1000.
So happy reloading to you, and may all your bullets shoot true!
Last edited:
LiveLife
Member
I am a fan of C-H products (205 single stage, 3 & 4 station "H" type presses, 502 micrometer powder measure) and also a fan of Dillon products (650 with case feeder).
Had my reloading mentor not trained me on both Dillon 550 and Lee Pro 1000, I may have never bought Lee products but I am glad I got to learn on both presses.
I do not look at the new Pro 4000/Auto Breech Lock Pro with disdain rather with optimism as Lee Precision is one of last remaining USA companies (like C-H now CH4D) who still manufactures everything in the USA.
Since John Lee has been president of Lee Precision, he has definitely attempted to meet new and seasoned reloaders' needs and wants. We have asked for 4 station progressive press and Lee delivered! We whined about Pro 1000 being made out of cast base, pesky spent primers that went everywhere with shell plate indexing that needed adjustment and new 2018 Pro 1000 has STEEL base, through-ram spent primer collection, fixed pin through shell plate indexing and rotated die positioning for easier access/viewing of charged cases!
After having spent $110,000 on shooting/reloading items during my lifetime, I am glad I supported USA companies hiring USA workers and glad to be a Lee fan also. I am looking forward to checking out the Pro 4000 and may replace several Pro 1000s set up for dedicated calibers with new 2018 models unless I replace them with Pro 4000s.
2018 Pro 1000 showing steel base, through-ram spent primer collection, rotated die positioning (both resizing and seat/crimp dies face front)
Red circle shows fixed pin through shell plate for no adjustment index of shell plate
Had my reloading mentor not trained me on both Dillon 550 and Lee Pro 1000, I may have never bought Lee products but I am glad I got to learn on both presses.
I do not look at the new Pro 4000/Auto Breech Lock Pro with disdain rather with optimism as Lee Precision is one of last remaining USA companies (like C-H now CH4D) who still manufactures everything in the USA.
Since John Lee has been president of Lee Precision, he has definitely attempted to meet new and seasoned reloaders' needs and wants. We have asked for 4 station progressive press and Lee delivered! We whined about Pro 1000 being made out of cast base, pesky spent primers that went everywhere with shell plate indexing that needed adjustment and new 2018 Pro 1000 has STEEL base, through-ram spent primer collection, fixed pin through shell plate indexing and rotated die positioning for easier access/viewing of charged cases!
After having spent $110,000 on shooting/reloading items during my lifetime, I am glad I supported USA companies hiring USA workers and glad to be a Lee fan also. I am looking forward to checking out the Pro 4000 and may replace several Pro 1000s set up for dedicated calibers with new 2018 models unless I replace them with Pro 4000s.
2018 Pro 1000 showing steel base, through-ram spent primer collection, rotated die positioning (both resizing and seat/crimp dies face front)
Red circle shows fixed pin through shell plate for no adjustment index of shell plate
Attachments
Last edited:
thomas15
Member
Rare moment where Thomas is at a loss for words. But of course I wish the same to you!
wally
Member
"Extra cost option." As is that motor driven Dillon collimator you use
After reading the most resent posts in this thread, it seems to me and I could be wrong, that the Lee basher blue man group has discovered this thread and are picking away/quoting posts, challenging what's said, and stating/restating any past short comings they have had with a Lee product...
Again, my opinion and I'm more than likely wrong
jmo.
I'm not picking it apart, the XL650 case feeder costs a lot more, but it provides a real speed-up of the loading process. Having used the Loadmaster case feeder I'd do without, but if it really is only $18 to buy the option for the Auto Breech Lock Pro its not like its going to break the bank to find out if its worthwhile for your work flow or not. Despite the cost, I'd heartily recommend the case feeder for the XL650, YMMV.
I found shaking the collimator to load the tubes and having to rotate the tubes while reloading negated all the advantage it offered, if each tube held 100 cases I'd likely have a different opinion, but my was only something like 20 .40S&W cases which is what I had my Loadmaster dedicated to while I struggled with it. The Loasmaster as a press was great, if you don't prime on the press it is great. My goal is to only handle a case once for the loading cycle and the Loadmaster priming issues was a show stopper for me. I got a .40S&W "conversion kit" for my XL650, which cost darn near as much as the Loadmaster, and knocked out my 5K of .40S&W bullets in no time compared to all the futzing around I did with the Loadmaster Priming system.
I'm seriously considering the Auto Breech Lock as an upgrade to my LCT, the cost is very bearable, time is money, despite being retired
I'm not picking it apart, the XL650 case feeder costs a lot more, but it provides a real speed-up of the loading process. Having used the Loadmaster case feeder I'd do without, but if it really is only $18 to buy the option for the Auto Breech Lock Pro its not like its going to break the bank to find out if its worthwhile for your work flow or not. Despite the cost, I'd heartily recommend the case feeder for the XL650, YMMV.
I found shaking the collimator to load the tubes and having to rotate the tubes while reloading negated all the advantage it offered, if each tube held 100 cases I'd likely have a different opinion, but my was only something like 20 .40S&W cases which is what I had my Loadmaster dedicated to while I struggled with it. The Loasmaster as a press was great, if you don't prime on the press it is great. My goal is to only handle a case once for the loading cycle and the Loadmaster priming issues was a show stopper for me. I got a .40S&W "conversion kit" for my XL650, which cost darn near as much as the Loadmaster, and knocked out my 5K of .40S&W bullets in no time compared to all the futzing around I did with the Loadmaster Priming system.
I'm seriously considering the Auto Breech Lock as an upgrade to my LCT, the cost is very bearable, time is money, despite being retired
I have issues with inflammatory arthritis so grasping small things like cartridges can be difficult sometimes. Gross motions such as shaking a collimator help or using a bullet feeder help me accomplish tasks when my arthritis is flairing.
"Extra cost option." As is that motor driven Dillon collimator you use
After reading the most resent posts in this thread, it seems to me and I could be wrong, that the Lee basher blue man group has discovered this thread and are picking away/quoting posts, challenging what's said, and stating/restating any past short comings they have had with a Lee product...
Again, my opinion and I'm more than likely wrong
jmo.
I have a Loadmaster set up on my bench next to my Dillon XL650. Both are great presses. Really don’t understand the Lee bashing here and other places on the net. Lee is one of the few examples of getting more than you pay for. And American made. The Perfect Powder measure for example. What’s it cost now? Still about TWENTY BUCKS? With WCF, Titegroup, BLC-2, and other powders of their type, it’s as consistent as a measure 8x the price. I can adjust for 4.8 grains of WCF. Drop ten drops in one go and have 48.0 (tweaked) grains. Consistently! For TWENTY BUCKS! But someone will come along and poo poo on it for being plastic. I appreciate the feel of quality tools as much as anyone. Maybe even more than most. But consistent drops for twenty bucks? No need to poo poo that. The Auto Disk is great, too.
I really like the XL650. The feel of the quality while pulling the handle is worth every penny. Presently need more people in my family to shoot more 9x19 so I can justify loading a few thousand round batches. But the Loadmaster gets the job done, too. Not afraid to set down with a plan to load a thousand round batch of 45acp. The case feeder on the Loadmaster just works. Easiest thing on the press to tune. Don’t understand people having a problem with that. Yeah, it primes on the upstroke. blah blah blah Use the latest primer system from Lee if you need to. The only time it doesn’t finish a thousand round batch primer error free is when I screw it up. It takes a little set up, polishing, etc, but nothing that nears rocket science. The press could use more leverage, only real shortcoming for me. 10’s of thousand of 9x19, 45acp, 308, 223, 38spl, 357, and only thing I have to say is, “what’s all the whining about?”
LCT, Pro1000, single stage classic, and all their associated equipment are great stuff, too. I much prefer Dillon but see no need to poo poo Lee. Lee works at a budget.
Have pre-ordered the Breech Lock Pro and am looking forward to getting my hands on it. Lots of good ideas on it. Would prefer auto priming. The priming system from the LCT works but you have to work it just so so. I wonder if the decision to use this priming system was mainly due to the inadequacies of the human interface?
someguy2800
Member
The square deal is not competitive with this in my opinion. I've looked at them in person and it looks like a good press but I'm not buying it because its too expensive for what it does for me and its not versatile enough for what I want. It will not use the dies I've already invested in and caliber conversions are $93. I like this pro4000 because it gives more options for dies and setup and because it gives better control over priming in my opinion albeit a manual process. I think if you loaded more pistol than I do it would probably be a good investment. I think a dillon is for the kind of people that buy a new truck every 3 years because they don't want to mess with it and a Lee is for the kind of person that drives a 10 year old truck because they are willing to slow down a bit and do some maintenance in order to save money. Neither are wrong. If i were going to spend $400 on a press I would get the Lee Loadmaster because then I could load large rifle on it too. I'm the 10 year old pickup kind of guy.
someguy2800
Member
And yes we are all making assumptions about how this will work but its not that complicated to figure out from the pictures. Us turret users already know what we think of the linkages and the priming system because they are nothing new. The case feeder is not new. So basically if it indexes properly and the threads don't strip out when you change shell plates I can't see what could go wrong here.
wally
Member
Bad analogy, my Dillons are over 10 years old, and they have replaced any broken parts during that time period for free after a simple phone call.
My first press was the old Lee 3-hole turret that I upgraded with the 4-hold conversion kit, and eventually replaced with a Lee Classic Turret which I still use for my low volume calibers. I may get the Auto Breech Lock press as a step up from the LCT as the price seems reasonable for the upgrade in production rate. Its all going to boil down the price of the breech lock bushings and shell plates, but I can do it incrementally. Less time pumping the press means more time for shooting or doing other things I enjoy.
The shell plates are $19 at Titan
https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-...ech-lock-pro/lee-breech-lock-pro-shell-plates
The bushings are $4.75 at Amazon w/free shipping
https://www.amazon.com/Lee-Prescion-90600-Bushings-Pack/dp/B00K398FZK
The bushing w/integral lock ring are $4.50 at Natchez
https://www.natchezss.com/lee-breec...hings-with-die-lock-ring-eliminator-2-ct.html
Which is a really cool idea by the way.
Jim Watson
Member
Geez, how much is one of these things going to cost by the time you have it accessorized to where it is as progressive as a Dillon or Hornady?
LiveLife
Member
The key is many users of Lee products already have these items so only cost that will be incurred are:
- $125 - Pro 4000 (Pre-order price from Titan Reloading)
- $19 - Shell plate
For existing users of Lee products (Single stage, Pro 1000 and Classic Turret), cost to migrate to Pro 4000/Breech Lock Pro would be very compelling. And there are A LOT of lee product users in USA and around the world (Likely more than all other brand presses combined).
someguy2800
Member
I didn’t mean a Dillon won’t last, the Dillons are a better built press with less fiddling. But you have to pay for that convenience
Last edited:
I'm not picking it apart, the XL650 case feeder costs a lot more, but it provides a real speed-up of the loading process. Having used the Loadmaster case feeder I'd do without, but if it really is only $18 to buy the option for the Auto Breech Lock Pro its not like its going to break the bank to find out if its worthwhile for your work flow or not. Despite the cost, I'd heartily recommend the case feeder for the XL650, YMMV.
I found shaking the collimator to load the tubes and having to rotate the tubes while reloading negated all the advantage it offered, if each tube held 100 cases I'd likely have a different opinion, but my was only something like 20 .40S&W cases which is what I had my Loadmaster dedicated to while I struggled with it. The Loasmaster as a press was great, if you don't prime on the press it is great. My goal is to only handle a case once for the loading cycle and the Loadmaster priming issues was a show stopper for me. I got a .40S&W "conversion kit" for my XL650, which cost darn near as much as the Loadmaster, and knocked out my 5K of .40S&W bullets in no time compared to all the futzing around I did with the Loadmaster Priming system.
I'm seriously considering the Auto Breech Lock as an upgrade to my LCT, the cost is very bearable, time is money, despite being retired
So this is what, the 3rd time you have harped on the Loadmaster case feeder in this thread, we've all read it...
Why not give it a rest for a while and only post when you have something else/new to add/bash.
You need to respect that others do things differently, and are interested in hearing about it,
check out my new signature...
Doublehelix
Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2016
- Messages
- 1,059
I would love to see a video of the case loader and bullet loader in action. Are we saying that they are the same as on the Pro1000?
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
