556 in Sako 85 223 Varmint. I say no, dealer says yes.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2084_2108/products_id/300011
This maybe what hes looking at, or something like it.

pretty much every listing i can find says .223 (5.56NATO)

That does not necessarily mean Sako, or Beretta, say its ok. That i couldnt find in a quick search.

Personally ive shot quite a bit of 556 federal ammo out of a bolt .223, while i wouldnt suggest anyone else do it, i would relate that in the thousand pluss rounds IVE fired i havent seen any indication of a problem.

People have been shooting 5.56 in 223 bolt actions for as long as 5.56 has existed.

No, Sako info dosent state its ok, just the sales listings. Might be worth a quick call tomorrow morning just to find out.

I've been using it in my 1970's vintage Sako Vixen HB for the past 45 years with no problems.

As a manufacturer, I would never chamber anything in 223 I want confident could handle 556. You just know some nitwit is going to do it thinking they are the same thing. I would not want the liability. So probably you're ok, but...........

It ain't gonna hurt a thing to shoot 5.56 in a 223 bolt gun. It won't hurt anything to shoot 5.56 in most semi-autos chambered in 223. You might have reliability issues in SOME semi's.

From owners manual

AMMUNITION
CAUTION! Make sure you have the correct caliber ammunition for this
firearm. Use only high quality, factory-loaded ammunition. The use of re-
loaded, hand-loaded, remanufactured or other non-standard ammunition
voids all warranties, and may cause severe damage to the firearm and se-
rious injury to the shooter or others. Improperly loaded ammunition can
be extremely dangerous. Always use ammunition that complies with In-
dustry Performance Standards established by the Sporting Arms and
Ammunition Manufacturers Institute, Inc. (SAAMI) or Commission Inter-
nationale Permanente pour l’Epreuve des Armes à Feu portatives (C.I.P.)
Do not use cartridges that are dirty, wet, corroded, dented or damaged. Do not
oil cartridges. Any of these things can make the ammunition dangerous, and
can cause damage to the firearm or injury to the shooter.

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Maximum pressure (SAAMI): 55,000 psi (380 MPa)

Maximum pressure (CIP): 62,366 psi (430.00 MPa)
For 223 Remington.

It has been said the pressures are measured by different methods.

SAAMI has a warming on there website, 5.56 vs 223.

There was NEVER any intention to have .223 and 5.56 be different rounds. It all boils down to confusion about how pressure is measured at CIP vs. SAAMI.

You will not have a problem shooting 5.56 out of any .223 bolt gun in working condition.

It isn't about pressure, it's about bullets.

There may be some difference in the chamber freebore length. It would be hard to tell what the mfg. chambered the rifle for. If the FBL for 5.56 was used for your .223 then it truly is capable of shooting any 5.56 ammo. The pressure issue shouldn't be a concern. If the barrel says it's .223 and not .223/5.56 I would be a little concerned about cramming military ammo in my .223 without knowing the bullet weight and dimensions. The standard 62 grain bullet that the military uses is longer than a lead core commercial .223 bullet. It's all about freebore and bullet length. Note the Rem Match and Wylde .223 chambers. Longer freebore for longer (heavier) bullets. M193 ammo (original) used 55 grain bullets and the most common .223 bullet in commercial use is 55 grain. Neither of my Howa's mention 5.56 so I think they are normal .223 chambers. As such the heaviest bullets I will use are 55 grains.

Take a factory Nato military round, place in a 223 Remington chamber, pull the trigger. Use a pull cord attached to trigger.

This will answer the question and put an end to this age old dilemma . Do take a block of wood to the range to beat the bolt open, if needed.

At your own risk, of course.

1) buy the rifle and only fire .223 through it--while firing a .223 using a 5.56 lede is supposed to cause decreased accuracy--rifles are individuals and may not duplicate that theory. You can always fire a .223 in a 5.56 but not necessarily vice versa due to the difference in seen above on Coaltrain49's chart. .223 is widely available and usually at about the same price as 5.56.

2) call/fax/email SAKO before buying the rifle and they should be able to address your ammo question-if you speak to the right person rather than the marketing folks. You might also be able to get ahold of the manual for that particular rifle online buried somewhere on the factory websight.

3) buy something else where you know what you can fire.

4) Last, if you buy the rifle, and if you cannot find the information elsewhere, do a chamber and throat cast using Cerrosafe--easy cheap and safe to do at the house. Then using a set of digital calipers or appropriate micrometer, measure the resulting cast and compare with the above list that CoalTrain49 so kindly provided. On an unknown chamber and throat, chamber casts provide a measurement of your rifle's chamber rather than some generic information. It can also disclose problems with such if you are buying a used rifle.

FWIW, I am reposting the Lucky Gunner's comparison between .223 and 5.56 used in actual field conditions.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/

Very long, very detailed, and with actual data from firearms regarding pressure levels. tec.

Llama Bob said:

You will not have a problem shooting 5.56 out of any .223 bolt gun in working condition.

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Then why do some rifle manufacturers tell you not to do it?

Clue. They know how their rifles are chambered. If they had chambered those rifles for 5.56 NATO or .223 Service Rifle they would have made that clear. Howa tells you not to mix the ammo.

Look at a Hornady manual sometime and see the bullet weights they push for .223 and 5.56. .223 goes from 35 gr. to 60 gr. and 5.56 NATO goes from 55 gr. to 80 gr.

This is one of those questions that sparks arguments.... Why? Because both sides are arguably right to some degree. Many people fire 5.56 in 223 rifles with no problems. But, technically speaking, you shouldn't because max pressure and chamber dimensions are different and if the right (or wrong) combinations of variables come together you could have problems.

I would say that if you are going to use 5.56 in a 223, stick with the lighter 55 and 62 gr bullets because of the .223's shorter freebore. Also, if you handload, remember if you're loading for a 5.56 those loads might be hotter in a .223 with less freebore and of course bullets must be seated deeper as well...

I think the biggest thing is understanding what the differences between 5.56 and 223 are and working within the limits they create..

Easiest solution to this problem is for manufacturers to stop cutting useless idiotic .223 Remington chambers in anything.

A good barrel with a 5.56X45 NATO chamber can still turn in very good accuracy, you really don’t give up much in the accuracy department. You gain reliability, and versatility of ammo by going to 5.56 chamber specs.

If I were king I’d decree that .223 Remington chamber reamers all be shelved for anything but custom orders, and insist that all barrels get proper 5.56 NATO chambers with a 1:8 or 1:7 twist.

Problem solved! I will await my Nobel prize.

Easiest solution to this problem is for manufacturers to stop cutting useless idiotic .223 Remington chambers in anything.

Click to expand...

all barrels get proper 5.56 NATO chambers with a 1:8 or 1:7 twist.

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No thanks.. I'll keep my .223 chamber... I don't want a lot of freebore or a 1/7 twist

You gain reliability

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How do you figure that?

Problem solved! I will await my Nobel prize.

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Ha ha keep waiting...

In a semiautomatic or fully automatic weapon the NATO chamber is more reliable than a commercial .223 chamber. If your rifle is going to be run hot, dirty, and in adverse conditions the NATO spec chamber is your friend. Don’t just take my word for it, consider that the largest operators of 5.56 NATO rifles/carbines seem to be pretty set on it as an actual specification. Probably because having rifles and carbines (not to mention light MG’s) that feed, fire, extract, eject, and feed again as reliably as possible are pretty handy. Much more so than a temperamental range play toy with a tight chamber. The gun needs to work first and foremost.

I personally see no issue with free bore. Currently I own 4 carbines or rifles with 5.56 NATO chambers, and all of them shoot quite well even with the free bore inherent in the NATO chamber. Light weight 55gr bullets pose no problem even in the faster twist these barrels run. My 3 most shot are a Colt, and 2 Daniel Defense barrels, all 3 have turned in enough sub MOA groups with 55gr up to 77gr bullets that I don’t think it’s a fluke at this point. The 4th example, a Knight’s Armament SR-15, hasn’t been evaluated as carefully yet since I just got it, but shows some promise even with inexpensive 75gr Hornady Steel Match and a 1-4X24 for optics. Heck, it’s a hammer forged chrome lined lightweight barrel too and the dang thing appears to be a shooter.

I understand the reluctance of some to embrace my reasoning, and 15-20 years ago I’d have agreed. A decade or two ago a production rack grade 5.56mm NATO chambered barrel with a 1:7 twist would probably not perform as well as a production rack grade .223 Remington chambered barrel with a slower twist rate. Particularly if the NATO barrel were chrome lined. However, times change and so does technology. Bullet technology is better, so these days modern bullets of lighter weight do just fine in faster twist barrels, likewise many of these newer bullets don’t seem to be negatively affected by freebore very much. Barrels are also a lot better, 17 years of conflict and lots of .mil orders have pumped a bunch of $$$ into small arms technology. Current mil spec chrome lined barrels are so much better now than 15-20 years ago in the accuracy department that it boggles the mind. Be they hammer forged, or button broached the barrel making world has figured out how to produce barrels out of tough CMV 4150 with NATO chambers, chrome line them and still have them shoot very very well. Maybe it’s tighter QC, better stress relief, more refined chrome lining processes, or all of the above. Either way the results are pretty awesome for all of us.

So that is why I think the industry should just cut NATO chambers for most of these rifles regardless of action type. You give up very very little practical accuracy but gain in other areas significantly.

Coal Dragger, your ideal is different from my ideal... Lots of guns with military applications have looser chambers to make them run better filthy dirty but I don't drag my .223 target rifle around in the mud or shoot it until it's too hot to touch. So, I'd rather have the slightly better accuracy from a tighter chamber. I have zero reliability problems now so the same rifle in 5.56 isn't going to improve that.. Same goes for the freebore and the 1/7... I'm not shooting tracers or 80-90gr bullets. I don't want a target rifle that spins the bullet any faster then it needs to be spun to stabilize... I have several 5.56 ARs with 1/7...so I am familiar with it.. But I don't want a bolt action with the same stats.. JMO

It’s been beaten into my head for too long that you aren’t supposed to shoot 5.56 in a .223 chambered rifle. I’m sure I’d do it in a pinch though because I don’t believe 5.56 ammo is going to blow up a .223 chambered rifle.

The issue is moot to me anyway because in my experience 5.56 ammo is less accurate than .223. In a bolt action I want the more accurate ammunition. Different story for plinking with an AR.

OP, if you talk to Beretta/Sako please let us know post haste what they say, I’m really curious..

Bushpilot said:

No thanks.. I'll keep my .223 chamber... I don't want a lot of freebore or a 1/7 twist

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I don't want a 1/7 twist either. Both of my bolt rifles have 1/9 which is why I bought them. 1/7 is great for an AR and heavier bullets. I don't shoot those and have no desire to start. I want the accuracy that comes from a tight chamber. If I wanted to shoot 5.56 NATO ammo I would have bought a rifle that was chambered for it. Lots of people buy an AR, shoot 55 gr. ammo in it and can't figure out why the accuracy is in the toilet. Then they start looking for cheap 75 gr ammo and find out that it's darn expensive because most of it is match ammo.

Coal Dragger said:

Easiest solution to this problem is for manufacturers to stop cutting useless idiotic .223 Remington chambers in anything.

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I don't know if any AR mfg's even make a .223 barrel. Everyone I've ever seen was 5.56 NATO. People who shoot .223 bolt rifles are mostly varmint hunters or benchrest shooters. They would disagree with your statement that the .223 is useless. I find mine to be extremely accurate. I don't see many AR shooters going out past 100 yards. When they do they always come back.

Funny Coal Train all my 1:7’s shoot 55gr fodder quite well. Have you actually tried to run 1:7 barrel with quality 55gr ammo? Works fine.

Coal Dragger said:

Funny Coal Train all my 1:7’s shoot 55gr fodder quite well. Have you actually tried to run 1:7 barrel with quality 55gr ammo? Works fine.

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I don't have an AR. My buddy has a Daniel Defense and I've shot it with 55 gr ammo. Actually I was using my 55 gr ammo that shoots 1 MOA in my rifle. No luck. I tried some of his factory 55 gr. ammo. no luck. It shoots 70 match ammo pretty well but not as good as my .223 with my ammo. That's expensive ammo and most people don't carry it around here.

I have to clarify that I don't consider a rifle to be a good shooter if it can't do 1 MOA. That's a bit tight for most shooters but that's how I roll.

Just my experience, yours might be different. All good.